Un-borrow/bank points - Why not?

[mikelan6]

I am a relatively new DVC member and would have often wondered why points that are borrowed cannot be un-borrowed. They are my points, I paid for them, I have the right to them, why can't I do what I want with them? What difference does it make to DVC when they are used?

The same would apply to banking points. If I bank my points to the next year and I later decide I want to use them for a last minute trip, why not?

 

[onestitchloose]

Not sure to be honest, are they maybe just trying to prevent people messing about by constantly amending. Might make it easier for them to forecast availability e.t.c.

Agreed tho, there are your points...

 

[disneynutz]

IMO Disney wants it to appear that DVC is wonderful and that it caters to the "members", in reality they want you to forfeit points so they created rules to make point usage complicated.

Bill

 

[onestitchloose]

'limited' describes it better for me.

 

[DebbieB]

I see one possibility. Say I'm not sure if I want to stay at Beach Club or Boardwalk. I could borrow points and hold both until I make up my mind. Then "unborrow" after I make up my mind (before 30 days). Not fair to the other members to be holding both. If you have enough points you could still do it but by not allowing "unborrowing" or "unbanking" it limits it.

 

[SuperRob]

Contrary to what Bill said above, Disney does it for forecasting resort usage. If the points are banked into a future year, they can be pretty sure you will not be staying this year, but will next. Likewise, if you borrow into your current year, they know you likely will not stay next year (unless you borrow again).If they allowed you unrestricted access to your points, they couldn't forecast nearly as well.

Now I will say that the banking deadline before you forfeit your points makes no sense other than to add both accuracy to their forecasts and as a bonus to DVC when you forfeit.

 

[LisaS]

DVC sells enough points at each resort to require a 98% (+/-) occupancy level year round to consume all the points issued each year. In order to make sure there aren't too many unused points and not enough rooms to absorb those points, they need to keep the system in balance. With such a high required occupancy level, there isn't much margin for error so I can see why they don't allow banking in the final 4 months of one's UY and why they only allow you to borrow if you are actually making a reservation at the time.

If they allowed last-minute banking they would probably need to exercise tighter control over it, reducing or suspending banking from time to time. Imagine the uproar if some members who were planning to bank in the last month of their UY weren't allowed to do so and lost their points. It would be equally bad if they allowed banking to continue even when things were becoming unbalanced and then the following year there weren't enough rooms to go around and members couldn't use their banked points.

 

[summabreeze85]

I can understand why is has to do with room forecasting and occupancy level. Also Disney actually has better rules for managing points than my other timeshares.

 

[SuperRob]

DVC sells enough points at each resort to require a 98% (+/-) occupancy level year round to consume all the points issued each year. In order to make sure there aren't too many unused points and not enough rooms to absorb those points, they need to keep the system in balance. With such a high required occupancy level, there isn't much margin for error so I can see why they don't allow banking in the final 4 months of one's UY and why they only allow you to borrow if you are actually making a reservation at the time.

If they allowed last-minute banking they would probably need to exercise tighter control over it, reducing or suspending banking from time to time. Imagine the uproar if some members who were planning to bank in the last month of their UY weren't allowed to do so and lost their points. It would be equally bad if they allowed banking to continue even when things were becoming unbalanced and then the following year there weren't enough rooms to go around and members couldn't use their banked points.

Room availability plays a huge role in whether or not people bank their points. Their computer systems (and don't get me started on the sad state of Disney IT) should be able to forecast whether or not points will be banked as any given use year comes to an end purely based on available rooms. Of course, that doesn't preclude the possibility of trading out to other systems. So they probably have a better handle on the situation that we might give them credit for.

They also don't have to require 98% occupancy. They do release rooms to general booking when necessary. If there's one thing you can be sure of, Disney will get their money.

 

[Brian Noble]

why points that are borrowed cannot be un-borrowed. They are my points, I paid for them, I have the right to them

Because Disney says you can't.

That sounds facetious, and I don't mean it to be. Rather: The Walt Disney Company is one of the more paternalistic institutions you might encounter. They set the rules, and they don't particularly care if you agree with them or not. You can decide to play by their rules, or you can decide to sell. Those are your choices. Stark reality? Yes. But also: true.

 

[JimMIA]

Every timeshare is limited by law to selling only the number of room-nights each resort has -- you can't sell gullible timeshare marks something which does not exist. In DVC's case that means a specific number of points per Use Year

Looking at a particular Use Year, your points represent a specific buying power for accommodations for that year. Yes, they are your points -- and yes, you have paid the MFs for those points -- but only for that year.

To say "I paid for those points so I can use them any way I want" is just plain silly. It's the same thing as saying, "I paid the rent last month, why do I have to pay this month?"

If you choose to bank those points forward to a future year, you are actually putting more points in that UY than there are room-nights. If you borrow from a future year, you are creating a situation where you are using points to gobble up accommodations which do not actually exist.

Now obviously, there is a lot of banking and borrowing back and forth, and it kinda-sorta balances out. But if DVC allowed you to reverse those decisions, it would upset the balance of the system and would create an unmanageable mess. So the transactions are non-reversible.

Most timeshare systems permit some flexibility of usage to overcome the fixed-week/use-it-or-lose-it model the industry started out with. Banking/borrowing is DVC's way.

Learn it; do it; deal with it.

 

[paults]

what Jim said

 

[supersnoop]

I am a relatively new DVC member and would have often wondered why points that are borrowed cannot be un-borrowed. They are my points, I paid for them, I have the right to them, why can't I do what I want with them? What difference does it make to DVC when they are used?

The same would apply to banking points. If I bank my points to the next year and I later decide I want to use them for a last minute trip, why not?

Why do they allow you to bank and borrow to begin with? They're your points to use in that year. They give you the benefit of moving them to an adjacent year if you need to, and now you want even more benefits?

 

[LisaS]

They also don't have to require 98% occupancy. They do release rooms to general booking when necessary. If there's one thing you can be sure of, Disney will get their money.

Just to clarify: I didn't say they require a 98% occupancy. I said they sold enough points at each resort to book those resorts at an 98% occupancy level. That limits the amount by which the number of points banked could exceed the number borrowed before they risk having too many points in a given year and not enough inventory for members to book with those points.

Yes they do release rooms to general booking (usually at 60 days out) but that further reduces the number of rooms available to be booked with points, though MS can sometimes pull a room back for a member trying to book in the 60-day window.

 

[SuperRob]

Just to clarify: I didn't say they require a 98% occupancy. I said they sold enough points at each resort to book those resorts at an 98% occupancy level.

Actually, you did.

DVC sells enough points at each resort to require a 98% (+/-) occupancy level year round

But I forgive you.

 

[LisaS]

Actually, you did.
But I forgive you.

No, I said

DVC sells enough points at each resort to require a 98% (+/-) occupancy level year round to consume all the points issued each year.

The bit you deleted was the important part of my comment and is the reason why they have to manage banking and borrowing as carefully as they do.

 

[SuperRob]

I'm just teasing you, Lisa.

 

[FRANKTSJR]

Why do they allow you to bank and borrow to begin with? They're your points to use in that year. They give you the benefit of moving them to an adjacent year if you need to, and now you want even more benefits?

Wow, I was waiting for the Disney can do no wrong "defender" to chime in. The poster asked an innocent question and mentioned being new to the Boards but still you gotta bust.

 

[supersnoop]

Wow, I was waiting for the Disney can do no wrong "defender" to chime in. The poster asked an innocent question and mentioned being new to the Boards but still you gotta bust.

It's a timeshare. In the old days, you purchased a specific unit for a specific week. If you needed more room, you were out of luck. If you needed to move it a day, you were out of luck. DVC is very flexible, but there are limits.

But you're way off base calling me a "do no wrong defender." I take offense to that.

 

[FRANKTSJR]

It's a timeshare. In the old days, you purchased a specific unit for a specific week. If you needed more room, you were out of luck. If you needed to move it a day, you were out of luck. DVC is very flexible, but there are limits.

But you're way off base calling me a "do no wrong defender." I take offense to that.

Just calling it as I see it.