Unfair :(

[ShayBells]

I can't help but think the offsiters spend even MORE money on the non-accommodations stuff (food, souvenirs, rentals, etc.), because they have so much more spending cash from the money saved by staying off Disney property. In my example alone, there was almost $2500 saved vs. similar accommodations at Disney. That's a lot of spending cash.

I'd have to disagree on the fact that I always get swept up in the hotel gift shops on disney property all most every day we pop in and buy something. My kid has this please down that makes me crumble. So most my money goes into the hotel gift shop that wouldn't if we were off property.

I don't stay on for anything other than I like it. I don't look at benefits. I look at what make me feel comfortable and safe. And I just do at Disney. That's me. My personal preference. And I've done both on and off and have stayed at various resorts both on and off.

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[pilferk]

As far as spending as much when staying offsite...no way do we spend as much. One of the perks of offsite are better food options. Disney's are average at best since "free dining" reared its ugly head.

And I gotta tell you, by and large, I'm not sure the dining plan is saving everyone much money these days.

It saves very specific groups of people some money (specifically those with 2 or more children under 10).

Other than that...it's SO close that I'm not sure you're saving much more than the interest you'd accrue letting it sit in a passbook savings account (yes, that's a bit of hyperbole..but only a bit). Especially if you consider value calculations in (as in: Would you have bought that souvenir mug? Would you order dessert for EVERY meal? Could you have gotten a room discount instead?).

FREE Dining, as a promotion, is a little different....but that's not what I mean. I mean the dining plan, itself, as a paid addition to your package.

Ok, Ok..you're right. That's a tangent discussion....

 

[bellaprincess98]

The main issue for me is, having booked many months before I became aware of FP+, I didn't have the option of factoring that into my decision about where to stay. Had I known about it, we might have booked on-site. Might. I'm not too jazzed, however, to learn about this change a month before my trip, when it's too late to take advantage even if I wanted to. True, life isn't fair, but my trip to WDW isn't "life", it's a business transaction. And if WDW's business practices are viewed as unfair, well, that's bad business. If I sandbagged my own customers this way, my company wouldn't be where it is today. The secondary issue for me is that I don't like the idea of planning out all my FPs in advance. Our children's likes and dislikes change from visit to visit and we generally don't even like to decide which park we're going to until the night before. We like to wander around and get FP based on desire/need of the moment. If what we're left with is stand-by only for every ride unless we not only stay on site but also plan our days out in advance, it's a disincentive to return for us and, I imagine, for others. It's difficult to see how this won't hurt Disney's bottom line, but I'm sure they know what they're doing. And to be fair, we're probably not typical "Disney People" in terms of our level of interest, and maybe it makes sense to try to squeeze more money out of the more devoted fans by encouraging on-site hotel use and to treat the day-trippers as somewhat expendable. In any event, I'm just glad we're going off-season first week in December, before they've fully launched this program.

What you said is exactly why I started this thread, except I couldn't express it as well as you just did.

 

[Granny square]

And I gotta tell you, by and large, I'm not sure the dining plan is saving everyone much money these days. It saves very specific groups of people some money (specifically those with 2 or more children under 10). Other than that...it's SO close that I'm not sure you're saving much more than the interest you'd accrue letting it sit in a passbook savings account (yes, that's a bit of hyperbole..but only a bit). Especially if you consider value calculations in (as in: Would you have bought that souvenir mug? Would you order dessert for EVERY meal? Could you have gotten a room discount instead?). FREE Dining, as a promotion, is a little different....but that's not what I mean. I mean the dining plan, itself, as a paid addition to your package. Ok, Ok..you're right. That's a tangent discussion....

Hahahahaha! Totally agree on all counts.

 

[butterflygirl812]

The main issue for me is, having booked many months before I became aware of FP+, I didn't have the option of factoring that into my decision about where to stay. Had I known about it, we might have booked on-site. Might. I'm not too jazzed, however, to learn about this change a month before my trip, when it's too late to take advantage even if I wanted to. True, life isn't fair, but my trip to WDW isn't "life", it's a business transaction. And if WDW's business practices are viewed as unfair, well, that's bad business. If I sandbagged my own customers this way, my company wouldn't be where it is today. The secondary issue for me is that I don't like the idea of planning out all my FPs in advance. Our children's likes and dislikes change from visit to visit and we generally don't even like to decide which park we're going to until the night before. We like to wander around and get FP based on desire/need of the moment. If what we're left with is stand-by only for every ride unless we not only stay on site but also plan our days out in advance, it's a disincentive to return for us and, I imagine, for others. It's difficult to see how this won't hurt Disney's bottom line, but I'm sure they know what they're doing. And to be fair, we're probably not typical "Disney People" in terms of our level of interest, and maybe it makes sense to try to squeeze more money out of the more devoted fans by encouraging on-site hotel use and to treat the day-trippers as somewhat expendable. In any event, I'm just glad we're going off-season first week in December, before they've fully launched this program.

How many months in advance did you book? We booked in October of 2012 for a November 2013 trip. At the time of booking, Disney had on their website about the MB and FPP testing. I don't think the info they have published on their site now is much different than it was a year ago.

 

[nugov2]

But realistically, you don't do most of that unless you are staying on site.

I disagree. We did it all. I know of others who stay off site who do a lot on site. Like I said before, we stay off site for space and not for savings. Just like a lot of other families. I want to dine at Disney, enjoy the characters and the other perks on site has. I just don't want to be cramped while doing it. I would guess I spent more at WDW than the average value or mod guest because we weren't eating in food courts we were eating at he deluxe restaurants while we were there for a week. My point is have perks for the on site people, that is fine. I just ask you make it available to off site for a price otherwise WDW is actually losing money from people.

 

[BayouMickey]

I disagree. We did it all. I know of others who stay off site who do a lot on site. Like I said before, we stay off site for space and not for savings. Just like a lot of other families. I want to dine at Disney, enjoy the characters and the other perks on site has. I just don't want to be cramped while doing it. I would guess I spent more at WDW than the average value or mod guest because we weren't eating in food courts we were eating at he deluxe restaurants while we were there for a week. My point is have perks for the on site people, that is fine. I just ask you make it available to off site for a price otherwise WDW is actually losing money from people.

But you are an exception.. The common offsite WDW vacationer wouldn't go to the resorts to ride bikes, play in the arcades, etc. etc.

 

[pilferk]

I disagree. We did it all. I know of others who stay off site who do a lot on site. Like I said before, we stay off site for space and not for savings. Just like a lot of other families. I want to dine at Disney, enjoy the characters and the other perks on site has. I just don't want to be cramped while doing it. I would guess I spent more at WDW than the average value or mod guest because we weren't eating in food courts we were eating at he deluxe restaurants while we were there for a week. My point is have perks for the on site people, that is fine. I just ask you make it available to off site for a price otherwise WDW is actually losing money from people.

To be clear..."you" (specifically) don't matter. At least not in terms of this particular point.

What the homogenized group of those that stay off site vs the sum total of those that stay on site (not just value and mod guests...all of them), does.

And I'd venture that on site guests, as a whole, put more revenue into Disney's coffers than off site guests do. Simply because they have a sizable head start based on room rates, alone. And they are a "captive audience". Disney has worked hard to make them that way precisely BECAUSE it harnesses more dollars.

 

[Granny square]

How many months in advance did you book? We booked in October of 2012 for a November 2013 trip. At the time of booking, Disney had on their website about the MB and FPP testing. I don't think the info they have published on their site now is much different than it was a year ago.

Really? They stated the dates? Because when we were there in January and the RFID rio. Keys were getting screwed up in a daily basis the whole process seemed to be guesswork.

 

[crazyventures]

We just spent a month offsite and the only FP that was an issue was Soarin, and we even got that a few times. No big deal IMO and when FP+ is completely rolled out things will return to normal.

You're not missing much with Soarin'. I'm still confused as to why that is such a popular ride in WDW!

 

[wen8jr]

Again, FP+ is only an onsite perk during this *testing* phase. Disney has already announced that ALL guests will have access to FP+ as it is included in theme park admission.

Yes, but it is assumed that onsite guests will get to choose theirs at 60 days whereas ticket holders may not. In my opinion that is a perk.

 

[Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina]

But, really...how much overpriced plastic can you buy? $2500 is a nice chunk of change, but if I were "saving it", I doubt I'd be willing (or able) to find THAT much "other stuff" to use it for.

We can float lots of different anomalies, but...lets be honest. The most likely scenario is: Disney is getting more revenue off of the on site guest. And likely making more profit.

I know we visit Orlando more often when we can visit so affordably. The more money I save, the more frequently we can go. The more often we visit, the more meals we eat on property. The more stuff we buy in the gift shops. The more we spend on tickets.

And yes, I agree that onsiters are almost guaranteed so spend more. That said, I still maintain that is their premium-priced accomodations that will bring in the largest chunk of revenue. At $695 per night for a two bedroom at SSR, Disney is bringing in gobs of cash just on the room.

The main issue for me is, having booked many months before I became aware of FP+, I didn't have the option of factoring that into my decision about where to stay. Had I known about it, we might have booked on-site. Might.

Very well stated.

Thanks! Again, numbers geek thing. Just wanted to make sure we were all jumping off the same platform.

No problem . I agree....compare apples to apples. That's why it bothers me when people justify the "savings" of onsite by comparing a value room to a 2 bedroom villa.

I'd have to disagree on the fact

I had no doubt you would . And that's a-okay. I think this has been a great discussion (once you wipe out the occasional sarcasm here and there). I enjoy hearing "the other side", even if its a different perspective than mine. I think there's always something to learn.

 

[Jeslynb]

How many months in advance did you book? We booked in October of 2012 for a November 2013 trip. At the time of booking, Disney had on their website about the MB and FPP testing. I don't think the info they have published on their site now is much different than it was a year ago.

We booked about 10- months in advance, but since we booked off-site, perhaps I wasn't directed to the part of the WDW website that discussed FP+. I do remember browsing the cabins and the Poly and don't recall seeing anything.

We did, however, buy tickets to the holiday party (we're going first week in December) and Hoop de Do and made lots of ADRs and nothing came up about it.

I learned about it a week or so ago when I logged back into my user account and there was a pop-up about linking my tickets to my ADRs.

I had logged in about 2-3 weeks prior at the most, so the information was sent to me, as a user, only within the last month.

Weird. I mean, I wouldn't let it ruin my vacation, but I think it's bizarre.

 

[butterflygirl812]

Really? They stated the dates? Because when we were there in January and the RFID rio. Keys were getting screwed up in a daily basis the whole process seemed to be guesswork.

I wouldn't say that they stated the dates. Disney is intentionally vague about the information that they are putting out in terms of dates. With everyone so up in arms right now, can you imagine if they had published dates, and then not been able to meet them?!

But last October, they did say that the system was going into testing with select guests this year......right on their website. At the time, I remember thinking that I would love to be a tester for our trip. I've used RFId bracelets for other resort stays, and they've been great!

 

[pilferk]

I know we visit Orlando more often when we can visit so affordably. The more money I save, the more frequently we can go. The more often we visit, the more meals we eat on property. The more stuff we buy in the gift shops. The more we spend on tickets.

And yes, I agree that onsiters are almost guaranteed so spend more. That said, I still maintain that is their premium-priced accomodations that will bring in the largest chunk of revenue. At $695 per night for a two bedroom at SSR, Disney is bringing in gobs of cash just on the room.

Agree...it's hotel revenue (in various forms) that make the "head start" so large. Not just room rates (though that's the bulk) but sundries and services, too. Like paying 8 bucks for a box of pepto in the hotel gift shop.

No problem . I agree....compare apples to apples. That's why it bothers me when people justify the "savings" of onsite by comparing a value room to a 2 bedroom villa.

I agree on the price comparison. And also agree with another point that you've made: You "get" that a 2BR villa isn't necessary for everyone, or necessarily everyone's cup of tea. It's, at it's heart, a value calculation.

Which is why off site works/makes sense for some, and not others.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Yes, but it is assumed that onsite guests will get to choose theirs at 60 days whereas ticket holders may not. In my opinion that is a perk.

That is just an assumption. Disney hasn't said that pre-booking will only be for onsite guests. It could just as easily be that onsite guests get 60 days + 10, like they get +10 for ADRs, while those offsite just get the 60 days. There's just no way to know that right now.

 

[Angel Ariel]

How many months in advance did you book? We booked in October of 2012 for a November 2013 trip. At the time of booking, Disney had on their website about the MB and FPP testing. I don't think the info they have published on their site now is much different than it was a year ago.

Since Disney didn't officially announce the MM+ initiative until Jan 2013, I'm not sure why it's hard to believe that people could have arranged their vacations a year ago and not known what it was going to be like nwo.

 

[Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina]

I agree on the price comparison. And also agree with another point that you've made: You "get" that a 2BR villa isn't necessary for everyone, or necessarily everyone's cup of tea. It's, at it's heart, a value calculation.

Which is why off site works/makes sense for some, and not others.

And you know, the endless "options" for visitors are what I love most about Orlando. Its why I can recommend it to almost anybody. I can guarantee they will have what you are looking for .... non-stop fun. Relaxation. Fine dining. Funky counter service. Basic motel. Luxury villa. Wild rides. Wonderful shows. 'Cause one family's best memories is another family's dread (read "camping" here for me.....lol!! ). There are so many ways to "do" Disney (and so much beyond Disney's gates...but that's a whole other thread!! )

 

[pilferk]

That is just an assumption. Disney hasn't said that pre-booking will only be for onsite guests. It could just as easily be that onsite guests get 60 days + 10, like they get +10 for ADRs, while those offsite just get the 60 days. There's just no way to know that right now.

The only thing I wonder is this:

I'm assuming you will have to have your ticket linked to your MDE profile to get access to FP+, if you are a day guest/staying off site..

I don't know...so maybe a straw poll is in order...but do those of you who stay off site buy your tickets that far in advance?

For many on site guests...it's part of your package price, so it's not an issue so long as you're booking at least that far in advance.

I guess a similar question (or maybe a question of functionality) would hold true for "room only" guests. Do they need tickets attached to their MDE profile? Or will their room ressie, alone, get them FP+ access.

We typically stay with our DVC, book FAR in advance (close to the 11 month window) and we buy our tickets FAR in advance via UCT (usually just prior to the annual price increase, but not always).

But I doubt that's typical behavior. Or maybe it is..I don't know.

 

[Angel Ariel]

The only thing I wonder is this:

I'm assuming you will have to have your ticket linked to your MDE profile to get access to FP+.

I don't know...so maybe a straw poll is in order...but do those of you who stay off site buy your tickets that far in advance.

We've been buying the AFS tickets of late. We couldn't buy them that far in advance this year because our local ITT didn't carry the 2013-14 ones before our trip (which started 10/1), so we had to buy them at SoG when we arrived.

Were I not buying AFS tickets, or had the AFS tickets been available 60 days prior, yes I would have had my tickets in hand. I had my MNSSHP tickets in hand that early, as well as the TOT Villains Bash ticket that early as well. I don't tend to wait until we are onsite to purchase tickets if I can help it.