GM was also a big help keeping the economy going after 9/11 too. They were the first with 0% loans.
United Auto Workers Union
- Thread starter JimFitz
- Start date
S. C.
The mitten state
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This IS the year 2008. You are talking about 30 yrs ago.
Thank you for posting this. American Auto workers DO turn out wonderful QUALITY vehicles. People need to put the bad autos from YEARS PAST behind them and do there homework on what is out there now.
I agree 100% !
WAS is the key word here. Most Auto workers now have team concept, meaning... every job is EVERYONES job.
So very true!
Family Fun Mom
<font color=green>No longer tagless... my wit has
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Poor management killed the auto industry. Lack of vision and stupid policies. Oh yeah. And WAY overpaying their top executives while insisting they had "no money" to pay workers (who were portrayed as greedy).
Do you realize that there are "workers" that make upwards of $100,000 a year on the assembly line? My BIL made that kind of money for an unskilled position. He had to take a massive pay cut when he joined the engineer program. It's nuts.
This is very nice.
However, contributing 12 million dollars really has nothing to do with the fact that these businesses have been terribly managed.
The fact that they contributed 0.00024% of what they're asking for now, well, it doesn't matter. GM alone lost 50 Billion in 3 years, and 2 of those years....gas prices were low and credit was flowing like crazy. Still, they lost money.
We should simply send paychecks to the auto workers and the workers at the supply companies......because that's what this 50 billion is for....simply providing paychecks to companies that can't figure out a way to make money.
S. C.
The mitten state
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S. C.
The mitten state
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Perhaps in your area they make $14.50 an hour. Kentucky has 2 Ford plants in Louisville, a Toyota Plant in Georgetown, the Corvette Plant in Bowling Green, & a slew of contract plants/subcontract plants to the auto industry.
The Ford, Gm, & Toyota Plants are all union. Their employees start in at over $20 an hour working on the line, unskilled labor. They have the second best benefits in the state, following only behind UPS. Ford assembly line workers (and their immediate family members) automatically qualify for the A-1 plan to buy an auto at a substantially discounted rate.
The contract plants/subcontract plants are generally not union, in our area. The union demands would (and have) bankrupt those that were. Their employees have basic benefits, make $9 an hour to start...the same as most manufacturing jobs in our area.
As for job difficulty...well, I worked as a part-timer temp in one of the subcontract plants (extra Disney money). The most difficult thing about my job was the extreme boredom of doing the exact same mundane task over, and over, and over for an 8 hour shift. I got lunch. I got 2 breaks a day. Didn't get benefits because I was a temp. I made $8 an hour to walk up to a frame, lay a bracket on the frame, and put two bolts down through the bracket and into the frame. Walk back behind the yellow line and hit a button. NOT exactly rocket science. Not difficult or hard labor by any means.
A job at Ford, GM, or Toyota used to be one of the most envied jobs in our area simply because of the pay, awesome benefits, and the ease of work.
It was also one of the hardest to get because of the amount of nepotism that went on in the hiring process. 18 yr. old kids first job no experience being hired in because of who they were related to instead of the person who had yrs. of manufacturing experience.
Granted, Michigan has a much higher cost of living and taxes than Kentucky...so the dollar doesn't go as far.
JimFitz
<font color=deeppink>possum chauffeur<br><font col
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Hope your coffee tastes good.
I am speaking about personal experience in the last 5 years. No one in my family, or friends for that matter, will buy American cars at this point.....it's kind of sad.
Town and Country Minivans with an engine that seized.
Yukons that basically fell apart, knobs....windows....door handles.
Caddy's have been reliable.....but thats one model out of MANY U.S. cars.
I don't know what the solution is. I think that when business was good, the unions rattled their swords and the auto industry jumped. I don't think that they ever envisioned that eventually they would be buried under the burgeoning entitlement/retirement programs that they created for their workers or the generous pay that they get for sitting on site when they are not actually working. With the open ballot that the democrats and Obama promise to push through, workers will not be able to vote privately for or against a union. There have been hospitals in our area that are unionized. I think that they have actually not done as well for their employees as the non union hospitals. Too often the union is about themselves and not about the workers anyway.
DisMN
DIS Veteran
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- Dec 15, 1999
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- 5,322
Two huge points of contention here. The Big Huge $20 an hour is PROBABLY with all benefits in consideration. I've lived with this misconception for over 30 years and it gets real old hearing about how "rich" we are for "unskilled labor". Gimme a break.
And that "substantial discount" you speak of is no more than a $500-1000 rebate that MOST people get anyway from their local dealer (it can be more IF you buy a more expensive car, although *they* tell us it's not a percent discount but it sure seems that way LOL). This discount is not what you say it is so please do some research before you start telling people it's such a good deal. I know many people who get better rebates at the dealer and they pass on the "substantial discount" you so highly speak of. Geez......
DisMN
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Oh boy do I agree with that. But I really don't know how a company goes about getting rid of their unions........can it be done?
S. C.
The mitten state
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My coffee does taste good. Thank You!
And for every American Auto that has had problems I could point out tons of Japan and Import autos and other items that have been junk. If only i had the time.
Look at the facts... American Auto companies turn out Good Quality Products.
Bottom line is there are always going to be quality problems in ALL lines of work everywhere that SLIPS by now and then.
I completely agree that the American Auto industry turns out good cars. I have bought mostly American cars over the years. We are on our second Ford Explorer. The first one had 250K when it finally died. I have a CTS which I love. I absolutely LOVED MY Chrysler 300M with 170K. The Grand Prix lived to about the same mileage. DS#1 has a Nissan Maxima. It hasn't been any more dependable than any American car that we have had and the parts and repairs cost a heck of a lot more. DS#3 has an Nissan Altima. It was the 1.9% financing and the buyer incentives that cinched the deal for him and DH and I wanted a sports car, so the leftover 2007, 6 speed Nissan 350Z convertible with more than a 25% price reduction made that car attractive. My next car could easily be American. I think that there is a myth that foreign cars are perfect and American cars are junk. Nothing could be further from the truth.
jodifla
WDW lover since 1972
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New contracts kick in next year for the UAW, cutting the hourly rate to 14.50 for new jobs. That was part of the deal to put them back into the black.
Problem is, right after the contract, first came the gas crisis, slowing sales. Then came the credit crisis and stockmarket crash, basically stopping sales. Very few industries could survive that no sales. Even Toyota and Honda are reeling.
If you drive around Oakland County, a suburb of Detroit where many auto execs live, you'll see astonishing home after astonishing home. Really, I've never seen the amount of wealth in one area like that. South Florida has it's McMansion subdivisions, but this is city after city stocked with really nice homes.
Now, these aren't the UAW workers' homes. These are the white collar workers homes. If you haven't been to Michigan, it's truly hard to imagine how big these three companies are, and how many people they employ.
ANYWAY, we can argue the merits of helping out the auto industry all day, but here's the thing. THE GOVERNMENT WON'T LET THEM FAIL. Actually, it CAN'T let them fail.
It's a Homeland Security Issue. We need the car companies, we need the steel industry in case of war.
Problem is, right after the contract, first came the gas crisis, slowing sales. Then came the credit crisis and stockmarket crash, basically stopping sales. Very few industries could survive that no sales. Even Toyota and Honda are reeling.
If you drive around Oakland County, a suburb of Detroit where many auto execs live, you'll see astonishing home after astonishing home. Really, I've never seen the amount of wealth in one area like that. South Florida has it's McMansion subdivisions, but this is city after city stocked with really nice homes.
Now, these aren't the UAW workers' homes. These are the white collar workers homes. If you haven't been to Michigan, it's truly hard to imagine how big these three companies are, and how many people they employ.
ANYWAY, we can argue the merits of helping out the auto industry all day, but here's the thing. THE GOVERNMENT WON'T LET THEM FAIL. Actually, it CAN'T let them fail.
It's a Homeland Security Issue. We need the car companies, we need the steel industry in case of war.
DisMN
DIS Veteran
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There is certainly truth to that. The union negotiated on behalf of workers. Many of these workers retired with the promise of a full pension, health care insurance, etc. That was the deal. That was the promise. That promise NEEDS to be kept and that is the bottom line.
Colleen27
DIS Legend
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- 24,187
Yeah, those damned greedy unions, thinking that people who work physically demanding jobs for 40+ hours/week should be able to support their families! If only the American worker would accept the 50 cents an hour his third-world counterpart will work for, our economy wouldn't be in this mess. @@
The downfall of the auto industry and American manufacturing in general wasn't unions. It was government and our lack of universal health care. When companies here have to pay costs that governments elsewhere pay, they cannot remain competitive.
The downfall of the auto industry and American manufacturing in general wasn't unions. It was government and our lack of universal health care. When companies here have to pay costs that governments elsewhere pay, they cannot remain competitive.
If only the government would pay our health care, our retirement, provide decent housing, transportation and a $100K per year. Its only fair.
My brother started working for Chrysler 14 years ago at age 19. He started at $20/hour working on the line and he belonged to the Union. It was way more money that he was worth just like the janitor who make 80K.
Colleen27
DIS Legend
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No better way to avoid addressing a legitimate point than to take it to an absurd extreme.
The effects of our system of employer-funded benefits are well documented. Companies cannot compete with foreign companies because they bear costs that the competition doesn't, and wages stagnate for the American worker. As health care costs have continued to spiral upwards, companies that do provide benefits are increasingly unable to afford to continue to do so. And when the economy slows, our companies are in a position of having higher costs at a time of lower revenues, and are thus less able to ride out a recession.
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