TSA mess and the police

[DMRick]

First of all - security.. I have seen no proof (as of yet) that these new measures (specifically the enhanced pat downs) will be effective in terms of increasing the safety of anyone.. If you have seen something - online, here, or the other boards you frequent - I promise you I will read the link(s) that you provide.. I don't even recall people saying, "Oh, I feel much, much safer with these new measures.." - but again, it may be out there and I have missed it.. If so, I'll be happy to read those links as well..

Just go upthread a bit. Just in the past couple of days two people have said they like the extra security. One was just a few posts ago. I have no idea if this is increasing the safety, because I have no idea if anyone has been discouraged from bringing on something they shouldn't. I may have misunderstood what she was saying, but I thought Pearl just said she appreciated the security.

Let's say one of you ended up with colon cancer and had to wear a colostomy bag.. You're at the airport and you are randomly selected for a pat down (since it has been established that flyers are being chosen "randomly" - not just for something obvious).. I'll be generous and say they take you to a private area (which isn't always the case).. You or your DH are forced to pull your pants and underwear down - so your bag can be inspected (even though their site claims that they don't do this).. The pat down dislodges the bag - you now have feces running down your leg and all over your clothes - and you have no choice but to leave that area with soiled clothes and your colostomy bag no longer intact.. Would that change the way you feel about what others are being faced with right now?

You know so little about my family, I'm not sure why you would think you would know if this is something that has affected our family. My family medical history isn't up for sharing on a community board, and I don't intend to talk about why this affects us other than saying I feel the way I feel based on many things. I'm actually not sure just what you think I feel. I said I am ok with the scan and pat down..I'm talking about for me and mine. If the scan indicated that someone in my family needed an enhanced pat down, then they would willingly have one, and in fact we have been pulled aside into a room. That said, and I don't intend to go into it further, I have said several times on this thread that it's obvious that some of the agents need further sensitivity training. I never said I feel that what has happened to some is OK. Is it cool that someone had their bag drip (although I thought it was urine, not feces, but I could be wrong) after it was knocked into? Of course not. No one on this board has said that at all.

I think the problem is that we're looking at it from two different angles.. You are looking at it from the angle of a person who doesn't suffer from any of the issues previously mentioned and I assume (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) that the majority of your family members that fly (with the exception of your sister that you mentioned previously) also don't have personal or medical issues that would result in the scenario I have described above..

As I said, you don't know me or my family and yes you would be wrong that there are no medical problems that would hold us up at a scan. I just don't share my personal family problems/medical records on the Dis. You would be correct though that it's not the majority of my family members, although I'm not sure what it being the 'majority' of my family has to do with anything.

Throw in the fact that terrorists tend to stay one step ahead of us, they know what the new procedures are - so where do you think they will hide their "weapons of destruction" now? There's pretty much only one place left (other than the cargo section of the airplanes) - body cavities.. At which point "what" will have to be searched before you can board a plane?? The TSA have no place to go from here - other than strip searches with body cavity searches.. Are you prepared for that next" step? We never thought we would even get to this step - yet here we are..

Just because I am ok with this step, as said earlier, doesn't mean I would be with another one. I'm not sure why people think that. And again, we have no idea if there is a specific reason this step has been taken, since everything isn't shared with us.

As for people posting copyrighted items, I believe someone asked someone not to, and explained how some could be posted to get the interest and the rest be a URL. Most of us don't want to see a post being reported that would make the thread be closed. And it seems most people agree they would like it to stay open.

 

[OceanAnnie]

[/B]
Just go upthread a bit. Just in the past couple of days two people have said they like the extra security. One was just a few posts ago. I have no idea if this is increasing the safety, because I have no idea if anyone has been discouraged from bringing on something they shouldn't. I may have misunderstood what she was saying, but I thought Pearl just said she appreciated the security.
[/B]

You know so little about my family, I'm not sure why you would think you would know if this is something that has affected our family. My family medical history isn't up for sharing on a community board, and I don't intend to talk about why this affects us. If the scan indicated that someone in my family needed an enhanced pat down, then they would willingly have one, and in fact we have been pulled aside into a room. That said, and I don't intend to go into it further, I have said several times on this thread that it's obvious that some of the agents need further sensitivity training. Is it cool that someone had their bag drip (although I thought it was urine, not feces, but I could be wrong) after it was knocked into? Of course not. No one on this board has said that at all.

As I said, you don't know me or my family and yes you would be wrong that there are no medical problems that would hold us up at a scan. I just don't share my personal family problems/medical records on the Dis.



Just because I am ok with this step, as said earlier, doesn't mean I would be with another one. I'm not sure why people think that. And again, we have no idea if there is a specific reason this step has been taken, since everything isn't shared with us.

As for people posting copyrighted items, I believe someone asked someone not to, and explained how some could be posted to get the interest and the rest be a URL. Most of us don't want to see a post being reported that would make the thread be closed. And it seems most people agree they would like it to stay open.

Is this personal preference? People have been posting articles and links here for YEARS. Never has been an issue.

 

[DMRick]

ya know, there are folks saying that all the intrusiveness and even more is worth it so another plane isn't destroyed, with all aboard. Is that the fear mongering you mean?

No, and I think most people know it's way more than that. However, to be fair, that is why some say they feel safer with more security, so on the other side, that could also be causing fear when people say the above about a destroyed plane.

 

[DMRick]

Is this personal preference? People have been posting articles and links here for YEARS. Never has been an issue.

You are right, and most times the thread isn't reported because it isn't as uh, debated as this one is. However, since these TSA threads have almost all ended up closed, I don't want any reason to close this one...do you? I don't want to give the mods any reason to close it.

 

[OceanAnnie]

You are right, and most times the thread isn't reported because it isn't as uh, debated as this one is. However, since these TSA threads have almost all ended up closed, I don't want any reason to close this one...do you? I don't want to give the mods any reason to close it.

So you are saying a thread could be reported and closed because of a shared article? I wasn't aware of a rule against posting articles.

 

[DMRick]

Not exactly . . . a good friend of mine is paraplegic and uses a power chair. He flies regularly for his consulting job. The airlines have special chairs and provide assistance. it may be because they want his business but it is also because they are required by law.

That's good to hear. I wonder how SW got away with not letting someone fly (although it sounds like your friend was able to be taken out of his chair?). She couldn't get out of her chair and it didn't fit in the door. They told her she couldn't fly. I'm not sure how they could have helped her. It held us up for awhile, but it just didn't happen.

 

[C.Ann]

Just go upthread a bit. Just in the past couple of days two people have said they like the extra security. One was just a few posts ago. I have no idea if this is increasing the safety, because I have no idea if anyone has been discouraged from bringing on something they shouldn't. I may have misunderstood what she was saying, but I thought Pearl just said she appreciated the security.

Just because I am ok with this step, as said earlier, doesn't mean I would be with another one. I'm not sure why people think that. And again, we have no idea if there is a specific reason this step has been taken, since everything isn't shared with us.

As for people posting copyrighted items, I believe someone asked someone not to, and explained how some could be posted to get the interest and the rest be a URL. Most of us don't want to see a post being reported that would make the thread be closed. And it seems most people agree they would like it to stay open.

Only two people?

Following a logical sequence - which got us to where we are today - I think the next step should be fairly obvious..

No need to know your family medical history.. You've mentioned your DH's CPAP machine on the DIS several times - as well as an issue or two with your DD - and issues your sister has to deal with, but I created a "scenario" on a "what if" basis..

It was a hypothetical question/situation.. Hypothetical question that you chose not to answer.. Not a rerun of the poor man that was humiliated with the ostomy bag with the urine.. People have these bags for feces as well - which would be even more humiliating since it's not just "wet" clothing - you have odor as well..

However, I'm a firm believer that no one here on the DIS is ever "obligated" to answer a question if they don't care to.. People are free to say, "I chose not to answer that question" - and that's all the response that's needed.. It appears you have done that and I will respect that decision..

Copyright issues? I have yet to see a moderator or webmaster indicate this is not allowed or inappropriate (and I think several have even posted on this thread - and many, many others with copyrighted items), so until we're told otherwise - by someone with the authority to do so, I don't think there's any danger of this thread being closed for that reason..

 

[DMRick]

So you are saying a thread could be reported and closed because of a shared article? I wasn't aware of a rule against posting articles.

Are you saying that threads are only ever closed because of a written rule? You don't think if a debate started on if it's copyright legal to post all the articles that are getting posted (in their full) that that wouldn't get a thread closed? You don't think that as this turns more and more into a debate, if someone did start to report threads it wouldn't give a mod a reason to just say enough and close it?

All of that aside, copyright issues have closed threads.

I am just saying that I want the thread to stay open and if someone starts commenting on anything that could give reason to closer it, I would be disappointed. Wouldn't you?

 

[DMRick]

Only two people

I said in the past couple of days. I didn't say they were the only ones LOL.

No need to know your family medical history.. You've mentioned your DH's CPAP machine on the DIS several times - as well as an issue or two with your DD

I mentioned my husband has a cpap, but never said why. Please show me where I mentioned my daughters medical history on the dis publicly, other than something that was not a private issue like when she got her flu vaccine. I may have told you in a pm, since I actually knew you, but not to the dis.

It was a hypothetical question/situation.. Hypothetical question that you chose not to answer.. Not a rerun of the poor man that was humiliated with the ostomy bag with the urine.. People have these bags for feces as well - which would be even more humiliating since it's not just "wet" clothing - you have odor as well..

I answered it. I'll answer it better. No, if myself or a member of my family was pulled aside for a pat down, if they had the problem you mentioned, it would not change my mind. It would encourage me further to ask for sensitivity training.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Are you saying that threads are only ever closed because of a written rule? You don't think if a debate started on if it's copyright legal to post all the articles that are getting posted (in their full) that that wouldn't get a thread closed? You don't think that as this turns more and more into a debate, if someone did start to report threads it wouldn't give a mod a reason to just say enough and close it?

You stated a lot there. I wasn't "saying" anything. I asked a simple question. I didn't know you were speaking about a debate on "copyright". I don't recall seeing any debates on the issue on the DIS. I did think you were speaking of a broken rule.

All of that aside, copyright issues have closed threads.

News to me. Thanks, I guess.

I am just saying that I want the thread to stay open and if someone starts commenting on anything that could give reason to closer it, I would be disappointed. Wouldn't you?

Honestly, there have been enough "passionate" comments that could've flipped the switch long ago. I'd be surprised if mention of copyright after all of "this", would close the thread. I asked because I wanted to know.

No, I don't want to see it closed.

 

[DMRick]

- and issues your sister has to deal with,

And just to be clear, I mentioned my sister didn't fly. I didn't say she had a medical reason, nor have I ever shared anything about my sister's medical record (or lack of one) on the Dis or with you privately.

 

[DMRick]

Honestly, there has been enough "passionate" comments that could've flipped the switch long ago. I'd be surprised if mention of copyright after all of "this", would close the thread. I asked because I wanted to know.

No, I don't want to see it closed.

It might not by itself, but it seems arguing over just about anything has been closing these threads. And I happen to believe that if someone was really upset about copyright issues it could tip the scale. Like you, I don't want it closed. YMMV, and it's no skin off my nose, if people want to post whole aritcles. I do know the copyright law, but it's not something that would affect me, so knock yourself (general self LOL) out. Several times the links didn't work, so it was helpful to have them posted in full.

 

[OceanAnnie]

It might not by itself, but it seems arguing over just about anything has been closing these threads. And I happen to believe that if someone was really upset about copyright issues it could tip the scale. Like you, I don't want it closed. YMMV, and it's no skin off my nose, if people want to post whole aritcles. I do know the copyright law, but it's not something that would affect me, so knock yourself (general self LOL) out. Several times the links didn't work, so it was helpful to have them posted in full.

Who's arguing? I asked a question.

 

[C.Ann]

Well if this copyright issue is such a major infraction that could shut down nearly every thread on the DIS, how about we all just stop talking about it?

Has nothing to do with the subject of this TSA thread (just the personal preferences of 2 or 3 people trying to impose it on others), and if there "is" an issue, I'm sure a mod or webmaster would at least post a warning before shutting down pretty much every thread on the DIS.. The "soap spoilers" would really be in trouble.. They don't even post the link - and that info is from copyrighted material as well..

 

[DMRick]

Who's arguing? I asked a question.

You weren't arguing. Didn't mean to make it sound like you were

 

[DMRick]

And I assume no one on that board has had an objection. Someone on this board did (you had mentioned earlier you didn't want to read the back posts you missed (or I think that was you..maybe it wasn't), so maybe you missed that). Like I said, I don't care what anyone does. I just don't want any excuses for this board to be closed. If someone objecting to copyright problems doesn't cause anyone to debate about it, (or it does, and no mod cares) than good for us and this thread.

Well if this copyright issue is such a major infraction that could shut down nearly every thread on the DIS, how about we all just stop talking about it?

Has nothing to do with the subject of this TSA thread (just the personal preferences of 2 or 3 people trying to impose it on others), and if there "is" an issue, I'm sure a mod or webmaster would at least post a warning before shutting down pretty much every thread on the DIS.. The "soap spoilers" would really be in trouble.. They don't even post the link - and that info is from copyrighted material as well..

 

[OceanAnnie]

You weren't arguing. Didn't mean to make it sound like you were

Thanks.

On a different note, this is an interesting article:

"Travelers willing to pay for the privilege will once again have their own line at DIA security checkpoints and quicker access to the screening lanes when the general passenger line to the checkpoints is long."

"To use the special lane, Clear members must submit to an iris scan and fingerprinting to get a registered-traveler card. The new Clear is charging fliers $179 for a year. Clear has kiosks at the south end of DIA's terminal to enroll new customers and has installed card readers at the two checkpoints in the terminal."

http://www.denverpost.com/news/frontpage/ci_16738522

 

[C.Ann]

Thanks.

On a different note, this is an interesting article:

"Travelers willing to pay for the privilege will once again have their own line at DIA security checkpoints and quicker access to the screening lanes when the general passenger line to the checkpoints is long."

"To use the special lane, Clear members must submit to an iris scan and fingerprinting to get a registered-traveler card. The new Clear is charging fliers $179 for a year. Clear has kiosks at the south end of DIA's terminal to enroll new customers and has installed card readers at the two checkpoints in the terminal."

http://www.denverpost.com/news/frontpage/ci_16738522

Darn! I thought it was going to be a way around the screening process, but I guess not.. It would be worth it if it were!

 

[OceanAnnie]

I will say there is always a way to make a fast buck.

 

[olwyngdh]

Thanks.

On a different note, this is an interesting article:

"Travelers willing to pay for the privilege will once again have their own line at DIA security checkpoints and quicker access to the screening lanes when the general passenger line to the checkpoints is long."

"To use the special lane, Clear members must submit to an iris scan and fingerprinting to get a registered-traveler card. The new Clear is charging fliers $179 for a year. Clear has kiosks at the south end of DIA's terminal to enroll new customers and has installed card readers at the two checkpoints in the terminal."

http://www.denverpost.com/news/frontpage/ci_16738522

I consider this a *lot* more invasive than the scans and pat downs. Those are pretty much anonymous, this is too big brother tracking for me. But then, I won't get a auto thing for toll roads either because I don't think some computer somewhere needs to be recording where and when I am going.