Transgender Gym Mess

[FlightlessDuck]

I felt the same way. I first saw it used in a rant on Facebook, so that didn't help. Cis is the antonym prefix to trans, I get that. But I sort of felt like, hey, I didn't choose the label trans for you, why do you get to choose cis for me?

That's kind of how I felt, but it appears it was actually first used by Dr. Eli R. Green in a 2006 article in Journal of Lesbian Studies. Although I suppose he could be trans...

And that was just appropriating the prefix which was already used in "cissexual" as far back as 1991 by Volkmar Sigusch

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

For those of you who are bit confused by the whole transgender idea, it may help to remember that sex and gender are, in fact, two different things.

Sex is the biological aspect-reproductive organs and chromosomes

Gender is a social construct- it is often learned and varies by culture. Gender norms are usually assumed based on one's sex. Gender is what we think of as feminine or masculine. Gender is Wired in the brain.

One's gender and sex needn't match, though that is what happens in a large percentage of people.

For transgender people their gender does not align with their sex.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

I felt the same way. I first saw it used in a rant on Facebook, so that didn't help. Cis is the antonym prefix to trans, I get that. But I sort of felt like, hey, I didn't choose the label trans for you, why do you get to choose cis for me? I do think it needs to be explained better, since most of the times I see it used it's by a transgender person with some (justified or not) axe to grind. I feel like if it were a more commonly used term, like if it were used in news articles and explained then it wouldn't irk me as much. But when you used it I knew what you were saying and it fir perfectly in your context.

The prefix trans has been in use in the word transvestite since 1910 when it was coined by Magnus Hirschfeld. Hirschfeld himself was not trans.

 

[SirDuff]

I felt the same way. I first saw it used in a rant on Facebook, so that didn't help. Cis is the antonym prefix to trans, I get that. But I sort of felt like, hey, I didn't choose the label trans for you, why do you get to choose cis for me? I do think it needs to be explained better, since most of the times I see it used it's by a transgender person with some (justified or not) axe to grind. I feel like if it were a more commonly used term, like if it were used in news articles and explained then it wouldn't irk me as much. But when you used it I knew what you were saying and it fir perfectly in your context.

I've seen it popping up more and more (and generally not in rants). But I felt like you as well at first (now getting used to it). Similar to how I felt when I first read/heard "neuro-typical" (though "neuro-typical is more mainstream than cisgender, at this point).

 

[Chocolate Cake]

Funny you should mentioned that: When Women Become Men at Wellesley. and Wellesley Will Admit Transgender Students for the First Time.

Thanks for posting these. Very interesting and well written.

Timothy knew he was a boy when he applied, but pretended to be a girl to gain access to Wellesley? Pretty neat how that works. You can just morph into whatever sex you want to gain access to certain places. Then you can change your sex immediately and ask people to call you "him" pronouns at an all girls school.

It seems very sneaky to continually switch sexes to fit your agenda.

Luckily, I don't think most transgender people think this way.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

Thanks for posting these. Very interesting and well written.

Timothy knew he was a boy when he applied, but pretended to be a girl to gain access to Wellesley? Pretty neat how that works. You can just morph into whatever sex you want to gain access to certain places. Then you can change your sex immediately and ask people to call you "him" pronouns at an all girls school.

It seems very sneaky to continually switch sexes to fit your agenda.

Luckily, I don't think most transgender people think this way.

I didn't read it that way. I read it as though when he applied Timothy was still living as female with another name. He was aware that he was transgender, but had not made a transition to living as a boy or man. The fact that he worried that his mom would see his application if he wrote transgender, is what makes me think this. Some time between applying to Wellesley, and starting at Wellesley, he made that transition. He changed once, not continually.

Honestly, I think that a kid who manages to deal with something this major in high school, in an unsupportive family, and get the grades and other credentials needed to get into Wellesley, one of the most elite schools in this country, is pretty impressive.

 

[bcla]

I've heard that in Thailand there's been a high level of acceptance of transgendered people, to the point where schools and private businesses have set aside transgender-specific bathrooms and locker rooms. Pretty soon their constitution may specifically protect their rights.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/16/world/third-gender-thailand/

 

[sunshinehighway]

Thanks for posting these. Very interesting and well written.

Timothy knew he was a boy when he applied, but pretended to be a girl to gain access to Wellesley? Pretty neat how that works. You can just morph into whatever sex you want to gain access to certain places. Then you can change your sex immediately and ask people to call you "him" pronouns at an all girls school.

It seems very sneaky to continually switch sexes to fit your agenda.

Luckily, I don't think most transgender people think this way.

I agree with you. That's kind of what I was referring to in my early post when I said it was trendy to be gender confused among some groups.
I went to what would be described as a very liberal university ( not Wellesley). Back in my day being bi sexual was trendy there.
I recently met a woman who is graduating this spring. She has 3 gender neutral friends. This isn't a big school...typical New England liberal arts University... Of course none of them are actually taking steps to become the other gender (telling family, or doctors).
Playing with gender is the new bisexual.

 

[bcla]

I agree with you. That's kind of what I was referring to in my early posy when I said it was trendy to be gender confused among some groups.
I went to what would be described as a very liberal university ( not Wellesley). Back in my day being bi sexual was trendy there.

Wasn't a variation on that a line from Jerry Maguire?

I do remember a HS classmate. I wasn't sure if this classmate was male or female until graduation (boys/girls wore gowns specific gowns in each of the school colors) and when she told everyone she was going to Bryn Mawr.

 

[Chocolate Cake]

I didn't read it that way. I read it as though when he applied Timothy was still living as female with another name. He was aware that he was transgender, but had not made a transition to living as a boy or man.

No. He identified as a male to his friends before he applied. Just not his mom. He knew he was a male. And then he showed up first day at an all girls' college, and told them he was a boy and to refer to him as such. What? You are at a school for girls, yet you are a boy.

Then another male in the article complained that a mass email to students said: "Good Morning Ladies". If you choose to go to an all girls' school and you are a male, why are you complaining that mass emails contain the word "ladies"? Such entitlement in my opinion.

And then to start making requests that the school replace the phrase "a day of sisterhood" with the phrase "a day of "siblinghood"? WHY would you start protesting this school's traditions because you pretended to be a girl and then switched to being a boy once you arrived?

 

[sunshinehighway]

No. He identified as a male to his friends before he applied. Just not his mom. He knew he was a male. And then he showed up first day at an all girls' college, and told them he was a boy and to refer to him as such. What? You are at a school for girls, yet you are a boy.

Then another male in the article complained that a mass email to students said: "Good Morning Ladies". If you choose to go to an all girls' school and you are a male, why are you complaining that mass emails contain the word "ladies"? Such entitlement in my opinion.

And then to start making requests that the school replace the phrase "a day of sisterhood" with the phrase "a day of "siblinghood"? WHY would you start protesting this school's traditions because you pretended to be a girl and then switched to being a boy once you arrived?

Because it's cool and trendy to play with gender identity and try to fight the establishment that way.

 

[bunkkinsmom]

I don't even know where to start.... As a child of two homosexual parents, I've read a lot of these cases and have tried to understand the best that I can. Having said that, I just have to throw in my two cents. Most surveys in the past 3 years put the LGBT percentage of Americans at between 3-5%. At some point we are putting the rights of a few above the rights of the many. I don't want to take away or deny anyone of their right to feel comfortable in a situation, but that includes my 12 year old daughter who works out with me. And if this person walked into the locker room when my 12 year old was changing, I would have a problem with it. There are a few ways to solve this issue. First: eliminate the traditional locker rooms and have individual changing/showering areas. Take note that to accomplish that is going to cost quite a lot of $$ for the establishment, which likely will be passed on to the members as higher fees. Second: Just have an open locker room for everyone. Then I can choose not to work out there. At that point, the almighty dollar will tell us pretty quickly what the majority truly thinks. Third: Eliminate locker rooms completely. No changing rooms no showers. I don't see that happening. I will say that if I were to join a gym that had this policy, I would leave once I was informed of it (or not join at all after reading the fine print). If the majority of people feel that open locker rooms are the way to go, then I will have to accept that and choose to either work out at home or schedule a way to change/shower at home. Some of you may feel totally ok with changing/showering/sharing locker room space. But there are quite a few (maybe even most) of us who are totally NOT ok with that. Maybe some will say that's not a very "enlightened" way to think, well so be it. I can't wait till my dad and Bruce get back from their Hawaii cruise so that we can all sit down and have this discussion. I'm truly interested in their perspective.

 

[Gracie09]

I don't even know where to start.... As a child of two homosexual parents, I've read a lot of these cases and have tried to understand the best that I can. Having said that, I just have to throw in my two cents. Most surveys in the past 3 years put the LGBT percentage of Americans at between 3-5%. At some point we are putting the rights of a few above the rights of the many. I don't want to take away or deny anyone of their right to feel comfortable in a situation, but that includes my 12 year old daughter who works out with me. And if this person walked into the locker room when my 12 year old was changing, I would have a problem with it. There are a few ways to solve this issue. First: eliminate the traditional locker rooms and have individual changing/showering areas. Take note that to accomplish that is going to cost quite a lot of $$ for the establishment, which likely will be passed on to the members as higher fees. Second: Just have an open locker room for everyone. Then I can choose not to work out there. At that point, the almighty dollar will tell us pretty quickly what the majority truly thinks. Third: Eliminate locker rooms completely. No changing rooms no showers. I don't see that happening. I will say that if I were to join a gym that had this policy, I would leave once I was informed of it (or not join at all after reading the fine print). If the majority of people feel that open locker rooms are the way to go, then I will have to accept that and choose to either work out at home or schedule a way to change/shower at home. Some of you may feel totally ok with changing/showering/sharing locker room space. But there are quite a few (maybe even most) of us who are totally NOT ok with that. Maybe some will say that's not a very "enlightened" way to think, well so be it. I can't wait till my dad and Bruce get back from their Hawaii cruise so that we can all sit down and have this discussion. I'm truly interested in their perspective.

I believe it was James Madison who said (and I paraphrase) we must protect the rights of the few from the tyranny of the many. Just because transgendered people are a minority does not make their rights any less significant than your rights. If throughout history we allowed the rights of the majority to prevail, things like women voting, the civil rights movement, the Ada, all would not have happened. Would you be uncomfortable with your daughter changing in front of lesbians? Or is it that they don't look different so you can't identify them?

 

[sunshinehighway]

A big problem with what many of you are saying is there seems to be this assumption that anyone dressed as a different gender must be transgender. That's just not the case.

 

[Gracie09]

There is a difference between dressing up in traditional opposite sex clothing and being transgendered. Generally those that aren't transgendered don't go out in public dressed that way. I find it ironic that on a board where people will defend their "right" to bring their tween and teen sons into the women's room, those same people would have a problem with a transgendered woman in the women's room. Why is one ***** ok but the other not

 

[TaylorEar]

A big problem with what many of you are saying is there seems to be this assumption that anyone dressed as a different gender must be transgender. That's just not the case.

The story in the OP is not about a man dressing as a woman going into a women's locker room. The original debate/issue raised was about whether or not a trans woman... aka a woman... has the right to go into a women's locker room. I think the big problem with what some people are saying in this thread boils down to ignorance and/or transphobia.

It's totally understandable to have questions due to a lack of knowledge, or exposure to a certain subject. It is not ok ( or understandable) to deny rights to people due to a lack of knowledge.

 

[Chocolate Cake]

The story in the OP is not about a man dressing as a woman going into a women's locker room.

But this was a man dressing up (poorly) as a woman. Still has a *****. The issue is can anyone just claim "I am a woman today!", put on a wig and leopard pants and walk into a dressing room?

We are looking at articles on this thread of people that change their sex daily. Of people who pretend to be female to gain access to an all girls' college and then change to male and demand 130 year old traditions be altered for them.

Where does this end?

 

[Kayabee]

A big problem with what many of you are saying is there seems to be this assumption that anyone dressed as a different gender must be transgender. That's just not the case.

Is that really a big problem? Are there high rates of men dressing up as women just to gain access to a woman's locker room?

 

[TaylorEar]

But this was a man dressing up (poorly) as a woman. Still has a *****. The issue is can anyone just claim "I am a woman today!", put on a wig and leopard pants and walk into a dressing room?

We are looking at articles on this thread of people that change their sex daily. Of people who pretend to be female to gain access to an all girls' college and then change to male and demand 130 year old traditions be altered for them.

Where does this end?

No. This was not a man dressing up as a woman... the person in the OP's reference was a trans woman... aka a woman. Identifying and being acknowledged as transgendered does not hinge on having gender reassignment surgery. There are MANY transgendered people who do not have full reassignment surgery (for a multitude of reasons). This has no bearing on their gender identity. I do not define my gender solely based on my genitalia. The other articles that have been posted on this thread are clouding the issue, and really have nothing to do with the original article/issue.

 

[RF536]

So answer me this, do all of you who are ok with transgender people, who have not had surgery, changing in the locker room of the sex they identify with walk around your house nude in front of your opposite sex children? I don't because I don't feel it is appropriate. I also don't want my sons getting an anatomy lesson in the gym locker room.
So to answer the question that had been asked of others, yes I would be fine if a lesbian was changing next to me or if a gay guy was in the locker room with my son, as it has nothing to do with sexual orientation.