Traffic laws: bus vs first responder right of way

[teller80]

When a school bus stops (at least in Ohio, idk if it's nationally) it turns on its red flashing lights and a little "stop" sign pops out of the side. It's a hefty fine if you pass the bus while it's in this mode.

Today, I was behind a bus that had stopped, the bus driver was outside helping a special needs child off the bus when from the opposite direction an ambulance passed the bus. It did not stop, and as far as I could tell it didn't slow down.

Are emergency vehicles exempt from this law?

 

[PrincessShmoo]

When a school bus stops (at least in Ohio, idk if it's nationally) it turns on its red flashing lights and a little "stop" sign pops out of the side. It's a hefty fine if you pass the bus while it's in this mode.

Today, I was behind a bus that had stopped, the bus driver was outside helping a special needs child off the bus when from the opposite direction an ambulance passed the bus. It did not stop, and as far as I could tell it didn't slow down.

Are emergency vehicles exempt from this law?

I would say yes, sort of.

I don't think a school bus is an "emergency" vehicle, even with it's lights flashing. Just a traffic hazard warning.

It's my understanding that, if a stopped school bus (lights flashing/stop sign deployed) is approached by an emergency vehicle, the driver is to get everyone back on the bus, shut the door, and turn off the lights and sign. The passing emergency vehicle must stop first, ensure that the driver did his/her job, and proceed.

 

[MataHari22]

In Pennsylvania the law is that the emergency vehicle must come to a complete stop and then exercise caution in proceeding to go around the bus. My friend drives school bus here. Personally, I don't think they should be allowed to go around, they could run over a kid.

 

[Disneylover99]

I would think that an ambulance, fire truck or police car with sirens on would be exempt from having to stay stopped for a school bus. I know that some of the school buses around me, put out their stop signs for what seems like an eternity.

 

[tvguy]

You don't say if the ambulance had it's red lights and siren on. And you did not say if this was a divided road or not.
Both can make a difference. Basic rules of Code 3 driving (driving an emergency vehicle with lights and siren on) are that every vehicle is supposed to yield the right of way to you but you must be prepared to stop in case they do not.
At least in California, you do not have to stop for a bus with the red lights on IF you are going the other direction AND if the road is divided by either an island, or a dedicated turn lane in the center. If the road is NOT divided, you must stop, even if you are going the opposite direction. Some school bus drivers I know refuse to use the red lights because it creates so much confusion and they feel it actually makes it more dangerous than not using them. An emergency vehicle is just like any other vehicle on the road if the lights and siren are off. The only exemption I am aware of in California that driver's of emergency vehicles have universally is that they can talk on a cell phone without a hands free device.

 

[Marchand63]

Yes but they must exercise care in passing. Slowing down & watching for children.

 

[jevs]

In my country emergency vehicles rule the road when their lights are on. Of course they exercise caution when doing so but they can go through red lights/stop signs/ped crossings etc.

All other vehicles should pull over to allow them to pass - sadly a lot of drivers in Australia are far too stupid to know they have to do this, those same people then whine about response times.

 

[goofyernmost]

Something about that logic just doesn't stick. Yes, I know that first responders are in a hurry, but, potentially killing a kid getting to a school bus will achieve nothing more then being at the scene of a disaster immediately. I can understand not stopping for the duration, but, the surely need to make sure that they are not endangering anyone in route to another emergency. Stop then go or at the very least, slow to a crawl before proceeding.

 

[manning]

We like to complicate here in Illinois. When a school bus stops on two lane road lights flashing.
when it stops on four lane on coming traffic doesn't have to stop.

When the law came out I kept going in opposite direction. Other cars stopped. You should have horn.
I would have liked to see the looks on their faces. I did this with the police station and a police car behind me.We both kept going. I bet they said oh boy I'm going to get a ticket. Well he turned into the station. The old law was you didn't have to stop on divided highway.

I wonder how many Illinois drivers got a ticket in Alabama. All traffic (both directions) have to stop on a divided highway.

All I have to say is make the law consistent in all states!!

 

[bcla]

You don't say if the ambulance had it's red lights and siren on. And you did not say if this was a divided road or not.
Both can make a difference. Basic rules of Code 3 driving (driving an emergency vehicle with lights and siren on) are that every vehicle is supposed to yield the right of way to you but you must be prepared to stop in case they do not.
At least in California, you do not have to stop for a bus with the red lights on IF you are going the other direction AND if the road is divided by either an island, or a dedicated turn lane in the center. If the road is NOT divided, you must stop, even if you are going the opposite direction. Some school bus drivers I know refuse to use the red lights because it creates so much confusion and they feel it actually makes it more dangerous than not using them. An emergency vehicle is just like any other vehicle on the road if the lights and siren are off. The only exemption I am aware of in California that driver's of emergency vehicles have universally is that they can talk on a cell phone without a hands free device.

California has almost a blanket exemption for "emergency vehicles" if responding to an emergency call or with the sirens activated. One of these exempt chapters includes the law on school bus lights/stop signs. However, only certain vehicles are considered as such, and I think they're required to have blue in the them. I've seen some vehicles that look almost like police vehicles, but lack the blue light.

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=21055

21055.

The driver of an authorized emergency vehicle is exempt from Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 21350), Chapter 3 (commencing with Section 21650), Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 21800), Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 21950), Chapter 6 (commencing with 22100), Chapter 7 (commencing with Section 22348), Chapter 8 (commencing with Section 22450), Chapter 9 (commencing with Section 22500), and Chapter 10 (commencing with Section 22650) of this division, and Article 3 (commencing with Section 38305) and Article 4 (commencing with Section 38312) of Chapter 5 of Division 16.5, under all of the following conditions:

(a) If the vehicle is being driven in response to an emergency call or while engaged in rescue operations or is being used in the immediate pursuit of an actual or suspected violator of the law or is responding to, but not returning from, a fire alarm, except that fire department vehicles are exempt whether directly responding to an emergency call or operated from one place to another as rendered desirable or necessary by reason of an emergency call and operated to the scene of the emergency or operated from one fire station to another or to some other location by reason of the emergency call.

(b) If the driver of the vehicle sounds a siren as may be reasonably necessary and the vehicle displays a lighted red lamp visible from the front as a warning to other drivers and pedestrians.

A siren shall not be sounded by an authorized emergency vehicle except when required under this section.​

 

[tvguy]

California has almost a blanket exemption for "emergency vehicles" if responding to an emergency call or with the sirens activated. One of these exempt chapters includes the law on school bus lights/stop signs. However, only certain vehicles are considered as such, and I think they're required to have blue in the them. I've seen some vehicles that look almost like police vehicles, but lack the blue light.

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=21055

21055.

The driver of an authorized emergency vehicle is exempt from Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 21350), Chapter 3 (commencing with Section 21650), Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 21800), Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 21950), Chapter 6 (commencing with 22100), Chapter 7 (commencing with Section 22348), Chapter 8 (commencing with Section 22450), Chapter 9 (commencing with Section 22500), and Chapter 10 (commencing with Section 22650) of this division, and Article 3 (commencing with Section 38305) and Article 4 (commencing with Section 38312) of Chapter 5 of Division 16.5, under all of the following conditions:

(a) If the vehicle is being driven in response to an emergency call or while engaged in rescue operations or is being used in the immediate pursuit of an actual or suspected violator of the law or is responding to, but not returning from, a fire alarm, except that fire department vehicles are exempt whether directly responding to an emergency call or operated from one place to another as rendered desirable or necessary by reason of an emergency call and operated to the scene of the emergency or operated from one fire station to another or to some other location by reason of the emergency call.

(b) If the driver of the vehicle sounds a siren as may be reasonably necessary and the vehicle displays a lighted red lamp visible from the front as a warning to other drivers and pedestrians.

A siren shall not be sounded by an authorized emergency vehicle except when required under this section.​

So we agree. An emergency vehicle not displaying lights and siren should stop for a school bus with red lights.

 

[bcla]

So we agree. An emergency vehicle not displaying lights and siren should stop for a school bus with red lights.

The OP didn't mention if the sirens were used. Certainly it would be untenable for a school bus to prevent an ambulance or fire truck from getting to an emergency scene. The siren and lights are supposed to be a warning to back off.

 

[daughtersrus]

I'm not sure about the bus situation but I was told by a local officer that County trumps local. State trump County and federal trump County. So a mail delivery truck trump all local vehicles.

 

[teller80]

@tvguy @bcla - OP here. Yes, the ambulance had lights and sirens going, and it was just a regular two lane road (not divided). I think at the very least the ambulance driver should have stopped, then the bus driver could have waved him on. I thought it was very strange that it just continued on w/o slowing down.

 

[QueenIsabella]

It may vary from state to state. I remember getting this question on an EMT exam--it's a good question, and I don't know if I got it right. FTR, I said that the emergency vehicle should stop. The whole point of stopping for buses is that children can get distracted, run into the road--that would go double and triple if a firetruck was coming. I do think the best answer would be for the bus to pull over BEFORE getting to the stop and putting their lights on, if possible. Second best would be the bus waving on EMS in a safe situation (all kids on bus, buckling someone in). But if kids are still coming, crossing the road--the EMS vehicle should stop. JMHO.

 

[tvguy]

@tvguy @bcla - OP here. Yes, the ambulance had lights and sirens going, and it was just a regular two lane road (not divided). I think at the very least the ambulance driver should have stopped, then the bus driver could have waved him on. I thought it was very strange that it just continued on w/o slowing down.

Yes. While the ambulance had the right of way. At least here, that is the type of situation where the emergency vehicle would be expected to proceed with caution.

 

[ravenclawtrekkie]

We didn't have a lot of school buses in NYC, which is where I worked as an EMT, but if I was responding to a call using lights and sirens, I would have definitely passed a stopped school bus. With caution, obviously, same as when you go through red lights - but my line of thought would be that the bus driver should see and hear me coming and take measures to keep the kids out of the road an extra moment.

No lights and sirens, you obey all traffic laws.

 

[Klayfish]

The answer is no, they do not need to stop if they have lights and sirens on. That does not give them the right to proceed at full speed past any hazard, traffic light, etc... They are to exercise due caution and proceed with care when entering an intersection, or passing a school bus. But they don't need to stop. My company insures a number of ambulances and medical transport services. Honestly, most accidents we see are caused by inattentive drivers not seeing the ambulance with lights and sirens on. Pretty rare the ambulance is the one causing the problem when lights on sirens are on.

Lights and sirens off, the ambulance is a vehicle on the road just like any other and must follow all regular traffic laws.

 

[manning]

Here in Illinois The driver of an emergency vehicle can be held responsible if he/she crosses the center line and hits someone. Crazy I know. Could be they may have change the law.

 

[teller80]

Here in Illinois The driver of an emergency vehicle can be held responsible if he/she crosses the center line and hits someone. Crazy I know. Could be they may have change the law.

Here in Ohio an ambulance driver was charged with involuntary manslaughter after he went through a red light (sirens and flashers on) but a car didn't stop and he broadsided it. This was back in the 80's, I don't remember how the case turned out, and of course the law may have changed here too. I only remember it because a coworker was selected for jury duty for the trial but got excused.