Union may file a greivance against an Eagle Scout for taking their jobs* WITH AUDIO

[NHdisneylover]

Staying out of the main argument because there is just not enough information in that poorly written article to form an opinion. However:


HOBBY--An activity or interest pursued outside one's regular occupation and engaged in primarily for pleasure

It has nothing to do with putting food on the table (some hobbies do that as shrubber pointed out) OR with the values it builds (many hobbies build good values).

scouting may or may not be many things--but unless you are one of a few paid employees of BSA then yes, if you participate in socuting you do it as a hobby.

 

[shrubber]

Staying out of the main argument because there is just not enough information in that poorly written article to form an opinion. However:


HOBBY--An activity or interest pursued outside one's regular occupation and engaged in primarily for pleasure

It has nothing to do with putting food on the table (some hobbies do that as shrubber pointed out) OR with the values it builds (many hobbies build good values).

scouting may or may not be many things--but unless you are one of a few paid employees of BSA then yes, if you participate in socuting you do it as a hobby.

I suppose all those people going to Church on Sunday are just having fun with their hobby, huh?

 

[NHdisneylover]

I suppose all those people going to Church on Sunday are just having fun with their hobby, huh?

If they are going "primarily for pleasure" and not out of a sense of moral duty to their children or God or whatnot, yeah I guess so. It can still be pleasurable and not be a hobby.

I think hobbies can be very rewarding and important. I am not sure why it is a BAD thing that scouting is a hobby

 

[shrubber]

If they are going "primarily for pleasure" and not out of a sense of moral duty to their children or God or whatnot, yeah I guess so. It can still be pleasurable and not be a hobby.

I think hobbies can be very rewarding and important. I am not sure why it is a BAD thing that scouting is a hobby

I doubt that many if any of the 4 million Scouts would consider it a hobby.
Scouting is a Value based development program. It builds character, teaches responsibilty, leadership, citizenship and physical fitness.

For some reason, rather than discuss the issue at hand, how a Union boss says that there will be no volunteers and is going to look into the Scouts who did this, you have attempted to sidetrack the conversation and I believe diminish the role of community service in scouting to just a hobby.

 

[Geoff_M]

HOBBY--An activity or interest pursued outside one's regular occupation and engaged in primarily for pleasure

It has nothing to do with putting food on the table (some hobbies do that as shrubber pointed out) OR with the values it builds (many hobbies build good values).

scouting may or may not be many things--but unless you are one of a few paid employees of BSA then yes, if you participate in socuting you do it as a hobby.

Yes, under that very broad definition, you are correct... Likewise, my and my wife's rising of our children would also be classified as a "hobby". We didn't have them by accident and we thought/think having them would be/is an enjoyable experience.

As for "what's wrong" is Scouting being called a "hobby", the problem is that people like to incorrectly pigeonhole it as such when it's so much more than just "a hobby". There's a misconception that Scouting continually has to fight that it's just "a camping club".

On another note unrelated to PP quoted, it's fascinating to see how political debate has been transformed on the DIS.

Some may see it that way, but I don't. This was the knuckle-headed actions of a local official of the union and the hierarchy of the union has correctly repudiated the local president's threats and confirmed that he was totally out of line and acted inappropriately. In essence, the union's management confirmed that he was acting like a local bully. It's kinda hard to try and make this a "pro" vs. "anti" union issue when the union has backed the Scout.

As for my hammer anecdote, it was merely to address the comment about the ease at which the rank-and-file and be stirred up over work rules.

 

[Disney Doll]

This is why I think the whole "union" concept is an outdated one and they cause more problems than they fix.

I can recall a few years back getting all kinds of mailings from a nurses union explaining to me how they could "help" me earn more $$$...maybe I could make up to $35/hour!!!!!! The problem was, I was already earning more than $35/hour...

I don't care for unions.

 

[It'sWDW4me]

If they are going "primarily for pleasure" and not out of a sense of moral duty to their children or God or whatnot, yeah I guess so. It can still be pleasurable and not be a hobby.

I think hobbies can be very rewarding and important. I am not sure why it is a BAD thing that scouting is a hobby

No, hobbies are definitely not a bad thing. I totalley enjoy my hobbies - cross stitch; jigsaw puzzles; sudoku to name a few. They're very enjoyable hobbies to me but there's little to no real value to them. I could, theoretically, make a few bucks by selling my creations and maybe my mind is a bit sharper with numbers and with space/shape recognition but, as a whole, the world is not a markedly better/safer place because I engage in and enjoy my hobbies.

Scouting (boy or girl) really is so much more than a hobby. These kids are learning skills during a time in their lives that shape the adult they will become. Cooking, gardening, and others were previously mentioned. How about earning merit badges in American Cultures; American Heritage; Personal Management (focus on financial management); Automotive Maintenance; Citizenship in the Community; Citizenship in the Nation; Citizenship in the World; Dentistry; Disability Awareness; Communications (written as well as audio/visual); Engineering; Environmental Science; Home Repairs; Landscape Architecture; Law; Metalwork..... Oh I can go on and on. All done in conjunction with an underlying base of environmental conservation; personal accountablity; and social responsibilities.

Yes, Scouting DOES put food on the table by giving these young men a taste of what could be a future for them. Did he really like working on that Dentistry merit badge? He could very well earn a college degree in dentistry thus land a good-paying job so he can support his future family. How about Metalwork? Landscape Architecture? Automotive Maintenance? He goes to trade school and does well thus landing a good-paying job so he can support his future family. Maybe he really enjoyed Citizenship in the Nation and now aspires to become President.

I see a hobby as nothing more than an enjoyable pass-time.

 

[shrubber]

Here is a picture of just some of the things that the SEIU said were not to picked up by other than Union workers.............

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,575650,00.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foxnews%2Flatest+(FOXNews.com+-+Latest+Headlines)

 

[NHdisneylover]

I doubt that many if any of the 4 million Scouts would consider it a hobby.
Scouting is a Value based development program. It builds character, teaches responsibilty, leadership, citizenship and physical fitness.

For some reason, rather than discuss the issue at hand, how a Union boss says that there will be no volunteers and is going to look into the Scouts who did this, you have attempted to sidetrack the conversation and I believe diminish the role of community service in scouting to just a hobby.

If it appears I am trying to derail the converstion, I apologize This was not my intent at all. Actually it seemed to me that you were significantly reweakening your credibility by stubornly insisting scouting is not a hobby. The English major in me (yeah, I know you'd never guess based on all my typos) just couldn't stand to see the word keep getting misdefinef over and over again.

As I said beofre, I did not feel this article had nearly enough information for me to form an opinion. If you want my opinion of US Unions in general I will say that often they are very much needed and do protect workers from corupt practices. Unfortunately, just as often they let the power they have go to their head and they cause a myriad of problems for not only management but also, at times, for their own members. I wishe we could get the good without the bad--and we should be able to, but I have not seen it work that way in my lifetime.

Full disclosure on unions--my mom was union CWA; she felt much like I do. My dad has never been union, nor has my husband--which has mostly been management. I think the year I taught I was in the teacher's union because you had to be--which I don't like telling anyone they have to be to have the job--but I don't really remember.

Full disclosure on scouts--I was a girl scout (still am, a life time member actually). I led troops for 8 years (including troops my own child was not in). I would still be leading them if they needed me to do so here. My DD has been a scout since first grade (she is in 8th grade now) and has every intention of going through the entire program and earning her gold award. I have been a counselor at two scouting summer camps for a number of years as well. Scouting is a big part of my life and my DD's life. It is a HOBBY we love, one we get a lot out of, one that has helped instill great values in my DD and her friends and many girls througout the country (and helped instill values in me as a girl). My son is not now, nor has he ever been a boy scout. He will not be a boy scout. We believe the organization does many wonderful things, but those things are overshadow FOR OUR FAMILY by certain other aspects of the program with which we vehemently disagree. I believe most scouts are excellent young people (both boy and girl scouts)

Is someone asked your son to tell us his name, age and three hobbies would he not list scouts?

 

[shrubber]

My son is not now, nor has he ever been a boy scout. He will not be a boy scout. We believe the organization does many wonderful things, but those things are overshadow FOR OUR FAMILY by certain other aspects of the program with which we vehemently disagree. I believe most scouts are excellent young people (both boy and girl scouts)

Well,
that explains a lot.......

 

[NHdisneylover]

Well,
that explains a lot.......

as to whether or not I feel scouting is a hobby? It shouldn't--but I put it out there in the interests of full disclosure anyway. I am honest that way.
Actually, I think it has no bearing on how I would view this case. This case is not about scouts as an organization. This seems to be an issue between a city govenrment and a union and, once again I do not see enough information to form an opinion one way or the other. It jsut happens that part of the issue involvs a teen boyscout who did a good thing and worked hard and now, there is fallout from that which I doubt has anything to do with him (or scouts) at all. I don't think everything a union does is automatically bad. Nor everything a city governement does. Nor everything a scout does.

 

[OceanAnnie]

If the workers had been doing their jobs properly, it wouldn't have taken 200 hours to clean it up!

That was my first thought too! Now that it's cleaned up it was "their job" to do?

 

[shrubber]

as to whether or not I feel scouting is a hobby? It shouldn't--but I put it out there in the interests of full disclosure anyway. I am honest that way.
Actually, I think it has no bearing on how I would view this case. .

No, the fact that ther are aspects of the program with which we vehemently disagree. explains a lot of the comments you have made.

 

[NHdisneylover]

No, the fact that ther are aspects of the program with which we vehemently disagree. explains a lot of the comments you have made.

what comment (other than that one) did I make about scouting other than it is a hobby (and hobbies are not bad things?) I am quite capable of understanding that just becuase the parent organization of a group does some things I do not like does not mean the group is always bad or wrong or that everyone in that group even feels the same wasy as the leadership.

 

[Geoff_M]

Is someone asked your son to tell us his name, age and three hobbies would he not list scouts?

Actually, I don't list it under hobbies when asked. I honestly don't mentally think of it as such. I wouldn't list my involvement in Scouting under "Hobbies" any more than "going to church" or "volunteering with Little League". Instead, these things pop to mind when I'm asked about my "Interests" or "Community Activities".

 

[shrubber]

odd, try as I might, I can't think of anything so casually called a hobby that I vehemently disagree with.

 

[FireDancer]

No, the fact that ther are aspects of the program with which we vehemently disagree. explains a lot of the comments you have made.

I don't see the comments that NHDisneyLover made as negative or disparaging to scouting if you are talking about it as a hobby. Depending on how broadly or narrowly you define hobby she could be right or wrong.

I would probably say that it is a hobby in a sense. I volunteer with the American Cancer Society and could see how my volunteering can be seen as a hobby. I don't think she meant that it was as shallow as stamp collecting just because both can be considered hobbies.

I think the scouting program is great and teaches kids a lot. It makes for better, well rounded individuals. To classify it as a hobby doesn't take away from that.

I run and while it is hard work and requires dedication I would consider it a hobby also. There are other runners that would cringe at that description and expound on how it is a commitment to health and dedication and ... I agree, but that doesn't mean it is also not a hobby.

Perhaps the connotation of hobby that you hold differs than the connotation NHDisneyLover has. I don't think she was knocking the scouts.

Now, back to slagging on unions.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Actually, I don't list it under hobbies when asked. I honestly don't mentally think of it as such. I wouldn't list my involvement in Scouting under "Hobbies" any more than "going to church" or "volunteering with Little League". Instead, these things pop to mind when I'm asked about my "Interests" or "Community Activities".

The only difference I see between a hobby and an interest is that you do not always participate in an interest but you do have to be a participant for it to be a hobby.

They are considered synonyms (here is the firstr of many such pages that popped up on a google search :
http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/interest

Main Entry: interest
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: attraction, curiosity
Synonyms: absorption, activity, affection, attentiveness, care, case, concern, concernment, consequence, diversion, engrossment, enthusiasm, excitement, game, hobby, importance, interestedness, into, leisure activity, matter, moment, note, notice, passion, pastime, preoccupation, pursuit, racket, recreation, regard, relaxation, relevance, significance, sport, suspicion, sympathy, thing

Community Activities is a little different and I can see that also applying to scouting--thought often scouting does reach beyond the local community (BTW I love that scouting--that it is involved on both a local and national level).

It boils down to a silly argument of semantics--which I will be happy to bow out of, though I am still waiting to see what scrubber thinks I said to misalign scouts, so as not to further derail this thread:

I think the definition of hobby includes scouts. I do not think this in any way devalues scouting. I think hobbys can be noble and highly valuable pursuits.

You and scrubber (and likely others not trying to pick on anyone) think hobbies must be menial and pointless activites and calling scouting a hobby is in some fashion insulting it.

I have looked around a bit online now and have not found any definitions of hobby which imply that it must be something with little or no meaning or value

 

[NHdisneylover]

odd, try as I might, I can't think of anything so casually called a hobby that I vehemently disagree with.

I can come up with a few (organizations which run programs people participate in as hobbies) I guess I am critical that way. Even then, I do not have any issue with others being in scouts--I vehemently disagree with polices not individual scouts.

I don't see the comments that NHDisneyLover made as negative or disparaging to scouting if you are talking about it as a hobby. Depending on how broadly or narrowly you define hobby she could be right or wrong.

I would probably say that it is a hobby in a sense. I volunteer with the American Cancer Society and could see how my volunteering can be seen as a hobby. I don't think she meant that it was as shallow as stamp collecting just because both can be considered hobbies.

I think the scouting program is great and teaches kids a lot. It makes for better, well rounded individuals. To classify it as a hobby doesn't take away from that.

I run and while it is hard work and requires dedication I would consider it a hobby also. There are other runners that would cringe at that description and expound on how it is a commitment to health and dedication and ... I agree, but that doesn't mean it is also not a hobby.

Perhaps the connotation of hobby that you hold differs than the connotation NHDisneyLover has. I don't think she was knocking the scouts.

Now, back to slagging on unions.

Thank you for understanding. And yes, I would call your running and volunteering hobbies great and valuable hobbies (much like scouts).

 

[shrubber]

The only difference I see between a hobby and an interest is that you do not always participate in an interest but you do have to be a participant for it to be a hobby.

They are considered synonyms (here is the firstr of many such pages that popped up on a google search :
http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/interest

Main Entry: interest
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: attraction, curiosity
Synonyms: absorption, activity, affection, attentiveness, care, case, concern, concernment, consequence, diversion, engrossment, enthusiasm, excitement, game, hobby, importance, interestedness, into, leisure activity, matter, moment, note, notice, passion, pastime, preoccupation, pursuit, racket, recreation, regard, relaxation, relevance, significance, sport, suspicion, sympathy, thing

Community Activities is a little different and I can see that also applying to scouting--thought often scouting does reach beyond the local community (BTW I love that scouting--that it is involved on both a local and national level).

It boils down to a silly argument of semantics--which I will be happy to bow out of, though I am still waiting to see what scrubber thinks I said to misalign scouts, so as not to further derail this thread:

I think the definition of hobby includes scouts. I do not think this in any way devalues scouting. I think hobbys can be noble and highly valuable pursuits.

You and scrubber (and likely others not trying to pick on anyone) think hobbies must be menial and pointless activites and calling scouting a hobby is in some fashion insulting it.

I have looked around a bit online now and have not found any definitions of hobby which imply that it must be something with little or no meaning or value

odd that you did not share the synonyms for Hobby from the same website....

Main Entry: hobby
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: pleasurable pastime
Synonyms: amusement, art, avocation, bag*, craft, craze, distraction, diversion, divertissement, fad*, fancy, favorite occupation, fun, game, interest, kick*, labor of love, leisure activity, leisure pursuit, obsession, occupation, pet topic, play, quest, relaxation, schtick, shot, sideline, specialty, sport, thing*, vagary, weakness, whim, whimsy
Antonyms: profession, vocation, work

you chose interest...ok.

I think that by calling scouting a hobby you trivialize it, like a fad, leisure pursuit, a whimsy or any of the other synonyms listed above.
I also think that since you vehemently disagree with aspects of the program, you trivialize it on purpose.