Two-Tier DVC coming??

[jennypenny]

First of all, let me say I know nothing. I'm just perplexed by some of Disney's recent moves, and I'm trying to make sense of them.

I have been dumbfounded by Disney practically giving up on selling AKV and SSR for now. I know BLT is the hot property. And I understand why salespeople would push the easiest sell with the highest cost. But I don't understand the lack of incentives for AKV and SSR. On the Wonder last week, once I indicated to the DVC person that I wasn't intested in BLT, only SSR incentives, she blew me off immediately saying "I'd have to go look up if there's something right now, so set up an appointment if you want me to look" and walked away.

I'm also confused by the (possible) construction of a GF DVC and a Ft. Wilderness DVC at the same time. If it was only GF, I could understand more given the popularity of BLT. And I could understand FW more if Disney were pushing SSR and AKV. It seems like they are at cross purposes if both those properties turn out to be DVC projects.

So, I'm wondering if we're headed to a two-tier system for DVC. You could lump BLT, GF, and maybe BCV and BW into one tier of properties, and the rest, including a FW DVC into another. Proximity would be an easy way to explain the division of properties, but popularity would be the obvious reason. (I'm not bashing any particular resort, but basing this tier on availability and proximity, as well as comparable hotel rates).

Could DVC do this and limit access of owners to *their* tier? I think so, right? We're only guaranteed our own resort if I remember correctly. That would make AKV and SSR more attractive in their tiers, and justify keeping those prices lower (or raising BLT/GF prices higher--however you want to look at that). I suppose they could make the other tier available at much higher point levels if they wanted as a trade out (like they do with YC and Poly), or keep them completely separate. It would also explain why they were exercising ROFL on BCV only right now.

Am I nuts?

 

[disneychic]

Very interesting.....I can't wait to hear what people think.

BTW, I don't think you're nuts, although I do hope you are wrong. I'd hate to see a change of that sort (two-tier system)

 

[disneynutz]

I don't think that there will be a tier system but there has to be a reason why Guides are told to push certain resorts over others.

Maybe BLT cost more to develop and Lewis promised his bosses that they would sell out by 2012 and/or Disney is taking back the TOTWL in 2012? Maybe he was told that Disney wouldn't let him develop GF until BLT sold out and his pay and bonuses are tied to keeping on schedule. We know that the commission on BLT sales is higher based on the Guides reactions.

There has to be all kinds of internal reasons that we may or may not ever be aware of.

Bill

 

[aroundtheriverbend]

We had a pretty good incentive to buy AKL on our Magic cruise we just got back from, they were offering $18/pt credit, I thought that was pretty good, it was only SSR with no credits, the AKL one was actually a better deal per point than SSR once you added in the cruise credit....

Boy, I hope they don't do the 2 tier thing, we just bought for the first time last week, and that DEFINITELY would have changed what we bought....

 

[yopaulie5]

BLT has a great location and big attraction to see fireworks on the roof, but I was unimpressed when I stayed there last and it was really buggy. I think I am spoiled from BCV.

 

[Starr W.]

I don't think that there will be a tier system but there has to be a reason why Guides are told to push certain resorts over others.

Maybe BLT cost more to develop and Lewis promised his bosses that they would sell out by 2012 and/or Disney is taking back the TOTWL in 2012? Maybe he was told that Disney wouldn't let him develop GF until BLT sold out and his pay and bonuses are tied to keeping on schedule. We know that the commission on BLT sales is higher based on the Guides reactions.

There has to be all kinds of internal reasons that we may or may not ever be aware of.

Bill

I agree.

Who knows how DVC/DVD figures pay/bonuses. BLT may have cost more to build than SSR/AKV and to get it sold out first might hit some bonus trigger based on some sort of capital/return model.

I wonder where Aulani figures into the Big Picture? But that's a question for another day.

 

[Sammie]

BLT needs to sell out so they can then start repairing the parts that are wearing out.

SSR and AKV both are wearing much better than BLT.

 

[Dean]

There is a long thread on this subject that went cold fairly recently. I don't have time to look right now but I'm sure it won't be hard to find. I'd say 50/50 at this point, I keep going back and forth between probably not and maybe.

 

[KLEONARD]

BLT may be on the sales peoples hot list, but SSR is getting the attention of the DVC bean counters.
SSR has been blessed with the tree house villas. Members debated how the tree houses could have gone into OKW instead of SSR.
Now DVC digs up a leisure pool and turns it into a themed pool. How often has that happened at the other DVC resorts?
I would not like to see a two tier system, but if I have to pick one resort, SSR is looking pretty good. If the rumored DTD major expansion comes to fruition, SSR is going to look even better to me.


Kevin

 

[keishashadow]

A tiered system would be very difficult to navigate for those of us who own @ multiple resorts and often re-book @ the 7 month window & combine points.

I don't think geography would be the determining factor in any event, moreso 'popularity' (as demonstrated by the resorts/type of accommodations that typically fill up last) & categorizing them into a tier.

If any type of re-organization is instituted regarding tiers, it would be a wonderful gesture if DVC would allow current members to trade their current points to land their holdings completely within a tier....certainly not holding my breath on that sort of accommodation.

 

[hmillerbarilla]

SSR is looking pretty good. If the rumored DTD major expansion comes to fruition, SSR is going to look even better to me.


Kevin

I agree, even though SSR isn't one of my home resorts, I think the resort is beautiful and with the new pool is just such a relaxing escape!

 

[jennypenny]

There is a long thread on this subject that went cold fairly recently. I don't have time to look right now but I'm sure it won't be hard to find. I'd say 50/50 at this point, I keep going back and forth between probably not and maybe.

I missed that thread, but we just got back from Vancouver/Alaska cruise and I was pretty wrapped up in that planning for a while.

Many people on this board think a two tier system would overly complicate things, but I think most of them are only used to the DVC system. Those of us that use other timeshares know how many different restrictions can be placed on owners. Honestly, in most other timeshares the restrictions have been clear (and lengthy) in the deeds. Disney left themselves a lot of wiggle room in their deeds.

I won't be surprised if DVC breaks itself into smaller groups at some point. And I don't really think it hurts owners much. It will lower resale values for anyone who owns in the perceived second tier, but anyone who bought at one resort expecting to use their points regularly at another resort didn't understand the system.

 

[TisBit]

I think DVC is really pushing BLT because it is an easy sell at this point. They knew that SSR was getting THV's and a new theme'd pool, etc. Sell BLT since that is the one that is peaking the most interest and use SSR/AKV as a stop gap between BLT sell out and GFV being built.

As for the other DVC villa, little has been done to really say that it is in the pipeline at THIS time, but maybe it will come online after GFV's and serve as a stopgap to a Poly DVC.

I doubt you will see an "official" two tiered DVC, but maybe the point totals will be reflective of those tiers. Newer resorts are going higher and higher for a point per night cost...and maybe a non-monorailed resort will go back to a moderate point total vs what you are seeing at BLT.

 

[disneynutz]

It could be a interest/momentum issue. DVD hypes a project, sets a price, offers incentives, and the sales start rolling in. At some point a new property is offered. Process repeated. If the majority of interest shifts to the new property, (BLT), it makes sense to ride the BLT wave until interest drops, which it hasn't. After BLT they will focus on AKV until the next property is announced.

Bill

 

[gkrykewy]

I don't think we'll see any tiering of DVC, except in the form it's already taken (higher per-night point costs at BLT, and still higher for the presumed GFV).

I'm sure there's some other financial reason for the BLT hard sell, as suggested earlier in the thread. And frankly I'm scratching my head about how you're logically linking the BLT hard sell to this tiering idea -- where's the logical connection? If there was to be tiering, wouldn't you see lower prices and MORE incentives (not less) for SSR and AKV?

I don't think GFV and FWV will advance at the same time.

 

[Who's your Mickey?]

BLT needs to sell out so they can then start repairing the parts that are wearing out.

SSR and AKV both are wearing much better than BLT.

I've stayed at all 3 of the resorts being discussed here... Based upon what I saw, they ALL have wear & tear... Our 1BR villa at AKL had stains in the carpet and on the couch and one of the control covers on the BR TV was broken off... Was it a big deal??? NO!!! Our 1BR villa at SSR had a tear in the sofa cushion and scratches on the furniture... It also had some nasty black flakes (mold???) that would shoot from the jets in the whirlpool tub. Again, was it a big deal??? NO!!! (the mold flakes did lead me to say something to the front desk, but they didn't have an impact on my trip...) I've stayed in a studio, 1BR and 2BR (lock-off) at BLT and I've also seen some wear and tear issues... Stains on sofas, carpets and scratched furniture happen in a hotel/rental environment...

Perhaps I have a different perspective than some people here because I've owned other "beach resort" properties that have been rented out in the past... Many people fret over potential increases in maintenance fees... I realize that the economy has gotten tighter and that many who own DVC properties are stretching their own financial limits, but increases in maintenance fees are spread over the year among all point owners... I'm used to having to fix/replace problems immediately, all on my dime... Also, the beach rental market is very competitive... When the property management company makes a "recommendation" to maximize your property's rental potential, that's code for "do it or we stop pushing your property up the foodchain"... I spent plenty on cash over the years on first VCRs, then DVD players followed by satellite TV (DirecTV)... Not to mention "freshening the paint", replacing missing silverware & dishes, deep-cleaning the carpets and upholstery and repairing/replacing plumbing and HVAC...

Do I regret owning beach houses and renting them out??? Not one bit... Sure, it was a PITA when the big bills came flying my way, but for the most part the houses paid for themselves once they were established in the marketplace... I wouldn't recommend doing this as a retirement plan, but it provided my family with easy, relatively cheap vacations for many years... I sold these properties just prior to the RE market collapse cool1 and bought points in DVC... Life is much easier in this program... It's not a traditional timeshare that locks me into certain locations/times... I can vacation as I please... I realize that excessive wear & tear could cause the maintenance fees to increase, but it will never be the ebb and flow it was when I was the sole owner of a property...

After reading these boards, I am still baffled by the response to BLT... There seems to be a love/hate relationship with the building... Some love the place, some hate the place and well, some love to hate the place... The sales pace never surprised me... It is easily the most visible DVC property at WDW... Rule #1 in real estate... Location, location, location... That's why I bought there... I wouldn't say that I love the decor of the building, but I don't live there for more than a few days at a time, 2 or 3 times a year, so I can deal with it... All the complaints about the "theming or lack thereof" also amuse me... I never seem to see complaints about the theming of the Contemporary... It's theme, when it was built 40 years ago, was Walt Disney's take on modern/futuristic... They wasted more space in that building with "the grand canyon" concourse... No one seems to have issues with that, perhaps because it is a WDW icon... Everyone loves the Polynesian... I do too... I remember staying there when I was younger than my own kids... It hasn't changed all that much since then... It kind of looks cheesy today, but again it is a WDW icon so we are inclined to accept it's cheesiness as part of its charm.

BLT's decor is a 21st century update of the Contemporary theme... People seem to love the cheesy appeal of Pop Century and the All-Star properties with their oversized decor... To me, it's like nails on a chalkboard... I do like PO Riverside and Caribbean Beach... AKL, WL are really cool and over the top on the theme side. But I think Jambo House is very dark and the horseshoe shape can be a huge negative when I'm carrying 40+ extra pounds of conked out kid back to the room at the end of the day... I've never stayed at WL, but the lobby is really cool as is the pool area... BW does not really appeal to me... I grew up spending my summers on the boardwalks of South Jersey and while Disney did a nice job attempting to recreate that feel, it's just not the same... I don't understand the appeal of Beach Club (from a building perspective)... There doesn't seem to be anything that wows me in the building... I've walked through the pool area and it is spectacular looking (my kids drool everytime we walk by SAB)... I do like the idea of being able to walk to DHS or Epcot (as I enjoy the walk from BLT to MK), but that alone wouldn't sell me...

I guess what I am trying to say is, to each his own... Every Disney hotel has pros and cons, and those are going to vary according to the tastes of each individual... I just still don't understand the disdain that BLT sparks in some people... I understand people not liking the building and choosing not to stay there again... I'm talking about the people who will take the one or two things they dislike and turn it into a near venomous rant against everything in the building...

 

[Brian Noble]

The simplest explanation for BLT selling well is that it sells well. Guides get some form of incentive pay---so they are likely to try to sell the thing that most people want to buy first. The company is positively addicted to the bottom-line impact of healthy DVC sales, so they aren't about to tell Guides to *stop* selling what sells well.

I do expect continued distinctions to be drawn between direct and secondary-market deeds, but as with other systems, I expect it to be a death by a thousand cuts rather than an amputation.

 

[dizfan]

I don't see a tiered resort system coming any time soon.

We've seen marketing promote the ability to trade into other resorts before. As long as people continue to report success buying the lowest price resale and then booking the "location" resorts, Disney will use it to the all inclusive system to their advantage.

I do believe Brian is right in regards to more changes gradually coming to the direct vs. resale tiered system.

 

[Starr W.]

I do expect continued distinctions to be drawn between direct and secondary-market deeds, but as with other systems, I expect it to be a death by a thousand cuts rather than an amputation.

I think the March 20th rules are just the start.

 

[Sammie]

I've stayed at all 3 of the resorts being discussed here... Based upon what I saw, they ALL have wear & tear... Our 1BR villa at AKL had stains in the carpet and on the couch and one of the control covers on the BR TV was broken off... Was it a big deal??? NO!!! Our 1BR villa at SSR had a tear in the sofa cushion and scratches on the furniture... It also had some nasty black flakes (mold???) that would shoot from the jets in the whirlpool tub. Again, was it a big deal??? NO!!! (the mold flakes did lead me to say something to the front desk, but they didn't have an impact on my trip...) I've stayed in a studio, 1BR and 2BR (lock-off) at BLT and I've also seen some wear and tear issues... Stains on sofas, carpets and scratched furniture happen in a hotel/rental environment...

Perhaps I have a different perspective than some people here because I've owned other "beach resort" properties that have been rented out in the past... Many people fret over potential increases in maintenance fees... I realize that the economy has gotten tighter and that many who own DVC properties are stretching their own financial limits, but increases in maintenance fees are spread over the year among all point owners... I'm used to having to fix/replace problems immediately, all on my dime... Also, the beach rental market is very competitive... When the property management company makes a "recommendation" to maximize your property's rental potential, that's code for "do it or we stop pushing your property up the foodchain"... I spent plenty on cash over the years on first VCRs, then DVD players followed by satellite TV (DirecTV)... Not to mention "freshening the paint", replacing missing silverware & dishes, deep-cleaning the carpets and upholstery and repairing/replacing plumbing and HVAC...

Do I regret owning beach houses and renting them out??? Not one bit... Sure, it was a PITA when the big bills came flying my way, but for the most part the houses paid for themselves once they were established in the marketplace... I wouldn't recommend doing this as a retirement plan, but it provided my family with easy, relatively cheap vacations for many years... I sold these properties just prior to the RE market collapse cool1 and bought points in DVC... Life is much easier in this program... It's not a traditional timeshare that locks me into certain locations/times... I can vacation as I please... I realize that excessive wear & tear could cause the maintenance fees to increase, but it will never be the ebb and flow it was when I was the sole owner of a property...

After reading these boards, I am still baffled by the response to BLT... There seems to be a love/hate relationship with the building... Some love the place, some hate the place and well, some love to hate the place... The sales pace never surprised me... It is easily the most visible DVC property at WDW... Rule #1 in real estate... Location, location, location... That's why I bought there... I wouldn't say that I love the decor of the building, but I don't live there for more than a few days at a time, 2 or 3 times a year, so I can deal with it... All the complaints about the "theming or lack thereof" also amuse me... I never seem to see complaints about the theming of the Contemporary... It's theme, when it was built 40 years ago, was Walt Disney's take on modern/futuristic... They wasted more space in that building with "the grand canyon" concourse... No one seems to have issues with that, perhaps because it is a WDW icon... Everyone loves the Polynesian... I do too... I remember staying there when I was younger than my own kids... It hasn't changed all that much since then... It kind of looks cheesy today, but again it is a WDW icon so we are inclined to accept it's cheesiness as part of its charm.

BLT's decor is a 21st century update of the Contemporary theme... People seem to love the cheesy appeal of Pop Century and the All-Star properties with their oversized decor... To me, it's like nails on a chalkboard... I do like PO Riverside and Caribbean Beach... AKL, WL are really cool and over the top on the theme side. But I think Jambo House is very dark and the horseshoe shape can be a huge negative when I'm carrying 40+ extra pounds of conked out kid back to the room at the end of the day... I've never stayed at WL, but the lobby is really cool as is the pool area... BW does not really appeal to me... I grew up spending my summers on the boardwalks of South Jersey and while Disney did a nice job attempting to recreate that feel, it's just not the same... I don't understand the appeal of Beach Club (from a building perspective)... There doesn't seem to be anything that wows me in the building... I've walked through the pool area and it is spectacular looking (my kids drool everytime we walk by SAB)... I do like the idea of being able to walk to DHS or Epcot (as I enjoy the walk from BLT to MK), but that alone wouldn't sell me...

I guess what I am trying to say is, to each his own... Every Disney hotel has pros and cons, and those are going to vary according to the tastes of each individual... I just still don't understand the disdain that BLT sparks in some people... I understand people not liking the building and choosing not to stay there again... I'm talking about the people who will take the one or two things they dislike and turn it into a near venomous rant against everything in the building...

You say you have stayed at all 3 resorts. Did you stay at all three shortly after each opened. If not then you would not be able to see what I was referring to.

There is a lot to like about BLT, but there is no way around it, even the first month it opened it looked worn. The same thing happened at HHI with the intial carpet in the units. It did not wear well either and eventually was replaced.

Simply put DVC did not buy quality product for BLT. It has nothing to do with liking or not liking the resort, the furniture is just not wearing well.

Sadly DVC upper management was warned by the team that worked on BLT that the products chosen were not going to hold up to wear and tear, and they were ignored.

It is not even a style of decor situation, it is a quality of product. Which is a shame for such a great location.