TSA mess and the police

[ccgirl]

Having just flown this weekend; I did not notice any groping. My husband did get the full body pat down and he likened it to going to a Patriots game. I think there is a difference b/w groping and frisking but that is just me.

 

[C.Ann]

TSA Forces Mother in Wheelchair to Tears with "Enhanced Patdown" Portland ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlXPIgwSKIk

I mean, really? This is okay???

For anyone who thinks this new "pat down" procedure is just fine and dandy,

Please take the time to watch this video!!!!


This is NOT acceptable!! And if you do your research, you will find that there are many, many, many complaints being filed since this more aggressive approach is being instituted..

I also believe that it illustrates my earlier point.. If I were to go to the airport to the the security line - "assuming" that I would be going through the scanner - was then randomly chosen (yes - they are randomly choosing) for a pat down instead and I replied, "Never mind.. I have chosen not fly.." - guess where I would be sitting for who knows how long? Not back in my home, that's for sure!

Please watch this video - research the complaints that are being made - see if you can find the videos of the actual groping that is going on now - and maybe you might reconsider your feelings on this matter..

And for the record, "grope" is the appropriate word for this - regardless of what it conjures up in ones mind.. I checked my dictionary to be certain that "groping" was the correct terminology to describe what I saw myself on the news report the other day - and what numerous people are voicing their complaints and concerns in regards to..

 

[disney11fan]

I was just reading another article about the way the TSA is strong arming people into complying with their methods. I'm all for safety but the agents aren't highly trained, some of them look like they are barely a step up from ... well, they don't look like the TSA is particularly discerning.

Anyway, I don't have a single doubt in my mind that plenty of them are abusing their authority over people. The TSA seems blithely unconcerned with oversight and personal assaults but people still keep filing complaints with the TSA, as if it matters. This makes me wonder, can a citizen file a criminal assault charge against a TSA agent? I think I'd feel better about this knowing that a bad agent could end up in jail but the way it looks to me now, it seems that these TSA agents are wholly unaccountable. As if the airports are under Marshall Law via contractors and i don't like it at all. If the TSA won't restrain them and the State Police have no authority, who does? doesn't matter if your right. you won't win a fight with a tsa agent. do as your asked and you will be fine. i have flown alot and have never seen the tsa abuse anyone. they have a tough job and as far as i can tell...they are well trained and very helpful. no i don't of any by the way...but thankful for the job they do. two thumbs up for tsa

I'm supposed to fly to Aruba next year and have been checking out the airfares but I haven't bought tickets because I AM NOT putting my DS12 and DD11 blindly into the hands of some out of control wackjob knowing I couldn't defend my kid without being arrested. I'm waiting to see what happens. Between the TSA bullies and the radioactive scanners/x-rays and the bedbugs, camping is looking pretty good to me ... I'd rather take my chances in the woods

I like flying & I like Aruba but I am not wading willingly into this mess, not with kids. I wonder if anyone is paying attention to the fact they are costing the airlines business?

i like the tsa

 

[sbell111]

I understand where you are coming from, I also understand that no one is going to touch my 11 yo DD breasts and crouch, no way, no how. Again same for DS.

Then go through the scanner or don't fly. Problem solved.

These agents spent years barely scanning luggage and not even looking at the scanner at the luggage went by, they could have cared less.

Objection. Facts not in evidence.

As a person who has had my carryons re-xrayed and hand searched to verify that nothing inside was forbidden, I have every reason to believe that the average person working the scanner is conscientious.

This is the type of individual that is feeling you up. They have no business,

They have every business. It's there very job to do it. The fact that the crotch bomber was nearly successful makes it a necessity.

Now, if they want to train some Dr's in how to do this, then fine, but sorry Jane and Joe off the street isn't feeling up anyone in my family.

Just how much training do you think it takes to learn how to properly pat someone down. I bet that I could teach the technique in about ten minutes to nearly anyone. You certainly don't need an advanced degree to pat someone down.

Further, by calling this screening technique 'feeling some up', you are inappropriately coloring the situation.

 

[sbell111]

TSA Forces Mother in Wheelchair to Tears with "Enhanced Patdown" Portland ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlXPIgwSKIk

I mean, really? This is okay???

Four minute video of guy riding in a car whining that his mommy was given a patdown and cried.

It didn't change my opinion of the security procedures. Why should it?

 

[TheZue]

The more I read thread, the more it reminds me of the argument over Joey's tailer in Friends.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fANwTBK3Ylg&feature=related

 

[NotUrsula]

For all of you folks who have an issue with the nature of the patdowns, don't waste time and energy grousing about it here. TSA is a government agency, and if you don't like a gov't agency's policies, then as Citizens, you have a way through channels to complain: write to your Congressional Representative.

Actually, not just yours; you should also write to members of the Senate oversight committee that has jurisdiction over TSA; the membership list is here: http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=AboutCommittee.Membership

FTR: I don't think that TSA is full of closeted child molesters (if we're talking criminals, thieves are much more likely), but hysteria will get you NOWHERE with these people. Calling or writing members of Congress and the Senate actually has some chance of getting you the policy change that you're asking for.

 

[mhsjax]

Four minute video of guy riding in a car whining that his mommy was given a patdown and cried.

It didn't cahnge my opinion of the security procedures. Why should it?

Really, wow. I can't imagine how anyone could look at that and be ok with it. That is sick.

 

[Mrs. Charming]

In the morning they sometimes show news clips on the Weather Channel.. It just so happens that I was watching the other day and they were showing the TSA's doing "pat downs" - male to male, female to female - (the real deal - in one of the airports, as it was being done) and the broadcaster was
reporting on the changes they have made in regards to how the hands are used.. No longer sliding - with the backs or sides of the hands.. Full front hands, feeling, squeezing, etc.. My eyes almost popped out of my head.. That's not a "pat down".. That's what used to take place in the back of a Chevy on Lovers Lane..

So if this doesn't catch the "bad guys", what's next? Strip searches and cavity searches? (And the did specifically mention that "cavities" of the body are often places used by terrorists to conceal whatever..)

I believe there are some people that have to go the "pat down" route if they have metal or other medical devices implanted in their bodies, so I don't think everyone has the exact same options..

I don't care about people going through my luggage (I think it's been done on every single flight I've made) - and I don't think the scanner would be a big deal for me either.. But being groped? I guess that's where I draw my line in the sand.. I would not be flying - I would turn around and leave.. And then what? Be hassled and detained for suspicious activity because I decided that I changed my mind?

Mandatory endoscopy is next. You must take a power laxative 12 hours before every flight and be restricted to a clear liquid diet until you pass through the TSA checkpoint.

 

[sbell111]

I also believe that it illustrates my earlier point.. If I were to go to the airport to the the security line - "assuming" that I would be going through the scanner - was then randomly chosen (yes - they are randomly choosing) for a pat down instead and I replied, "Never mind.. I have chosen not fly.." - guess where I would be sitting for who knows how long? Not back in my home, that's for sure!

Actually, I think you would be able to leave, just like that pilot that refused screening. He was told to leave the airport if he wasn't willing to be screened. He wasn't taken into custody.

 

[sbell111]

Really, wow. I can't imagine how anyone could look at that and be ok with it. That is sick.

Look at a guy whining to a video camera as he rides in a car?

 

[CathrynRose]

Actually, I think you would be able to leave, just like that pilot that refused screening. He was told to leave the airport if he wasn't willing to be screened. He wasn't taken into custody.

He was a pilot, with security clearance! You really think your average Joe Schmoe would be sent on his merry way?

 

[C.Ann]

A radio talk show host, Meg McLain reports that she was singled out for enhanced screening at FLL. Her refusal to opt for the scanner resulted in her being hauled into the pat down area. When she questioned this, according to her, she was surrounded by 7 TSA agents and 12 cops, handcuffed to the chair and given a lecture on terrorism. One TSA agent ripped up her airline ticket. While she was cuffed to the chair, no one else was subjected to enhanced screening for an hour because she was taking up the space. She was later escorted out of the airport after having sat there in tears. She said all she did was ask a question. She is described as "attractive" and felt that this was a factor in her selection. She was taken to the ticket counter. She missed her flight and the airline ticket manager was extremely helpful, assuring her that they would get her home tomorrow and then she was escorted from the airport.
How does it end? I don't know. Maybe she is still circling the airport.

 

[sbell111]

A radio talk show host, Meg McLain reports that she was singled out for enhanced screening at FLL. Her refusal to opt for the scanner resulted in her being hauled into the pat down area. When she questioned this, according to her, she was surrounded by 7 TSA agents and 12 cops, handcuffed to the chair and given a lecture on terrorism. One TSA agent ripped up her airline ticket. While she was cuffed to the chair, no one else was subjected to enhanced screening for an hour because she was taking up the space. She was later escorted out of the airport after having sat there in tears. She said all she did was ask a question. She is described as "attractive" and felt that this was a factor in her selection. She was taken to the ticket counter. She missed her flight and the airline ticket manager was extremely helpful, assuring her that they would get her home tomorrow and then she was escorted from the airport.
How does it end? I don't know. Maybe she is still circling the airport.

There's always more to the story. For instance, what was that 'one question'? What was her attitude and behavior at the time? Did she make the stupid mistake of saying something like "Sure, I have a bomb."

I'm so sure that 19 TSA agents and police officers decided to spend an hour on this because they all thought she was "attractive".

 

[sbell111]

He was a pilot, with security clearance! You really think your average Joe Schmoe would be sent on his merry way?

He clearly didn't have 'security clearance', did he? If he did, his next job would still be 'pilot'.

 

[KPeveler]

I am NOT happy about the new "enhanced" pat down measures - Because I use a wheelchair I have no choice but to do it. Because I cannot stand on my own, i have to have others helping me - And they do not always have enough women to hold me up... I now live in Southern California near Disneyland and I am not planning to travel anywhere soon because I don't want to be groped (unfortunately, with my disability, I can try all I want to avoid a patdown to no avail - even if I could stand long enough, I cannot stand enough to use the new full body scanners).

I am all for better security, it just seems like things are getting a little weird...

 

[emh1129]

I'm not thrilled with the fact that we've already spent $900 on 5 RT tickets for our family for this January. I'm wishing now that we had stuck to our original plan to just drive from CT.

 

[bettymae1121]

For all of you folks who have an issue with the nature of the patdowns, don't waste time and energy grousing about it here. TSA is a government agency, and if you don't like a gov't agency's policies, then as Citizens, you have a way through channels to complain: write to your Congressional Representative.

Actually, not just yours; you should also write to members of the Senate oversight committee that has jurisdiction over TSA; the membership list is here: http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=AboutCommittee.Membership

FTR: I don't think that TSA is full of closeted child molesters (if we're talking criminals, thieves are much more likely), but hysteria will get you NOWHERE with these people. Calling or writing members of Congress and the Senate actually has some chance of getting you the policy change that you're asking for.

Very good advice. I personally have no problems with the new pat downs as described (though of course I'll reserve final judgement for when fly next and can see it in action in person) but at the end of the day, sounding off on message board (either for or against the new pat downs) doesn't accomplish anything.

All that said, I just don't understand why a physical exam by a doctor or nurse isn't groping but the new pat downs are (especially since medical exams usually involve a lot less clothing and can even be invasive). Why are the two different?

And I'd like to add that there have been doctors convicted of molesting patients, including pediatricians. My co-workers sister sued her OBGYN when she felt an exam went too far (my co-worker didn't give many details so I'm not sure what happened, other than her sister won the case). If your arguement is that molesters could be hiding amongst the ranks of the TSA, well, there are those hiding in the medical professions as well, and I don't hear any arguements from parents about not taking their kids to the pediatrician or not allowing them to see the school nurse.

 

[NotUrsula]

There's always more to the story. For instance, what was that 'one question'? What was her attitude and behavior at the time? Did she make the stupid mistake of saying something like "Sure, I have a bomb."

I'm so sure that 19 TSA agents and police officers decided to spend an hour on this because they all thought she was "attractive".

I'm betting that her politics may have had something to do with the situation. The program she hosts appears to be VERY libertarian, as in "you'll pry my AK47 from my cold dead hands" libertarian.

I'm taking this one with a grain of salt ... this is the kind of publicity that that kind of radio show couldn't possibly buy, but which is rather easy to manufacture if you don't mind going through a public spectacle to get it. She almost surely made a deliberate decision to provoke them.

 

[C.Ann]

Sadly, this is not far-fetched at all.. Every would-be-terrorist is now aware of the fact that there are only so many places left to "hide" their weapons of intent - and since sacrificing themselves in the process of killing others is a non-issue for them, "cavities" seem to be the only way left for them to go..

It will be interesting to see how people respond when the types of searches below become a requirement - by random selection..

And before anyone says "never" - we've seen a whole bunch of "nevers"' occur in the past 9 years or so - haven't we??