Unfathomable: Church Massacre

[MarcW]

I think the PP was being a bit tongue in cheek here. When a black youth commits a crime, people feel very free to speculate about his parenting and what he might have learned from his "community." But, when a white youth commits a crime, we need to wait before we speculate. Interesting. People are not born hating. They LEARN to hate. From somewhere, or someone. While I may not know "who" in this young man's community or family taught him that hate was ok, someone or something did. Maybe he listened to the never ending drivel on far right wing radio? Maybe he read right wing manifestos. Maybe he perused hate sites on the internet. But, he didn't wake up one day and decide to hate all black people out of thin air.
Racism is a learned behavior. Not innate. And, if it's learned it can be unlearned.

My father was a racist, and liberally used the "n" word when I was growing up. It's what I knew. But, when we grow up, we can learn to do better or we can give in to hatred.

I wonder what you think you mean by right wing? Most white supremacy groups are socialist. The KKK was socialist,the national socialist movement is a white supremist group etc... I think you are confused when you equate people who want limited government and free markets with white supremacy.

 

[delyrium]

That Esquire quote is absolutely spot on.

 

[delyrium]

I wonder what you think you mean by right wing? Most white supremacy groups are socialist. The KKK was socialist,the national socialist movement is a white supremist group etc... I think you are confused when you equate people who want limited government and free markets with white supremacy.

Those talking points are familiar to me. And also beside the point.

 

[MarcW]

Those talking points are familiar to me. And also beside the point.

How are they beside the point? If you are saying "right wing" political beliefs are inherently racist you need to back up your claim or quantify it.

White supremist groups are mainly socialist. They want protectionist policies reserved for whites.

Supporting any type of rights for ALL citizens can not be racist. So I don't understand how limited government proponents are racists.

I am confused as to your belief system on this matter. Please enlighten me.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I'm going to say again, if the shooter had been black and/or Muslim, no one would be saying "maybe he's just mentally ill." Seriously. Certain segments of posters here would be screaming from the rooftops about terrorism.

Anyone of any color or religion targeting any group in this manner is nothing but a sick son of a *****. Maybe or maybe not "mentally ill", but certainly not right in the head - even if sane & of clear mind.

That his victims were chosen for their race is horrific, but really no more or less horrific than any other reason he might have chosen.

His victims were black. Far, FAR more important is that they were people, and undeserving of his wrath.

 

[TLSnell1981]

“Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.”

―Martin Luther King Jr.

 

[MarcW]

Thank you. This was a reply to TLSnell, don't know why it didn't link.

 

[okeydokey]

Again, I may hear/see people disparaging him but I do NOT hear his race being involved int he discussion.

Now, if I frequented white supremacist sites, I am sure that I would hear that stuff, but as I do not go to those sites, I guess I miss it. I think drumming up the thought of white supremacy on the rise because of a black President is just as bad as drumming up all blacks are bad because of the riots we've had recently. Both are narratives that a SMALL group like to drum up and keep loudly drumming. Problem is, as they say, if you say it long and loud enough people start to believe it. So, we need to not be repeating that crap and work to prove the opposite is true.

You don't have to frequent white supremacist sites. Read the comments under any article about him online. They are hateful and racist.

 

[disneyjunkie]

http://www.abcnews4.com/story/29353792/suspect-in-church-shooting-had-apartheid-era-patches

"The increase has been driven by a backlash to the country's increasing racial diversity, an increase symbolized for many by the presence of an African American in the White House," he said."


I think that's bull hockey. Yes, there are pockets of racism but I do not hold to that above statement. The majority of people are not racist nor are they driven to insanity by a black man in the White House. A pp had an article by the kids roommate stating Roof wanted segregation and the friend told him that's not the way it's supposed to be. This kid had serious issues besides racism. I don't think your average racist is going to go to a church and kill 9 people, he was a special kind of crazy.

Your "average racist " had no problem beating a teenage Emmitt Till to death. Or bombing a church and killing 4 little girls. Or lynching black people. Or shooting Medgar Evers in the back in his front yard. Or killing Martin Luther King Jr. Or attacking freedom riders. Or trying to keep schools from integrating.

"Average racist" in America have a history of doing awful things to other Americans. Are we going to label all of those people a special kind of crazy?

 

[PlutoPony]

You don't have to frequent white supremacist sites. Read the comments under any article about him online. They are hateful and racist.

Truth.
Go to just about any article on any subject on Washington Post on-line edition and read the comments. Most likely more than one commenter will chime in with something hateful and often blatantly racist about the president, even if the article is totally unrelated to politics or policies. It happens day in, day out. I truly don't recall comments like this when Clinton or the Bushes were president. Why do you think that is?

 

[christineann]

This is my city. I work two blocks from Emmanuel and drive by it twice every day. There is evil in this world, and it is in people of all backgrounds, races, and genders. The killer does not represent the views of people around here and if anyone thinks he does, you have given him victory in achieving his objective of promoting hatred and divisiveness. Our community is devastated. The faith based community in our area (called the Holy City because of the large number of churches and synagogues here) have strong interfaith bonds with each other and will be still there for Emmanuel long after the news trucks are gone.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Just an example, from after the President announced his twitter account:

http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovemen...servatives_welcome_president_obama_to_twitter

Interesting that the article writer immediately attributed the comment of some random person on Twitter to a very specific political leaning. Interesting take when you're trying to make a point about bigotry.

 

[delyrium]

This is my city. I work two blocks from Emmanuel and drive by it twice every day. There is evil in this world, and it is in people of all backgrounds, races, and genders. The killer does not represent the views of people around here and if anyone thinks he does, you have given him victory in achieving his objective of promoting hatred and divisiveness. Our community is devastated. The faith based community in our area (called the Holy City because of the large number of churches and synagogues here) have strong interfaith bonds with each other and will be still there for Emmanuel long after the news trucks are gone.

Of course. Your community is shell shocked and heartbroken, I'm sure.

 

[ChrisFL]

Meanwhile Fox "News" spent the morning claming it was an "Attack on Faith" and claiming the church members would be better off if they all had guns, further reminding us all of where Fox stands on "News"

 

[disneyjunkie]

Meanwhile Fox "News" spent the morning claming it was an "Attack on Faith" and claiming the church members would be better off if they all had guns, further reminding us all of where Fox stands on "News"

Funny how they have decided to just ignore the shooter's words. He massacred those people because they were black.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Truth.
Go to just about any article on any subject on Washington Post on-line edition and read the comments. Most likely more than one commenter will chime in with something hateful and often blatantly racist about the president, even if the article is totally unrelated to politics or policies. It happens day in, day out. I truly don't recall comments like this when Clinton or the Bushes were president. Why do you think that is?

You don't recall comments like that about Bush & Clinton? Seriously? I STILL see those comments. Go check out the comments on a Hillary article sometime. Talk about hate LOL

Are racist comments unique to Obama? Probably. Hatred unique to Obama? HA!!! Not hardly.

Edit: almost forgot, just a few days ago I saw a huge rant of an artice followed by hundreds of hate-filled comments on Reagan - a man who not only has been out of the Oval Office more than 25 years, but is also dead LOL

 

[MarcW]

Your "average racist " had no problem beating a teenage Emmitt Till to death. Or bombing a church and killing 4 little girls. Or lynching black people. Or shooting Medgar Evers in the back in his front yard. Or killing Martin Luther King Jr. Or attacking freedom riders. Or trying to keep schools from integrating.

"Average racist" in America have a history of doing awful things to other Americans. Are we going to label all of those people a special kind of crazy?

All those things happened before I was born. The people who did those things and the people who condoned them at the time are all in rest homes or dead. Is there a new generation of racists who would carry out or applaud those kinds of acts? I'm sure, but it is terribly small. In fact despite the widespread prejudice of the time only a small minority of the populace actually condoned violence. Let me say that again, even people who supported separate water fountains didn't think you should bomb churches.

And yes, many of the people who perpetrated such acts were attracted to violence in and of itself. (This is unfortunately part of human nature. It is the strongest in young males as any crime statistics could show you.) If most Americans were as prejudiced back in the day as you seem to think AND willing to harm and kill in their hatred there wouldn't be any black Americans left today.

We need to stop attributing the sins of the fathers to the sons. Or the grandfathers to the grandsons. We're told we should not judge the rioters harshly for their own behaviour but we can slyly imply bigotry to all white Americans by what a few did fifty years ago? What a majority in power did a two hundred years ago?

I only judge someone on their own actions. Content of their character as one great American said. I don't need to pick every action apart looking for micro aggressions. I'm sorry for people who do. It must be awful living in their heads always thinking someone is out to slight them. We used to consider that a form of mental illness, now we teach it in college. Sigh.

In regards to Roof and his actions I am glad South Carolina has the death penalty.

 

[delyrium]

I don't know that there's been more politically motivated hatred toward Obama than toward Bush or Clinton, but certainly since the advent of Obama, more racists have come out of the woodwork- like cockroaches when you turn on the kitchen light. I do think discussing the president is a distraction, though.

 

[delyrium]

It baffles me when people talk about horrific acts of racism in the past tense when they are clearly happening right here. Right now. In this America.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Your "average racist " had no problem beating a teenage Emmitt Till to death. Or bombing a church and killing 4 little girls. Or lynching black people. Or shooting Medgar Evers in the back in his front yard. Or killing Martin Luther King Jr. Or attacking freedom riders. Or trying to keep schools from integrating.

"Average racist" in America have a history of doing awful things to other Americans. Are we going to label all of those people a special kind of crazy?

Other than opposing integration, none of those acts can be attributed to "average racists". If that's the kind of thing "average racists" did, the black race would have been wiped out decades ago.