Unfathomable: Church Massacre

[asta]

I still believe in the human race. Most people are good and decent. They just don't make the headlines.

We have too many stirring the pot ...encouraging hate and divisiveness. It brings out the crazies on both sides. The media plasters it wall to wall...24/7, while others fan the flames. They never miss an opportunity to promote their agenda. It's irresponsible and reprehensible.

I love this post.

This is such a horrible tragedy. My sympathies to those who lost loved ones in this senseless act. I wish everyone, especially the media, would honor the memory of those lost by stopping all of pot stirring that they seemed addicted to.

 

[delyrium]

http://www.abcnews4.com/story/29353792/suspect-in-church-shooting-had-apartheid-era-patches

In recent weeks, Dylann Storm Roof reconnected with a childhood buddy he hadn't seen in five years and started railing about the Trayvon Martin case, about black people "taking over the world" and about the need for someone to do something about it for the sake of "the white race," the friend said Thursday.

"He said blacks were taking over the world. Someone needed to do something about it for the white race," Meek said. "He said he wanted segregation between whites and blacks. I said, 'That's not the way it should be.' But he kept talking about it."

In Montgomery, Alabama, the president of the Southern Poverty Law Center, Richard Cohen, said it is unclear whether Roof had any connection to any of the 16 white supremacist organizations the SPLC has identified as operating in South Carolina.

But Cohen said that based on Roof's Facebook page, he appeared to be a "disaffected white supremacist."

In a statement, Cohen said the church attack is a reminder that while the post-Sept. 11 U.S. is focused on jihadi terrorism, the threat of homegrown extremism is "very real." Since 2000, the SPLC has seen an increase in the number of hate groups in the U.S., Cohen said.

"The increase has been driven by a backlash to the country's increasing racial diversity, an increase symbolized for many by the presence of an African American in the White House," he said.

 

[gwynne]

I'm watching various commentators. At this point they feel there is a good chance he'll be prosecuted at both the state and federal level. It's legal and they laid out some scenarios of the way it could go. They think it will be a death penalty case state and fed. (I realize it's early days in this case, but it is interesting to me that they see a pretty clear path down the road.)

 

[pat fan]

"The increase has been driven by a backlash to the country's increasing racial diversity, an increase symbolized for many by the presence of an African American in the White House," he said."


I think that's bull hockey. Yes, there are pockets of racism but I do not hold to that above statement. The majority of people are not racist nor are they driven to insanity by a black man in the White House. A pp had an article by the kids roommate stating Roof wanted segregation and the friend told him that's not the way it's supposed to be. This kid had serious issues besides racism. I don't think your average racist is going to go to a church and kill 9 people, he was a special kind of crazy.

 

[mnrose]

You may very well be right...it sounds like his dad was a nutjob for giving his drug addicted son a gun. But we have no idea where he learned this hate YET. Like I said you may very well be right and he learned this hate from home but there are people everyday who leave and join ISIS and their parents have no idea why or did not teach them to hate. My point is let's wait before we speculate.

I think the PP was being a bit tongue in cheek here. When a black youth commits a crime, people feel very free to speculate about his parenting and what he might have learned from his "community." But, when a white youth commits a crime, we need to wait before we speculate. Interesting. People are not born hating. They LEARN to hate. From somewhere, or someone. While I may not know "who" in this young man's community or family taught him that hate was ok, someone or something did. Maybe he listened to the never ending drivel on far right wing radio? Maybe he read right wing manifestos. Maybe he perused hate sites on the internet. But, he didn't wake up one day and decide to hate all black people out of thin air.
Racism is a learned behavior. Not innate. And, if it's learned it can be unlearned.

My father was a racist, and liberally used the "n" word when I was growing up. It's what I knew. But, when we grow up, we can learn to do better or we can give in to hatred.

 

[delyrium]

"The increase has been driven by a backlash to the country's increasing racial diversity, an increase symbolized for many by the presence of an African American in the White House," he said."


I think that's bull hockey. Yes, there are pockets of racism but I do not hold to that above statement. The majority of people are not racist nor are they driven to insanity by a black man in the White House. A pp had an article by the kids roommate stating Roof wanted segregation and the friend told him that's not the way it's supposed to be. This kid had serious issues besides racism. I don't think your average racist is going to go to a church and kill 9 people, he was a special kind of crazy.

Who would know better than the head of the SPLC? Why is it unbelievable to you that since 2008, incidents of outward white supremacism have been ramping up?

 

[mnrose]

"The increase has been driven by a backlash to the country's increasing racial diversity, an increase symbolized for many by the presence of an African American in the White House," he said."


I think that's bull hockey. Yes, there are pockets of racism but I do not hold to that above statement. The majority of people are not racist nor are they driven to insanity by a black man in the White House. A pp had an article by the kids roommate stating Roof wanted segregation and the friend told him that's not the way it's supposed to be. This kid had serious issues besides racism. I don't think your average racist is going to go to a church and kill 9 people, he was a special kind of crazy.

He never said the "majority" of Americans are racist. But anyone who doesn't think that there are still quite a few people who ARE racist and who ARE driven to distraction by the fact that our President is a black man, hasn't been paying attention. All you need to do is look at the posts on the internet whenever the President does something newsworthy. There a multitude of posts which contain that delightful "n" word when referring to him. How many? I don't know. I wish this were an isolated individual, but he is not alone.

 

[pat fan]

Maybe he listened to the never ending drivel on far right wing radio? Maybe he read right wing manifestos.

Treading into the political waters friend. Just a friendly "look out!"

 

[mnrose]

He never said the "majority" of Americans are racist. But anyone who doesn't think that there are still quite a few people who ARE racist and who ARE driven to distraction by the fact that our President is a black man, hasn't been paying attention. All you need to do is look at the posts on the internet whenever the President does something newsworthy. There a multitude of posts which contain that delightful "n" word when referring to him. How many? I don't know. I wish this were an isolated individual, but he is not alone.

Just an example, from after the President announced his twitter account:

http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovemen...servatives_welcome_president_obama_to_twitter

 

[mnrose]

nm

 

[pat fan]

But anyone who doesn't think that there are still quite a few people who ARE racist and who ARE driven to distraction by the fact that our President is a black man, hasn't been paying attention. All you need to do is look at the posts on the internet whenever the President does something newsworthy. There a multitude of posts which contain that delightful "n" word when referring to him. How many? I don't know. I wish this were an isolated individual, but he is not alone.

I pay pretty close attention to politics and I have to say I have not found that to be the case. Maybe I partake in more civilized discussion groups than those you do? I don't believe I have ever heard the "n" word in reference to the President even when others have vehemently disagreed with a certain policy. IRL, yes. I work with someone who is very racist, makes it quite difficult but I try, in my own way, to influence him. Does it work? Who knows, but I try. That said, again, he's not going to go to a church and kill 9 people. That's a whole other level of crazy.

 

[delyrium]

There are plenty of articles to be found about the supremacist outrage over Obama's election. Here's an article about the rise of white supremacism, as a response to census indicators that whites will be in the minority by 2050: http://abcnews.go.com/US/militias-h...se-minority-population-boom/story?id=16370136

 

[okeydokey]

I pay pretty close attention to politics and I have to say I have not found that to be the case. Maybe I partake in more civilized discussion groups than those you do? I don't believe I have ever heard the "n" word in reference to the President even when others have vehemently disagreed with a certain policy. IRL, yes. I work with someone who is very racist, makes it quite difficult but I try, in my own way, to influence him. Does it work? Who knows, but I try. That said, again, he's not going to go to a church and kill 9 people. That's a whole other level of crazy.

Just read the comments under any article about the president. Or anything newsworthy for that matter, people bring up the president and disparage his race.

 

[okeydokey]

Just an example, from after the President announced his twitter account:

http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovemen...servatives_welcome_president_obama_to_twitter

Holy cow, that's shameful. What's wrong with people?

 

[TLSnell1981]

My first thoughts had nothing to do with race, creed, color, gender, etc... I was horrified, that ANYONE would go into a church and kill people.

 

[pat fan]

people bring up the president and disparage his race.

Again, I may hear/see people disparaging him but I do NOT hear his race being involved int he discussion.

Now, if I frequented white supremacist sites, I am sure that I would hear that stuff, but as I do not go to those sites, I guess I miss it. I think drumming up the thought of white supremacy on the rise because of a black President is just as bad as drumming up all blacks are bad because of the riots we've had recently. Both are narratives that a SMALL group like to drum up and keep loudly drumming. Problem is, as they say, if you say it long and loud enough people start to believe it. So, we need to not be repeating that crap and work to prove the opposite is true.

 

[hereyago]

Just an example, from after the President announced his twitter account:

http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovemen...servatives_welcome_president_obama_to_twitter

Whew, what the heck? My jaw dropped at the first couple words. People are crazy.

 

[delyrium]

Again, I may hear/see people disparaging him but I do NOT hear his race being involved int he discussion.

Now, if I frequented white supremacist sites, I am sure that I would hear that stuff, but as I do not go to those sites, I guess I miss it. I think drumming up the thought of white supremacy on the rise because of a black President is just as bad as drumming up all blacks are bad because of the riots we've had recently. Both are narratives that a SMALL group like to drum up and keep loudly drumming. Problem is, as they say, if you say it long and loud enough people start to believe it. So, we need to not be repeating that crap and work to prove the opposite is true.

Groups that compile statistics on such things are not trying to lie. They're telling th truth form the data they've compiled. Why are you so invested in disbelieving this? Putting one's head in the sand is not a solution, and anyway the point is that the person under discussion did not just hatch out of an egg and start shooting. He got his ideas about race wars from somewhere.

 

[pat fan]

He got his ideas about race wars from somewhere.

I agree, from the media that spins stories any way they want to. I'm not at all saying there are not supremecists out there, I absolutely think there are. I just don't think they are growing by leaps and bounds because we have a black President. And I also know that stats can be twisted and if you don't, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you

But back to the OT, the President has nothing to do with this, so I'm done talking about him.

 

[Anesthesia Fine]

I love this post.

I wish everyone, especially the media, would honor the memory of those lost by stopping all of pot stirring that they seemed addicted to.

I don't know, I'm kind of with Esquire on this:

What happened in a Charleston church on Wednesday night is a lot of things, but one thing it's not is "unspeakable." We should speak of it often. We should speak of it loudly. We should speak of it as terrorism, which is what it was. We should speak of it as racial violence, which is what it was. We should speak of it as an attack on history, which it was. This was the church founded by Denmark Vesey, who planned a slave revolt in 1822. Vesey was convicted in a secret trial in which many of the witnesses testified after being tortured. After they hung him, a mob burned down the church he built. His sons rebuilt it. On Wednesday night, someone turned it into a slaughter pen.

We should speak of it as an assault on the idea of a political commonwealth, which is what it was. And we should speak of it as one more example of all of these, another link in a bloody chain of events that reaches all the way back to African wharves and Southern docks. It is not an isolated incident, not if you consider history as something alive that can live and breathe and bleed. We should speak of all these things. What happened in that church was a lot of things, but unspeakable is not one of them.

People (in general, not necessarily here specifically) are twisting themselves in knots trying to paint this as anything but racist and re-direct the conversation into something they're more comfortable discussing. If we can't openly call something like this blatant racism, than it's not going to help a darn thing.