Trying to get smaller than 100 point VGC (GCV) add-on contracts

[logan115]

Yes, the last I heard you could at all except BLT and now GCV.

Thanks Kat,

Chris

 

[jade1]

There will always be resales one day as well.

 

[kerickson]

I think most of the folks who are upset about the increased ceiling are folks who are worried about running out of points by the time they get a chance to buy....

I am waiting to buy until we go to Disneyland the first part of March because I want to get the AP incentive, but I must admit to a little anxiety about waiting... It meant enough to me to have the opportunity to get founding member status that we visited CA to buy our BLT contract, so I don't want to squander my opportunity... But...Aren't there a million points available (or is it more?)? Do you know how many founding members there are?

How long do you think before they will sell out?

Have you told your guide that you plan on purchasing in March? I'd advise you to have them start writing up the paperwork and confirm you are getting the AP incentive. The APs have to be activated by June 30, 2009. My understanding from my guide is that they will only be offering the AP incentive until their batch of APs run out. I received AP vouchers from the same batch when I purchased my original contract in Dec 2007...
Obviously that could change, but that is the current understanding...

 

[drewmisha]

I will speak to my guide about the flexibility of when the AP's need to be activated. I have AP's that don't expire until 8/24/09 and it would be wasteful to activate it several months before the old ones expire. Is the 6/30/09 date set in stone?

Have you told your guide that you plan on purchasing in March? I'd advise you to have them start writing up the paperwork and confirm you are getting the AP incentive. The APs have to be activated by June 30, 2009. My understanding from my guide is that they will only be offering the AP incentive until their batch of APs run out. I received AP vouchers from the same batch when I purchased my original contract in Dec 2007...
Obviously that could change, but that is the current understanding...

 

[kerickson]

I will speak to my guide about the flexibility of when the AP's need to be activated. I have AP's that don't expire until 8/24/09 and it would be wasteful to activate it several months before the old ones expire. Is the 6/30/09 date set in stone?

Not sure, but the context of my question to my guide was as follows:
When we originally purchased we weren't sure when we'd activate the DL APs as our next planned trip was to WDW. At the time (12/07) she told us if we didn't activate them we could trade in for vouchers with a later expiration date. Next time I spoke with her was 12/08 to discuss the VGC Founding Member period. I told her that we had cancelled some trips due to health reasons and I wasn't sure if I'd be well enought to go to DL by June 09. I asked her if they were going to be offering AP vouchers for VGC purchases and whether I could swap mine for a later date if needed. She said they were just using up the existing inventory of vouchers and that she thought they'd be gone before June... (I wasn't aware that the vouchers she was talking about had the same expiration date as mine, wouldn't make sense for me to swap anyway...)
However, it's worth asking your guide. They may not extend as it doesn't seem like these vouchers were brought in specifically for the VGC sales, but were carry overs from the days before the guarantee of VGC.

 

[dcfromva]

Have you told your guide that you plan on purchasing in March?

Yes, but I have been holding off on getting the paperwork started. I've waited this long, I can wait another week. (I have to put it out of my mind or I will be on the phone... )

 

[Dean]

I say implied b/c what the contract stated was that a person who signed would be allowed an opportunity to become a founding member and would be allowed to purchase "up to 160" points. There wasn't a stated minimum - only max. It did not state that you would be allowed to purchase the resort minimum up to 160 points and it did not state you would be allowed to purchase 100-160 points. Now, it also could be construed to mean you could purchase one point but discussions were always that you would be able to purchase 25-160 - the same minimum that had always been required from day one. (From the boards I have heard that there was a 50 pt minimum for non-home resorts for awhile, but the fact it was dropped to 25 supports implication in the FM contract IMO).

I also use the word implied b/c I think it was much more than an assumption because of the long standing history. I supposed you could have an argument that it was anything less than 160 that would be allowed for purchase. Also, keep in mind that most of these options to become founding member contracts were signed long before BLT's minimum increase was even announced.

Are you saying you assumed you'd be able to buy 25 points cash or 50 pts financed because that was what was available at all other resorts at the time?

 

[DVCGeek]

Are you saying you assumed you'd be able to buy 25 points cash or 50 pts financed because that was what was available at all other resorts at the time?

I know that's what I expected to happen when VGC went on sale (and to stay in effect with BLT) because my guide never said the 25/50 was something that might change when I first toured DVC in Oct. 2008... She was clear about dues going up and point charts possibly reallocating, but never said add-on minimum sizes might change! Saying those others were subject to change implied to me that the # of points was NOT.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Are you saying you assumed you'd be able to buy 25 points cash or 50 pts financed because that was what was available at all other resorts at the time?

I am saying that everyone assumed that since the agreement says you may purchase "up to 160 points". No minimum and the maxiumum was equal to the required buy in for new members. My guide was even telling me 25 points up until the sale started. Every guide I spoke to said it. And from a few other comments I've heard I think that DVD even was planning that when they did these agreements. I also call it more than an assumption with approximately 17 years of history behind the point purchase levels and for me the word assumption just doesn't have quite enough strength behind it.

There have been many complaints about this change from people who had received the opportunity to become founding members.

Would your thoughts have been different?

 

[Dean]

I am saying that everyone assumed that since the agreement says you may purchase "up to 160 points". No minimum and the maxiumum was equal to the required buy in for new members. My guide was even telling me 25 points up until the sale started. Every guide I spoke to said it. And from a few other comments I've heard I think that DVD even was planning that when they did these agreements. I also call it more than an assumption with approximately 17 years of history behind the point purchase levels and for me the word assumption just doesn't have quite enough strength behind it.

There have been many complaints about this change from people who had received the opportunity to become founding members.

Would your thoughts have been different?

It was your assumption based on past history, that's fair. Once BLT was announced as 100 pt min, that assumption should have changed immediately.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

It was your assumption based on past history, that's fair. Once BLT was announced as 100 pt min, that assumption should have changed immediately.

Actually I didn't really begin to doubt it until they announced the changing of the maximum purchase allowed - but that wasn't to long after they changed the BLT minimum. And considering they started BLT at less than 100 and gave a notice of the change to allow purchases I continued to hope they would honor how they had been selling this incentive.

Lesson learned.

 

[Dean]

Actually I didn't really begin to doubt it until they announced the changing of the maximum purchase allowed - but that wasn't to long after they changed the BLT minimum. And considering they started BLT at less than 100 and gave a notice of the change to allow purchases I continued to hope they would honor how they had been selling this incentive.

Lesson learned.

It was a reasonable assumption when there was no indication otherwise. Once BLT was announced at 100 min, that should have at least raised the question. However, I don't think they ever stated anything that GCV would be available at under 100 points, only that the maximum was in place, which was later changed. Thus I don't think think they had any commitment or implied obligation to sell for the lower numbers.

 

[DVCGeek]

So what do people here think [OPINION / speculation] - will BLT & VGC ever go (back) to a 25 / 50 point minimum add-on for the general membership? (NOT counting the temporary BLT 25s being reported elsewhere as they are apparently only for a small group of members.)

Has your opinion changed, and if so, why?

I'm starting to have my doubts. I had been hoping it might happen March 25th, just with NO incentives for less than 100. I was guessing that the 100 minimum may have been mainly for the founder period. If there is enough demand at that level, disney makes more on larger contracts than multiple smaller ones due to overhead per contract, so there is rationele weather I like it or not.

Now I'm thinking that (me) buying two 50s at the same $5 off and cruise or DPs for 100 plus as is going on now for Founders is probably the most likely 'minimum' scenerio... I must admit there is a growing part of me that would really like to take a 3 night cruise for DW's BD Feb. 4th!

 

[kerickson]

So what do people here think [OPINION / speculation] - will BLT & VGC ever go (back) to a 25 / 50 point minimum add-on for the general membership? (NOT counting the temporary BLT 25s being reported elsewhere as they are apparently only for a small group of members.)

Has your opinion changed, and if so, why?

I'm starting to have my doubts. I had been hoping it might happen March 25th, just with NO incentives for less than 100. I was guessing that the 100 minimum may have been mainly for the founder period. If there is enough demand at that level, disney makes more on larger contracts than multiple smaller ones due to overhead per contract, so there is rationele weather I like it or not.

Now I'm thinking that (me) buying two 50s at the same $5 off and cruise or DPs for 100 plus as is going on now for Founders is probably the most likely 'minimum' scenerio... I must admit there is a growing part of me that would really like to take a 3 night cruise for DW's BD Feb. 4th!

I don't think the minimum will drop for VGC or BLT. I think they raised it due to the high point requirements to stay there. If they allow members to purchase 25pt contracts, those members could be severely limited in their reservation options if they ever adjust the point charts again (per the VGC contract they could change all studios to 21pts per night, in that case 25-50 points won't get you much)...they could also implement a minimum stay requirement. 25-50 won't get you a week. 100 will if you bank/borrow...

 

[BWV Dreamin]

THEY HAVE CHANGED THE RULES!! Please defer to this thread..http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?p=30377564#post30377564

 

[DVCGeek]

THEY HAVE CHANGED THE RULES!! Please defer to this thread..http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?p=30377564#post30377564

*VERY* interesting! What does that bode for VGC? <cue music>

 

[kerickson]

Well, if they have changed it for BLT, it's probably only a matter of time (the time for the info to go from Florida to California) before they drop the min for VGC. It's better they do it now during the FM period than after or they'd have real unhappy 'could have been' FMs.
This will be great news for those who were priced out at 100pts. Secretly I'm happy we bought with the 100min. I was originally only going to buy 63pts but the 100 min got me to redo my budget and we bought 100. May not have tried as hard to justify 100 if we could have bought 63. And we broke ours into 2 50pt contracts, so I can always sell one if 50 is all I need. And we got the $5 discount and the 3 night DCL...so no regrets here!

BTW, I've stopped trying to use logic to explain any of DVC's policy decisions

 

[DVCGeek]

BTW, I've stopped trying to use logic to explain any of DVC's policy decisions

THAT is probably the most logical thing you could possibly do!

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

It was a reasonable assumption when there was no indication otherwise. Once BLT was announced at 100 min, that should have at least raised the question. However, I don't think they ever stated anything that GCV would be available at under 100 points, only that the maximum was in place, which was later changed. Thus I don't think think they had any commitment or implied obligation to sell for the lower numbers.

Sadly, I understand that guide information apparently doesn't count - but that is what they all stated (I worked with 3 different ones when I was doing my add on that qualified me for the founding member program) and I also absolutely believe that Disney intended that as well until much more recently when they decided they would like to sell larger contracts.

Now.....with the reported drop in minimum at BLT back to 25 I guess I may assume that GCV will follow suit!?! Meetings at DVD must be pretty interesting these days.

 

[tjkraz]

Now.....with the reported drop in minimum at BLT back to 25 I guess I may assume that GCV will follow suit!?! Meetings at DVD must be pretty interesting these days.

I'd say that remains to be seen.

As far as I know, DVC's big motivation for eliminating small add-ons was to keep them from hitting the resale market. It costs Disney much more to sell four 25-pt add-ons than it does one 100-pt add-on. And they are wary of people buying and flipping some of those contracts via resale in a short time--particularly if it leads to people buying a single 50-pt DVC contract rather than 160+ points direct.

For BLT the reversal was a little less painful since the horse was already out of the barn, so to speak. They sold 25+ contracts for 3 1/2 months. And they had a bit of a PR issue with the reallocation.

I don't see the same issues arising with VGC since it was always 100+ and there is no reallocation. I know some were under the impression that add-ons would be available at 25+ but that was never an official policy with regard to VGC.

In fact, if there's any backlash to be had over a change it would come from those who were initially compelled to buy 100+. I think some would be very upset if they later found out DVC allowed people to buy as little as 25 when they were required to purchase 4x as many.

It could still happen--sales may ultimately make that determination. But I would hold off making any assumptions that the BLT change foreshadows anything at VGC.