Transportation Dues/update 3/2004

[PKS44]

For those who do not recall all the issues about how transportation is paid for around the Epcot resorts:

the last thread

the first thread about this

I got a call today from my contact at DVC with the latest...and I am very impressed with how thoroughly they are following up on this...we have good people working for us down there....

First--we are not subsidizing Swan and Dolphin hotels transport they pay more than we do to reflect their larger size...

Second-they are re-evaluating the split of the remaining costs between YC/BC/BCV and BWI/BWV and the next budget will likely reflect things differently and more along the lines of what I and others have proposed here (TroyWDW in particular provided a lot of the modeling and math)--in other words they were not doing it fairly before.... In brief -the budget will more accurately be parsed according to the different sizes of the resorts just as they currently parse the resorts budget between DVC and the non DVC resort...it won't make a big difference but it will be more consistent and on principle is more "fair." Bigger resort will pay a bigger amount for the transport.

Third- as Doc reported earlier this year there has been a change in the transportation so that BW gets picked up first when they are busy and does not share the route with the YC/BC. I have yet to hear how this is working out better but it is a start...they are listening!

Paul

 

[BWVDee]

Thanks for the update. I am glad to see that the transportation budgets will be corrected. Great job of taking the innovative to get something done. As a DVC member, I thank you.

 

[jaysue]

So the BWV members will thank you and the BCV members will not be so happy

I just hope that DVC does not pull a fast one on us as a collective - if they charge $100K for example from BCV they better cut BWV by $100K

Somehow I think they will try and pull a fast one and we will all be out more $$$

thanks
jaysue

 

[crisi]

Given the price of gas, the cost of providing transportation will go up. Don't try comparing next year to this year and claiming foul unless you are willing to figure increased cost of gas/maintenance/labor and insurance.

 

[PamOKW]

Originally posted by PKS44
I got a call today from my contact at DVC with the latest...and I am very impressed with how thoroughly they are following up on this...we have good people working for us down there....
Paul

I'm glad to hear they are resolving the issue. I'm even more glad to hear that you feel they are being responsive.

 

[BWVDee]

I really doubt Disney would try to pull a "fast one". Disney is always under a great deal of secrutiny and one thing you can say about Disney, is they do follow the regulations and laws to a T. Doing something like what you are suggesting would be juggling the books and something I highly doubt Disney would be foolish enough to do.

 

[BWVDee]

Pam,
Just curious and I might be reading your post all wrong, but you don't think Disney is being responsive?

 

[InstImpres]

Originally posted by PKS44
Third- as Doc reported earlier this year there has been a change in the transportation so that BW gets picked up first when they are busy and does not share the route with the YC/BC. I have yet to hear how this is working out better but it is a start...they are listening!

I did experience this in February. Here is my problem with it....."busy times" are being defined as times of the day, not day of the year.

My scenario
BWV - MK-BWV

pick-up we are first BWV-Swan-Dolphin-MK
return Swan-Dolphin-Yacht-Beach-BWV

On the way there we are first of 3 stops (nice we always had a seat) on the way back we are the last of 5. Bottom line, IMHO, Boardwalk owners spent more time on the bus than anyone. Not acceptable. It should follow a school bus principle - first on, first off. You should only have the "long" ride in one direction

Sandy

 

[lenshanem]

So the BWV members will thank you and the BCV members will not be so happy

I just hope that DVC does not pull a fast one on us as a collective - if they charge $100K for example from BCV they better cut BWV by $100K

Somehow I think they will try and pull a fast one and we will all be out more $$$

AGREED

Given the price of gas, the cost of providing transportation will go up. Don't try comparing next year to this year and claiming foul unless you are willing to figure increased cost of gas/maintenance/labor and insurance.

AGREED

 

[BWVDee]

On the way there we are first of 3 stops (nice we always had a seat) on the way back we are the last of 5. Bottom line, IMHO, Boardwalk owners spent more time on the bus than anyone. Not acceptable. It should follow a school bus principle - first on, first off. You should only have the "long" ride in one direction

I agree, and that is the way the bus used to be with BWV the last pick up in route to parks. But many members complained that there was a lack of seats. So it was changed to address this issue. It is a case of: You can't please all the people, all the time! The ideal situation would be for each resort to have it's own buses, but realistically this is not really needed for the vast majority of time. I think the bus routes should be split permanently with either the Swan & Dolphin broken away into their own bus routes and leave the Disney resorts as a shared route; OR combine S/D with BW and leave YC/BC/BCV as a different route.
The shared boat routes by the Epcot resorts is not a problem because it is only 3 resort stops but the bus route is way too many stops.
The good thing is Disney did listen and has investigated and discovered errors in the divison of the transportation costs and they are correcting it! They also listened to members complaints about the bus routes and are attempting to make changes. The fact that more changes need to be made on the bus routes, does not diminish the fact that Disney is attempting to address guest's concerns. Since the door has been opened and Disney is very aware of DVC member's dissatisfaction with the bus transportation, I think DVC members should continue to provide their feedback and concerns. I know, I am. I think alot more will be accomplished by going this route then by just speaking concerns on an internet discussion board. After all, it was Paul taking the innovative to directly question Disney about the division of the transportation costs that started this whole ball rolling.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by jaysue
So the BWV members will thank you and the BCV members will not be so happy

No one should be unhappy as long as things are made more fair. I can't see any reasonable person being upset in this situation if the actual costs are evened out between everyone. Still, it's likely that just the BCV dues will go up and that BWV dues will not go down.

 

[PamOKW]

I don't understand why you are questioning me, Dee. I'll try to be more clear.

I am very glad to hear that DVC is working with PKS44 to address the concern he raised. I am delighted to hear how thorough they are being and that they continue to follow-up with him. I would expect that from DVC and I'm glad to hear that has been the case. I am also glad that PKS44 has taken the time to share the information he has received and to relate how well the whole exchange with DVC has proceeded.

My experience has always been that DVC responds to member concerns with at least a discussion of the issue. I haven't had any direct contact on an issue for a long time. I'm glad that the new management continues to respond to members.

Sorry, if my earlier post indicated something less. Or, is that you disagree with how DVC is handling this situation, Dee? (I don't think that's the case.)

 

[Granny]

Originally posted by jaysue
So the BWV members will thank you and the BCV members will not be so happy

I don't have all the math in front of me, but I don't recall this being a BCV/BWV only discussion. We also have BWI, BC and YC that are part of the allocation. As small as BCV is (# rooms), it doesn't seem that any cost shift would be likely to be heading their way.

As far as the "Disney can't wait to stick it to us"....well, I guess if I really thought that about Disney I wouldn't have bought into DVC in the first place. At this point, I can only naively hope that this sentiment is not correct.

 

[lenshanem]

Still, it's likely that just the BCV dues will go up and that BWV dues will not go down.

Exactly my point all along Dean.

 

[lenshanem]

As far as the "Disney can't wait to stick it to us"....well, I guess if I really thought that about Disney I wouldn't have bought into DVC in the first place. At this point, I can only naively hope that this sentiment is not correct.

Oh Granny, how much my views about Disney have changed in this past year since I originally bought into DVC...

I hope all my worries are laid to rest soon regarding Disney. I love WDW and don't like having to think such things...

I guess we'll have to wait and see!

Defending jaysue though, he didn't say "Disney can't wait to stick it to us", but I think he was more implying nothing would surprise him at this point. Correct, jaysue?

 

[BWVDee]

Originally posted by PamOKW
I don't understand why you are questioning me, Dee. I'll try to be more clear.

I am very glad to hear that DVC is working with PKS44 to address the concern he raised. I am delighted to hear how thorough they are being and that they continue to follow-up with him. I would expect that from DVC and I'm glad to hear that has been the case. I am also glad that PKS44 has taken the time to share the information he has received and to relate how well the whole exchange with DVC has proceeded.

My experience has always been that DVC responds to member concerns with at least a discussion of the issue. I haven't had any direct contact on an issue for a long time. I'm glad that the new management continues to respond to members.

Sorry, if my earlier post indicated something less. Or, is that you disagree with how DVC is handling this situation, Dee? (I don't think that's the case.)

Like I said, I was reading your post wrong. I thought you were implying that you did not think Disney was responsive but was glad that Paul felt they were. I was confused as to why you would not think Disney was responsive.
Sorry for any confusion. I really did not mean anything negative in my question.
BTW, yes you are right, I do think Disney has been very responsive to Paul's questions and concerns. As a DVC member I am very happy with their response. Even if this does not result in BWV dues going down, that is not the point. The point is the transportation costs should be divided correctly among all the resorts. And now they will be.

 

[PKS44]

one thing that probably will make the BCV dues go up a little at least on the line for Transportation is that they had never assigned them any dues to cover the boat transport (The added cost of the boats, by the way, should come to less than a 0.03 a point)......it also seems likely that the BWV Transportation dues could decrease slightly as the costs for the buses will be split more toward the YC/BC/BCV--not a huge amount. but with that resort being 1.6times the size of the BWI/BWV complex the costs for transport will now be assigned more in line with the size of the resorts--the same way they assign the costs to split between BWI and BWV. The BWV will probably pay about 22% of the total instead of 29% of the total costs. BCV will pay 12% instead of 10%. These are percent changes--we don't know what the total will be.

Paul

 

[PamOKW]

Paul, since you are following this so closely (along with several others), it would be interesting if you could share a comparison of the Transportation cost year-to-year differences for BWV and BCV when the new budget comes out in December.

"If" BCV dues go up and/or BWV dues don't change or go up, remember this Transportation issue is just a small part of what effects dues. Don't put it on to the Transportation changes until you look at the budget line-by-line. Paul was right to bring it to DVC's attention and for them to research the issue and be sure the costs are being allocated correctly. However, as Paul mentions, it probably won't be a dramatic change in either direction.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by lenshanem
Exactly my point all along Dean.

And my point is that the end result is irrlevant in the sense that the question should have been asked. Anyone upset that it was questioned is out of line, EVEN if it ends up with BCV having higher dues and BWV not being reduced.

 

[jaysue]

I have not posted that it was wrong to ask for this realignment of costs

What I posted was: (and thanks for asking me to clarify Shan)

"I just hope that DVC does not pull a fast one on us as a collective - if they charge $100K for example from BCV they better cut BWV by $100K

Somehow I think they will try and pull a fast one and we will all be out more $$$"

If some people take offense to the above, none was meant and none should be taken. There are many ways for accountants and bean counters to shuffle costs - my bet for now is BCV dues up a bit, BWV dues flat (at least in transportation)

Regards
jaysue