TSA mess and the police

[LuvOrlando]

She'll receive a higher dose of radiation just flying on the plane than she will using the WBI machines.

So more is better, is that it?

Radiation IS cumulative so every little bit more is bad.

 

[ccgirl]

My "guess" would be that the union is incorrectly informed as to the facts. If you need a definitive answer, you could try contacting the union.

Very true. I did a lot of research on the scanners so I could make an informed decision. To me, unions are special interest groups. Depending on flying altitude, one pass thru the backscat is equal to 2 minutes of flying time. You can google flying radiation and there are tons of info out there.

As to the poster stating, "egg damaging x-rays" please do some research before you add to the mass hysteria.

You do kind of sound like you're shouting...

FWIW, I was amused but not offended by what I saw on the news about the new screening procedures. There's a world of difference between a woman running her palms under your breasts and up the inside of your legs, and actually being "molested". I think it's important not to equate the two. When you call this "groping" and suggest that it's the same as sexual molestation, you're implying some very ugly things about TSA agents as a whole. That's not fair. Think about it - you're actually saying your relative is now a child molester and should be arrested because he or she has had to pat down children in the course of his or her job.

My kids and I are highly unlikely to be be traumatized by being touched in a professional capacity by a stranger. We also think it'd be hilarious to see what we look like in a "naked" scanner (except sadly passengers never get to see anyone's scans)!

However, I also know that what's not a big deal for us can be a very big deal for other people, depending on their personal boundaries and culture.

I imagine devout Muslim women are having a particularly difficult time flying these days.

My personal stance on it comes down to the fact that airlines are private companies. They can set their own rules. I can choose whether or not to use them, based on whether I can abide by their rules or not. If I don't like it, then I won't fly. I'll drive, book passage on a ship, take a bus or a train, or charter a private plane instead.

Just wante to say this is very well put.

 

[Tigge50447]

Just curious can pregnant women go through the x-ray scanner? Also wondering if an implant post in my mouth will make the metal scanner go off?

 

[LuvOrlando]

You do kind of sound like you're shouting...

FWIW, I was amused but not offended by what I saw on the news about the new screening procedures. There's a world of difference between a woman running her palms under your breasts and up the inside of your legs, and actually being "molested". I think it's important not to equate the two. When you call this "groping" and suggest that it's the same as sexual molestation, you're implying some very ugly things about TSA agents as a whole. That's not fair. Think about it - you're actually saying your relative is now a child molester and should be arrested because he or she has had to pat down children in the course of his or her job.

My kids and I are highly unlikely to be be traumatized by being touched in a professional capacity by a stranger. We also think it'd be hilarious to see what we look like in a "naked" scanner (except sadly passengers never get to see anyone's scans)!

However, I also know that what's not a big deal for us can be a very big deal for other people, depending on their personal boundaries and culture.

I imagine devout Muslim women are having a particularly difficult time flying these days.

My personal stance on it comes down to the fact that airlines are private companies. They can set their own rules. I can choose whether or not to use them, based on whether I can abide by their rules or not. If I don't like it, then I won't fly. I'll drive, book passage on a ship, take a bus or a train, or charter a private plane instead.

You seem to find a great many things amusing that I do not Magpie. Your impressions do not influence me, either here or about the downtown NYC thing from a while back, I didn't forget. I remember vividly what you find amusing and this just adds to it. It seems I just do not share your particular brand of humor, not only do I not share it I sort of find it disquieting on many levels.

 

[Missy1961]

You do kind of sound like you're shouting...

FWIW, I was amused but not offended by what I saw on the news about the new screening procedures. There's a world of difference between a woman running her palms under your breasts and up the inside of your legs, and actually being "molested". I think it's important not to equate the two. When you call this "groping" and suggest that it's the same as sexual molestation, you're implying some very ugly things about TSA agents as a whole. That's not fair. Think about it - you're actually saying your relative is now a child molester and should be arrested because he or she has had to pat down children in the course of his or her job.

My kids and I are highly unlikely to be be traumatized by being touched in a professional capacity by a stranger. We also think it'd be hilarious to see what we look like in a "naked" scanner (except sadly passengers never get to see anyone's scans)!

However, I also know that what's not a big deal for us can be a very big deal for other people, depending on their personal boundaries and culture.

I imagine devout Muslim women are having a particularly difficult time flying these days.

My personal stance on it comes down to the fact that airlines are private companies. They can set their own rules. I can choose whether or not to use them, based on whether I can abide by their rules or not. If I don't like it, then I won't fly. I'll drive, book passage on a ship, take a bus or a train, or charter a private plane instead.

You make very good points.

However, these aren't the airlines's rules, these are the government rules.

 

[Colleen27]

FWIW, I was amused but not offended by what I saw on the news about the new screening procedures. There's a world of difference between a woman running her palms under your breasts and up the inside of your legs, and actually being "molested". I think it's important not to equate the two. When you call this "groping" and suggest that it's the same as sexual molestation, you're implying some very ugly things about TSA agents as a whole. That's not fair. Think about it - you're actually saying your relative is now a child molester and should be arrested because he or she has had to pat down children in the course of his or her job.

I don't blame the agents, but I'd have a very hard time telling my children that they should be still and submit to the sort of patdowns being described in the complaints about the new policies. We talk to our kids about good touch/bad touch and that no one should be touching certain parts of their bodies, and then we're supposed to turn around and tell them it is okay just this once to let the TSA agent feel our privates if we want to go to Disney World? I do see a problem with that.

 

[Magpie]

You seem to find a great many things amusing that I do not Magpie. Your impressions do not influence me, either here or about the downtown NYC thing from a while back, I didn't forget. I remember vividly what you find amusing and this just adds to it. It seems I just do not share your particular brand of humor, not only do I not share it I sort of find it disquieting on many levels.

Whereas, I actually kind of like you, LuvOrlando.

 

[Heidict]

Sorry, missed the part about them being TSA approved locks. My guess would be that they didn't have the key?

Well, now that doesn't speak well for the TSA.


Personally, I think all the stuff going on is nothing more then window dressing. It gives up the illusion of security. If a terrorist is bound and determined then they will get something on a plane to blow it up. I'm actually surprised that they haven't concentrated more on car bombs to get their point across. Seems much easier.

 

[Jennasis]

Really now? THAT is what you got out of my posts? None of the other stuff? You managed to gloss right over the thoughts behind my posts and dump me into an easily marginalized pool of paranoid parents who should just quiet down? All I can say is no, you are wrong all the way around pretty much about everything you interpreted and pretty much about everything you posted so can you turn that little suggestion for a favor back onto yourself?

FYI, I am very close to a TSA agent. This person happens to be a family member BTW, it's a good job for retired folks. As much as I like this person and as much as I KNOW he is of pure mind and soul I STILL am not ok with him groping my kid.

Everytime you refer to people being "groped" by a TSA agent you DO come off as a wee-bit paranoid, inflammatory and confrontational...at least IMHO.

I ABSOLUTELY understand your unwillingness to be touched by another individual, and I understand your reluctance to submit to the "x-ray". However you've offered no alternative and neither has anyone else. Since you are so against the current practices in place it would seem that for now, you will have to refrain from flying. If that isn't an option, I can only suggest going in to the screening process with open-eyes and a vigilant but compliant nature. Document any instance you deem out of order or illegal, speak to a supervisor if necessary (if something untoward does happen) and be prepared to bring the instances to the attention of a good lawyer and the media.

Really, I don't know what else to tell you. it is what it is...isn't it?

 

[Magpie]

I don't blame the agents, but I'd have a very hard time telling my children that they should be still and submit to the sort of patdowns being described in the complaints about the new policies. We talk to our kids about good touch/bad touch and that no one should be touching certain parts of their bodies, and then we're supposed to turn around and tell them it is okay just this once to let the TSA agent feel our privates if we want to go to Disney World? I do see a problem with that.

Well, I would tell them the same thing I told my children when we went to the doctor.

Example, "This is what may happen. This is who will do it to you. I will be right there."

"Good touch, bad touch" doesn't apply in every situation.

On the other hand, I sure wouldn't recommend putting a dress on your daughter when flying, these days! I'd be a lot more comfortable in jeans, myself.

 

[DisneyKT]

I was patted down on my last trip. The TSA agent(female) ask permission before hand, I agreed. No big deal in my opinion. Believe me I have been groped before on the T and it is nothing like TSA pat down.

They also tested my water bottle while I was waiting in line to board the plane. I took no offense to that.
I have had my luggage checked also. No problems but then again it wasn't detroyed.

I just wouldn't fly if I were you. You seem very upset about all factors of air travel.

 

[C.Ann]

I don't blame the agents, but I'd have a very hard time telling my children that they should be still and submit to the sort of patdowns being described in the complaints about the new policies. We talk to our kids about good touch/bad touch and that no one should be touching certain parts of their bodies, and then we're supposed to turn around and tell them it is okay just this once to let the TSA agent feel our privates if we want to go to Disney World? I do see a problem with that.

Valid point.. I never even thought about kids.. And before anyone says it - no - a TSA agent is not the "same" as your child's pediatrician..

My comments were based on what I personally find acceptable - and "groping" isn't on that list.. Go through my luggage; put me in front of a scanner; put me in the "puff" chamber; but no groping, please..

And if there is no way of knowing ahead of time whether I'm going to be selected for groping, my flying days are over.. I have no intentions of ever leaving the country, so there are plenty of other ways to reach any and all destinations..

 

[CathrynRose]

Valid point.. I never even thought about kids.. And before anyone says it - no - a TSA agent is not the "same" as your child's pediatrician..

Agreed. I have a 15 1/2 y.o, who's taller than me - and I still wouldn't feel comfortable with some strange man fondling his (it pains me to type this about my "baby") man-parts.

And yes, IMO - it's fondling. Any disagreement with that is simply semantics.

 

[Jennasis]

Agreed. I have a 15 1/2 y.o, who's taller than me - and I still wouldn't feel comfortable with some strange man fondling his (it pains me to type this about my "baby") man-parts.

And yes, IMO - it's fondling. Any disagreement with that is simply semantics.

Sure it's uncomfortable. But what is the alternative? Heck, a pap smear is uncomfortable, but I do it to keep myself safe/healthy, and I do much more frequently than I fly.

I'm sure someone must have a better idea, right?

 

[CathrynRose]

It was very simple, back of the hand, below the underwire of my bra, back and sides. The TSA agent was a woman, explained what she was doing and I didn't consider it particularly intrusive. I had a choice.

But they *just* changed the "back of hand" pat-down. That's why many of us are a bit disgusted.

Sure it's uncomfortable. But what is the alternative? Heck, a pap smear is uncomfortable, but I do it to keep myself safe/healthy, and I do much more frequently than I fly.

I'm sure someone must have a better idea, right?

I can't compare a Dr's visit to an invasive pat-down from a TSA worker.

And I wish I had a better idea - but I don't.

Interesting interview - http://www.prisonplanet.com/tsa-fondles-women-and-children-refusing-airport-naked-body-scanners.html

 

[ccgirl]

Just curious can pregnant women go through the x-ray scanner? Also wondering if an implant post in my mouth will make the metal scanner go off?

I would consult your OB but from everything I have read it is safe for a pregnant woman. The "radiation" bounces off the body. Hence; the term backscatter. With regular x-rays they are actually designed to penetrate the body. Hence, the reason they are not safe for pregnant women.

We recently flew. I had a pull over hoodie which I could have removed but I was given the option of having a pat down. It was very simple, back of the hand, below the underwire of my bra, back and sides. The TSA agent was a woman, explained what she was doing and I didn't consider it particularly intrusive. I had a choice.
If I were a flight attendant or a pilot, I might be concerned about the body scanner if I had to pass through it several times a week. Do we know what the radiation equivalent is?

The backscatter omits 0.1 microsevert of radiation. By comparison, a chest x-ray omits 100 microverts and a CT Scan 10,000 microverts. The radiation dose for a single backscatter is equal to 2 mintues of flying on an airplane on a cross country flight.

Hope that helps.

 

[Clifton]

I thought Homeland Security were the bullies. Then again, I watch too much TV

 

[mhsjax]

I just have to add... If WE feel as uncomfortable having "the boys" and "the girls" felt up with fury, think how uncomfortable the TSA agents feel, just doing their job and make an honest living.

Please don't make them the bad guy just because they are doing their job. In any line of work, of course, there are good and bad attitudes. Same with the TSA.

Nope sorry, not buying that one. Most of those people aren't even trained to detect something, they have gotten things through them in the past during testing. Why would I allow some woman or man to touch my DD or DS, God help anyone that touches my child like that. I will choose not to fly. This is a dog and pony show, always has been always will be. Just like anything, give people too much power and they will abuse it. It is disgusting.

 

[Jennasis]

But they *just* changed the "back of hand" pat-down. That's why many of us are a bit disgusted.



I can't compare a Dr's visit to an invasive pat-down from a TSA worker.

And I wish I had a better idea - but I don't.

Interesting interview - http://www.prisonplanet.com/tsa-fondles-women-and-children-refusing-airport-naked-body-scanners.html

To the first part, I suppose it's likely because the front of one's hand is better able to feel for foreign objects since it's much more sensitive than the back of the hand.

To the second part, I understand. I feel differently. And as a victim of childhood molestation I can say I am able to distinguish the difference between the thorough pat-down and the horror I suffered for years as a kid. It actually sickens me a bit to see people try to equate the two. But hey, there is no issue on earth that will ever find universal acceptance.

Even my color blind husband occassionally argues with me that the sky isn't blue.

 

[RitaE]

Oh nearly all TSA employees are just fine. I never go into an airport expecting to have a hassle. It is only occasionally that you'll run into the one or two that get their kicks out of screaming and berating people who aren't managing to follow their unwritten and ever changing rules of procedure. Last year my 16year old son got screamed at for not looking enough like his driver's license picture and I do mean screamed at. LOL. Seriously, the poor kid was like "Sorry .... I guess." We teased him that he would have to try harder on the way back home.

I seriously cannot equate these people to a Pediatrician or Gynecologist however. Besides which, when I go to a Gynecologist I have the ability to choose the one I see and they at least sit down to chat with me for 6 minutes or so before getting up close and personal. I'm sure nearly all of the TSA employees are very nice people who simply want to earn their paychecks - just like all of us. They probably aren't even all that thrilled to be spending their day groping and causing discomfort in strangers.

I really don't think it will be long though before we see the first lawsuits of some person with a shady past who manages to get himself hired and then crosses the line examining a kid and I don't think it will be long before those nekid pics from the scanning machines start hitting the internet. Just a hunch.