Travel City Direct

[huw]

I'm not knocking DIY holidays, only urging people to be careful and look at the whole picture. I have heard countless tales of people booking specific villas privately on the internet for example, and when they arrive the villa has been sold (worst case scenario - money lost), or the owner has had a better offer and is refunding their money (unpleasant but at least they get their money back), or even something like a burst pipe preventing their occupancy (hopefully they'll get their money back). In the last 2 scenarios people are left to find their own accommodation whilst in resort. These are a very small percentage of the total bookings, it's true - but that's no satisfaction to those who have been caught. Just go into it with eyes open, that's all.

Southern Dunes is the furthest estate away from Disney to the west. Disney can be reached via the I-4 in 17 minutes (I've done it) and it is a very nice, laid back estate. If you do not want to go there, ask your tour operator either for a specific named location or a limited allocated on arrival deal whereby 3, 4 or 5 estates are named and you will be placed in one of those. Make sure Southern Dunes is not one of the selection!!

Problems are occasionally encountered by ALL tour operators if an emergency occurs at short notice at PEAK HOLIDAY TIMES when availability is tight - i.e. villa sold, villa inspected prior to arrival and found to be substandard. owner has decided to take up occupancy himself (Florida State Law protects the owner in this situation) etc. In this situation the important thing is to get clients housed. If this is not in the location expected, the villa management company should, on the direction of a tour operator, make every effort to source a property in the chosen location - but clients should be aware that this may not happen overnight due to availability constraints. Be aware that emergencies constitute a 'force majeure' situation, so fault cannot be attributed!!! Tour operators are bound by ABTAs code of conduct so they WILL make every effort to resolve the situation.
5 years ago, villa bookings were made on an allocated on arrival basis, which gave a lot of flexibility to tour operators in the event of emergencies, but led to a lot of complaints because the quality of some of the villas was questionable. The abundance of named location villas introduced by --- (no free advertising here!) was very successful and other operators have followed. Quality issues largely disappeared but short notice emergencies have much more effect on the tour operator. There is NO perfect solution - DIY bookings in my eyes have the greatest potential saving but the greatest potential disaster scenario - but I believe standards have risen and tour operator prices on villas have definitely dropped compared to 3 or 4 years ago - which has to be a good thing.
And Allie.......think of all the jet lag, you wouldn't want that would you?

 

[rob@rar.org.uk]

Thanks for that Huw. I appreciate your warnings, and certainly agree that we need to see the broad picture when deciding whether to go book a package or independent holiday. When we've booked villas we have chosen UK-owned, but with a local management agent who could assist if anything goes wrong (it never has). UK-owned means you are likely to be booking on the personal recommendation of some else, often through this board.

I always compare the prices of package and DIY, and so far package has not even come close to matching the price for the holiday we want (peak season, scheduled flight to MCO, annual passes, low-cost car insurance, on-site hotels or very close villa, etc). For our holiday last year (two of us, staying one week at All Stars & one week at Animal Kingdom Lodge, travelling during August, mid-range car hire) the nearest package price was £800 more than we paid by booking DIY. I've seen off-season package prices that I would not be able to beat booking independently, but peak season I feel that most tour operators take advantage of the fact that I have to travel during school holidays.

Regards

Rob

 

[JANNYANS]

Huw
As an owner with 5 years experience I must say I disaggree with you on a few ponts.I have not known of a situation where there has been an incis=dent like a burst pipe where the guests have needed to find their own accommodation.All the owners I know -and that amounts to hundreds-all have mc's or caretakers who will move heaven and earth to replace them.I have had this myself in the last two weeks when my air con sprung a leak.My mc immediately offered to move my guests to another home but they refused they were happy in mine.Coud the people you talk of refused then changed their mind too late?
Homes are not bought and sold on a whim so the situation where you could book a home and then turn up to find it has been sold I find hard to believe.It is more likely down to poor communication between owners mc and travel company .Even if a home is slod it is generally with the bookings intact so the guest still has a home .No ownere worth his salt would suddenly decide to take their home for a hoilday when they already have bookings.If this happens then it could well be down to bad communication between them and the mc again.I had this happen when I was with the largest mc in the area who deals a lot with travel companies -and you probably know who I am talking about here,.They book my home -they cancel it -no recompense to me - I book flights to go at that time -inform them -they have a booking without informing me.
As for villa prices dropping being a good thing -that depends on which side you're looking at it from.Some of the rates being charged for private homes are ridiculous .I have seen 5 bed homes going for £700 per person with some travel agents.They sleep up to 12 people.On the other hand there are companies almost giving homes away as part of an all inclusive package and the only loser will bw the home owner.

 

[huw]

Jannyans/Rob

The situations I described are not 'once in a blue moon'. As an owner Jannyans, you may be one of the large majority that a) deal honourably and b) haven't experienced any problems with your management company.
As you will be aware, mc's spring up all the time and are touting for business. They only need a phone and an office. After 9/11 certainly, rental incomes plummeted, and a lot of nervous owners listened to the wrong people - especially if they were dependent on rental income to cover their mortgage. Now it's easy for mc's to make claims that they can give an owner 45 weeks rental per annum, quite another to deliver. There are hundreds of dissatisfied owners bouncing from mc to mc because they're unhappy with the level of rentals/income being generated. Sometimes owners decide that the meagre level of rental income doesn't cover the utilities, wear and tear, pool cleaning, maintenance etc and just pull their home off the rental market. I don't blame them, but this will cause a domino effect. Sometimes the mc will vanish with the rental income. Sometimes the villa will be foreclosed, sometimes electricity is cut off because bills aren't being paid. Whatever the reason, I stand by my earlier statement - I'm not saying it's endemic, but it is happening. Most tour operators peaked in 2000 for villa business and in an effort to resuscitate the villa business (because of loads of availability), rates have dropped and owners are receiving less. This leads to less money available for upkeep, which in turn can lead to quality issues, which in turn can lead to properties not being considered for rental, which in turn causes a problem with availability in certain locations. I applaud owners who are able to market their own villa and get a satisfactory level of income from direct bookers. Not all villa owners will be able to do this, especially if they are reliant on bookings through shoulder seasons as well as peak, because most owners advertising privately will find no trouble at all in finding peak bookings, it's the Jan/Feb/May/June/Sep/Nov periods that cause alarm - which is where mc's come in!!!
On the issue of unscrupulous owners, the business needs more owners like you Jannyans!! I have personal experience of owners gazumping imminent arrivals during peak periods because they are offered a higher rate. They won't do it during shoulder seasons because they need the business, but anything goes during peak because they can fill the homes 4 or 5 times over.
It's good to air these issues despite different perspectives, as knowledge is POWER!!!!

 

[JANNYANS]

Huw
I have had problems with the largest company in the area as I said you probably know who they are -they have large offices on the 192 so now I do all my own booking and althjough I don't make a profit out of oit i certainly have enough to keep my home up to standard and improving it.Why are people bouncing from mc to mc?
Possibly because the travel industry have lowered the prices passed onto owners so much.I had a 5 night booking- done through my old mc -for a travel company and I ended up with $250 .It was for a group of 10 people .I had to pay 10% taxes and my utilities plus the management fee.This is when I decided to change the way I did things.At least doing my own bookings I get a fair price for my home .
I thank you for your comment about being fair Huw.I like to think I treat my guests in the same way I want to be treated and as yet have had no complaintsInfact I reproduce here part of an e-mail I got the other day from a guest going into my home next month
QUOTE]Thanks for taking the time to send the follow up e-mail and I have to take this opportunity to complement you on both your website and information packs. The national tour operators could learn a lot from the level of service and information that you provide, it has been quite commendable.[/QUOTE]

 

[UKDEB]

I booked packages to Florida in the early days (first 3 trips), but have since gone down the DIY route. I'm sure most people are intelligent enough to identify the pros and cons of each - it's then down to applying those considerations to your individual circumstances. In my case, my requirements have become <b><i>way</i></b> too specific to even consider a package holiday and the small risk of becoming the victim of an unscrupulous owner is one I'm willing to take. I'm absolutely terrified of flying, but I still get on the plane each time! You weigh up the risks and you make a choice.

And, of course, there is the undeniable matter of cost. I have stayed in some fabulous accommodations (both villas and hotels), which I would simply not have considered at package prices. I remember pricing up a 2 week stay for our family of four at the Grand Floridian (just as an exercise) a year or so back. The brochure price was something in the region of £12000, the DIY with AP discounts for lodging, Flying Club discounts for Virgin flights, etc., was about £4000. Nuff said.

 

[huw]

You're both quite right in what you say.

I quite like playing devil's advocate, so what would things be like if everyone booked direct and ignored tour operators......
Theoretically consumers would gain as they managed to get lower prices (calm down Jannyans, just a thought!), but would they? Once all bookings came from the same source, you'd probably find that prices went up again - the market creates its own cartel.
I think a mix is probably right. The lower prices sometimes available on a direct basis probably serve to warn tour operators to stay competitive. Any problems or worries people have with direct bookings probably steer them to tour operators in the future. Both ways feed each other and need each other.
What is beyond dispute is that many people a) don't have the time in this day and age to spend time sourcing their own, and b) want the security of booking with a tour operator. Since the demise of some unbonded villa companies in particular, tour operators have seen an increase in business lately, as clients worry about the safety of their money. What is also beyond dispute is that a strong market benefits the 3 main players - owners, clients and tour operators. When the market suffers, prices drop, standards drop and owners suffer, AND the situation actually encourages the type of person into the industry that no-one wants to see.
I deal with hotels, mc's, receptives, realtors as well as looking at customer complaints, and have the 'luxury' of being able to see things from all perspectives (some methods of operation take your breath away).
Most villa owners are not in the game to make money, but want to cover their costs and have the added bonus of a holiday home waiting for them - and hopefully a home that appreciates in value. Rogue management companies put this at risk - and there are quite a few of them.
Good luck Jannyans, you seem to have found a system to suit you, and I've got no doubt all your clients are as complimentary as the one you quoted. I'd LOVE to know how well you do with shoulder season bookings though - if you are sourcing them yourself! Most owners have so much trouble, they place with a mc, receiving a lower rate in peak in exchange for shoulder season bookings.

 

[JANNYANS]

I am hopeful of filling the vacant days to come and as for the ones that have gone it was because I would not lower my rates to satisfy lastminute bookers who wanted me to subsidise their holiday.

 

[Enright78]

Very interesting thread. We have only taken a package once, ever since we have dealt in DIY. I must admit to never having had any problems dealing with owners direct. I wonder what the findings would be if we did a poll of DISers? To be honest, I've never heard of any of the problems Huw identifies applying to someone, but of course I don't know everyone!!!
I book all hols DIY, not just Florida (recently did San Francisco and France twice and in French with the owners!!) and in 20 years we've never been disappointed.
Why do I do it? I actually enjoy the organisation, I like a bargain and I have very specific needs. I also won't pay under occupancy charges that some bigger operators impose. However my biggest reason is like Rob I have to travel in school holidays and if I didn't do it myself I'd never afford anything. JMHO

 

[huw]

Jannyans, you've done well!! Either very good or very lucky, I hope it continues!

 

[huw]

Hi Fiona,
small point - under occupancy supplements shouldn't apply for Florida, if operators are doing this it's an extra margin straight into their pockets!

 

[Enright78]

Some of the "bigger" ones do...always been a bone of contention with us as a smaller family..originally me DH and DD and now usually just me and DH!!

 

[huw]

Fiona,
just don't use these companies, unlike Europe you pay for the unit in Florida - regardless of occupancy level.

 

[UKDEB]

Which is what makes it really galling. The hotels charge per room, but if you buy a package holiday to Florida in the UK, you pay per person. A family of 2 adults, 2 children will pay under-occupancy charges for the 2 children sharing the room. As you say, extra margin straight into their pockets, but they all do it.

 

[huw]

Debbie, which ones are you referring to? I know for a fact that some don't charge under occupancy. The room rate or villa rate is the same for 1 person or the maximum occupancy, so shouldn't be charged. The holiday price is calculated per person because a charge is applied individually to each flight seat, so it's easier to divide the accommodation costs between the amount of travellers and add to the flight cost to get the per person price. Some operators will give you the flight prices then the separate accommodation cost so it is clear that no under occupancy charges are made.
I used to get ticked off when this happened in Europe, so I started going to Florida!

 

[Enright78]

Sorry Huw, still getting better deals DIY and with the individual villa owners. Don't think I'll be using an agent again! Each to his own.

 

[huw]

I agree.
It's like water finding its own level. After a while you find a system that works for you......