TSA mess and the police

[DMRick]

If you didn't know how "enhanced" it would be, did you really know? Might it be accurate to say that you, like me, were aware changes were coming?

I knew enough that it didn't come as a surprise to me, just from the talks n the boards. If we are just talking about just the pat downs, I didn't know how enhanced they were going to be for some people (remember, not everyone, in fact very few need the enhanced..those are only for certain reasons) but then being wanded was pretty personal to me too. Not much was missed. When my son went to LA on his last trip, he only needed the new scanner (and he picked that because the line was shorter). He's usually profiled (yeah, I know they don't profile) so this took much less time. He was not patted down. Most are not. Of course if you leave a metal golf tee in your pocket, you prob will be.

If we are talking about the new scanners, I've known about them for a long time, and that they would show what they show. And still I choose to fly.

 

[LuvOrlando]

But, respectfully, you effectively hide your head in the sand with regards to news because it's biased, but then put complete faith in a few YouTube videos? Keep in mind, some of those are from persons with some type of agenda: John Tyner puts his cell phone on 'record' and puts in on top of his luggage before it goes through the normal carry-on screening - for what purpose? That other San Diego passenger (name eludes me) planned to strip down to his underwear. The boy who was supposedly "strip" searched? His own father removed his shirt, not at the behest of the TSA.

But again, it's interesting that you don't consider any of that biased or one-sided, but the news is? If you pick and choose what news you read, it's disingenuous to claim you weren't informed. Chances are, this WAS 'in the news' available to you long before October 29.

Personally, I do have much more faith in rank and file human beings. I don't know what you see when you watch these videos but I don't see agendas doing the invasive pat downs, escorting people off lines or threatening fines in the thousands of dollars. I don't see agendas driving kids into crying fits and if I did decide to fly it wouldn't be an agenda standing there with gloved hands waiting to greet me. I don't know what you see but I see people and people are the only thing I am really interested in anyway.

If a picture is worth a thousand words a video on You Tube is worth a million.

 

[kaytieeldr]

If you didn't know how "enhanced" it would be, did you really know? Might it be accurate to say that you, like me, were aware changes were coming?

Well, I've known for a while, although I couldn't say how long, that patdowns were going to change to involve the front of the hand and be more intensive than what I've experienced in the past. I still chose to plan a trip that involves airline passage.

I don't care that/if someone in a secluded room sees an image of me effectively unclothed. I may be less than thrilled about not being able to choose my own TSO to do the pat-down if one is required, but I can certainly understand why they prohibit opposite-sex patdowns (so, so, so many people are sexualizing a procedure that, well, has nothing to do with sex at all).

 

[CPT Tripss]

One kid partially undressed was done by the kid's own father, not any TSA officer or at the direction or request of any TSA officer. One - as far as I'm aware - insulin pump incident and one traumatic mishandling of a urostomy bag. Not multiples.

While the latter two aren't excusable by any means, they're isolated incidents, not multiple occurrences that inappropriate pluralizing would have one believe. And leave the kid-undressed out of any discussion, since his father did that.

There have, in fact been multiple ostomy incidents. The "Ostomy Association" (sorry I don't know their exact name has been trying to get TSA to educate their screeners for quite some time now. Understandibly, not many people that have such an indignity thrust on them are willing to have publicity. And, until recently, the media didn't cover TSA checkpoint incidents much.

As for the shirt kid. Dad should have been told to get him dressed again . . . that's what TSA does with adults.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Personally, I do have much more faith in rank and file human beings. I don't know what you see when you watch these videos but I don't see agendas doing the invasive pat downs, escorting people off lines or threatening fines in the thousands of dollars. I don't see agendas driving kids into crying fits and if I did decide to fly it wouldn't be an agenda standing there with gloved hands waiting to greet me. I don't know what you see but I see people and people are the only thing I am really interested in anyway.

If a picture is worth a thousand words a video on You Tube is worth a million.

Again, you see a few people - some pretty apparently WITH agendas - and choose to trust that they're entirely unbiased, yet pick and choose what news you read and then complain that you weren't informed because the news is - biased?

The crying child - reported to be seven, not four as presumed on this board - was undergoing the standard (not enhanced) random patdown. HIS FATHER removed the boy's shirt because he wouldn't stop crying, so the TSA officers could see he wasn't hiding anything. Sure, it was done in frustration - but it was the parent's decision. Nobody from the TSA wanted or expected that action.

John Tyner. You really think he didn't have an agenda? He checked the airport website to see whether they had the AITs; the website said no (apparently not up-to-date). Now, I haven't seen any timeline relating ticket purchase to website check. Anyway, he got to the airport, found out they had the backscatter scanners, so before putting his carry-on luggage through the x-ray machine activate the 'record' feature of his cell phone and placed it on top of his bag. Is there really no agenda or bias there? Really? If he wasn't expecting a confrontation of some type, why would he carefully arrange to record the interaction?

 

[kaytieeldr]

As for the shirt kid. Dad should have been told to get him dressed again . . . that's what TSA does with adults.

Okay. Since it's a brief third party tape, there's no way to know that/if he was.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Hope these links make it . . . ostomy incidents . . .
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/15223052-post40.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/15223426-post42.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/15224453-post45.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/15226066-post50.html

This is from that thread . . .

I agree with the statement that an ostomy is our PERSONAL business and not that of any other human being , unless we chose to inform them of it. It should be a private thing, but it nolonger is. We are forced to divulge information to these total strangers and even show it to them, sometimes having to give samples of the contents. Why? For National Security. Trust me, I am no terrorist and the thought of being on a plane with one scares me enough that I will drop trough and show them what they want to see. Give them the contents (will save me from having to race to the bathroom right after) and do what I have to do to help ensure that the flights are safe. Do I like it? NO. Should I be treated like a cow going to slaughter, NO. Should I be treated with dignity, respect and given the proper privacy? HELL YES>
I work hard , voluntarily, daily to try to instill change in these policies. Not just the airports, but anywhere. I may be naive to believe that it is making any difference, but I have seen areas that it has, so I keep on, as do many who have the same desires as I do.
Like with anything, the more they hear it, the more they see it and the more it is shown to them, they are going to absorb it. Unfortunately, some jack((*& is going to attempt to put something in a bag and adhere it to their abdomen. They are going to attempt this, just as they have with baby bottles and formula. Hell, they took lighters away for the longest time, but allowed matches (which to me, is more dangerous than a lighter)........

Security is what security is........ but we , as Americans must still continue to fight for the dignity , respect, and overall compassion that any person deserves no matter if they have an ostomy, breast implant, prosthetic leg, titanium knees or anything else that has altered their body..... behind all the outer shell is a HUMAN BEING and we have always prided our country for a great deal more than we are giving the born citizens at this time.

so, those with ostomies or other prosthetics must be taken to the level of exposing very personal things when they really would rather not have to. It is 100% OUR business and no one else's unless we chose to show it or tell it...... but we are forced into a show and tell. We do what we must do. This is about ostomies, this all started because someone with one was publicly humiliated and then it was taken further and that person was shoved out into the masses with waste on them...... That is wrong. That is wrong in so many ways, it is indescribable. But, how are we going to change it? We have to speak up. We have to make sure that they hear it every single time they are faced with it so that they remember it. Make sure that it sinks in and that it comes to the surface when they see the next one....

May we , one day , see a change in this...........

writer is an officer with The United Ostomy Associations of America, Inc (www.ostomy.org )

 

[Tinkerdreams]

My BIG concern is with the employees of TSA. Are these people given evaluations before being hired? How do we know they aren't perverts in some way?

I know of 2 recent incidents of a man that was a child molester working at a cay care Uh, hello???

Another incident was an elder in a church that viewed porn at work. Not to say its the same thing but its another hello????

So we have people viewing us in our altogether AND getting very personal in the pat down. Has anyone approached the subject in this regard?

What happens when someone decides to put an explosive inside themselves - similar to how drugs are smuggled. Does this scanner pick that up? If not, what's the next step - internal examinations?

It may sound ridiculous but if someone is determined they will go to extremes and at this point nothing would surprise me.

I'm all for safety but where is the line drawn?

 

[CPT Tripss]

Again, you see a few people - some pretty apparently WITH agendas - and choose to trust that they're entirely unbiased, yet pick and choose what news you read and then complain that you weren't informed because the news is - biased?

...

John Tyner. You really think he didn't have an agenda? ...

Many, if not all, of the posters here owe a lot that we now take for granted to "people with agendas!"

 

[Geoff_M]

And the octopi don't show up on a WTMD . . .

True, but I confess that I've never had the urge to stuff a half-boiled cephalopod wrapped in Saran Wrap down my pants!!!

 

[OceanAnnie]

CPT, that statement can be taken several ways and still be correct.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Okay. Since it's a brief third party tape, there's no way to know that/if he was.

The Transportation Security Administration would not comment directly, but recently released a statement regarding the incident, saying:

"On Friday November 19 a father and son presented at a TSA checkpoint at SLC. The child alarmed as he walked through the metal detector. The father removed his son's shirt in order to speed up the screening process. Once screening was complete, both proceeded to the gate for their flight."

http://www.fox13now.com/news/local/...t-down-young-boy-without-shirt,0,469553.story

 

[C.Ann]

Hope these links make it . . . ostomy incidents . . .
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/15223052-post40.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/15223426-post42.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/15224453-post45.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/15226066-post50.html

This is from that thread . . .

writer is an officer with The United Ostomy Associations of America, Inc (www.ostomy.org )

I read each and every one of those links.. I only wish that you had posted the full comments - associated with the links - right here, as I'm sure there are many who won't bother to read them..

How did I feel by the time I was done reading?

No one deserves that type of humiliation simply because they have a medical condition and purchased an airline ticket..

Those with diabetes pumps and/or supplies? Beware - you really need to read those links..

 

[skater]

Just how many incidents do there need to be before this is recognized as a problem?

("The answer my friend is blowin' in the wind .... ).

 

[eliza61]

Just how many incidents do there need to be before this is recognized as a problem?

("The answer my friend is blowin' in the wind .... ).

who said it wasn't a problem. I think pretty much every one agrees that there are issues that need to be corrected.

It seem you're more upset that we don't see it as the downfall to civilization.

 

[eliza61]

Many, if not all, of the posters here owe a lot that we now take for granted to "people with agendas!"

Very true but agendas work best if the are based on facts and mutual understanding.

I wonder how well the civil rights movement would have worked if instead of stressing equality, love and non violence we would have run around screaming all white people are racist KKK members lynching us and all white men in the south are raping black women.

Even though those incidents may have happened that is not what we made the agenda about.

 

[skater]

who said it wasn't a problem. I think pretty much every one agrees that there are issues that need to be corrected.

It seem you're more upset that we don't see it as the downfall to civilization.

Come on, I don't think I was quite that dramatic . Although ... now that you mention it ...

There are some on here, who portray (unless I'm reading them wrong) that those of us who see a problem are simply being selfish or foolish or fear mongering. That's who I was sort of addressing. It was also a little rhetorical.

And I surely dont' see it as the downfall to civilization , but I do think citizens of any country should be alert to possible tyranny from their government. Whether this is tyranny or not can be debated, but we should be the watchdogs IMO.

 

[C.Ann]

Just how many incidents do there need to be before this is recognized as a problem?

("The answer my friend is blowin' in the wind .... ).

Best scenario I can come up with is that this will have to be a direct negative experience for a family member or other loved one (of the nay sayers) and/or the nay sayers will have to experience a horribly humiliating incident themselves with the TSA - and then (and only then) it will be recognized as a "problem.."

 

[skater]

Very true but agendas work best if the are based on facts and mutual understanding.

I wonder how well the civil rights movement would have worked if instead of stressing equality, love and non violence we would have run around screaming all white people are racist KKK members lynching us and all white men in the south are raping black women.

Even though those incidents may have happened that is not what we made the agenda about.

I don't think the civil rights movement was all peace and flowers. And they were also watchdogs for injustices. Most of us on this thread are pointing out the incidents and the potential for abuse - most of us are not screaming that all tsa agents are bad.

 

[skater]

Best scenario I can come up with is that this will have to be a direct negative experience for a family member or other loved one (of the nay sayers) and/or the nay sayers will have to experience a horribly humiliating incident themselves with the TSA - and then (and only then) it will be recognized as a "problem.."

Too bad all the power players in D.C. are not required to go through the scanners/pat downs. Or their kids. Guess some really are more equal than others.