TourGuideMike...Which days at which parks & EMH ??

[Lewisc]

You capitalized and quoted the word "secrets" as if you are implying that the word was used by TGM or one of it's members.
I don't recall ever seeing the TGM site claim to have secret information and I don't recall seeing anyone on here claim that he has secret information. So if you would kindly point out where that claim was made, I'd appreciate it.

It's not about secrets, it's about advice and opinions.

YOU can go throught the thread yourself and search. There have been several reference on this thread and in fact one of the posters specifically quoted parts TGM's user agreement and legal notice in which the terms "intellecutal propety" and "trade secrets" are used.

I assume you're a TGM customer. Then you should have read the agreement that the member quoted in this thread but if you need a link:

http://www.tourguidemike.com/agreement.asp

Sorry but cutting through the stores in Main Street to avoid heat, rain or crowds (during a parade or otherwise) isn't a trade secret. For a member of DISBOARDS to have to edit his post because he was afraid of getting in trouble is just wrong.

Going to the low capacity rides in Fantasyland either first thing during EMH, during the parades or late in the day isn't a trade secret. It's in every hint board I've read.

 

[jerbroni]

Good gravy, can somebody just lock this thread?

It's obvious that the people that have followed (and not just 'read') TGM's advice feel they're getting their money's worth. Read the dozens of testimonials posted right here on the DIS. It's also obvious that there are plenty of people who either dislike TGM personally, or completely disagree with the 'pay for content' model in general. Great. Now that we're past the basics, why does anybody care what other people are doing? Does it really bother you that much that people pay for 'free' information, N.E.D., et.al.? I find that I am much happier worrying about my own vacation and spending habits rather than worrying about someone else on a fairly anonymous message board.

I will agree that the 'automated' in Automated Vacation Planner is one heck of a misnomer, because very little beyond the initial signup is actually automated for you, but TO EACH HIS OWN.

 

[HillPete]

Sorry but cutting through the stores in Main Street to avoid heat, rain or crowds (during a parade or otherwise) isn't a trade secret.
QUOTE]


Just in case anybody really cares, this particular 'secret' was brought up on this thread by someone who doesn't seem to understand the TGM philosophy. It has been tossed around for 9 pages as some sort of magical phrase from the heavens. The fact that the stores are connected is NOT one of TGM's so called 'secrets'. His user agreement refers to the 'when' of using it, not the fact that the path exists. It's not the most logical example of his advice. Mike never claimed that the stores cut-though was a trade secret, just his ideas about when the cut-through is most beneficial.

 

[mill4023]

YOU can go throught the thread yourself and search. There have been several reference on this thread and in fact one of the posters specifically quoted parts TGM's user agreement and legal notice in which the terms "intellecutal propety" and "trade secrets" are used.

I assume you're a TGM customer. Then you should have read the agreement that the member quoted in this thread but if you need a link:

http://www.tourguidemike.com/agreement.asp

Sorry but cutting through the stores in Main Street to avoid heat, rain or crowds (during a parade or otherwise) isn't a trade secret. For a member of DISBOARDS to have to edit his post because he was afraid of getting in trouble is just wrong.

Going to the low capacity rides in Fantasyland either first thing during EMH, during the parades or late in the day isn't a trade secret. It's in every hint board I've read.

I'm not a lawyer so I won't comment on the legal definition of the term "trade secrets" in a legal notice.
But if you read the main TGM page, I don't believe you will find that Mike says he has "secret" information. Mike's site is meant to be a thorough guide. So obviously some of his advice is going to be the same as the advice you read here or in the UG. His touring style, touring plans, and a lot of his advice on things like best days is different than what you will find elsewhere. Obviously, if there's information that you read in both the UG and TGM, than you don't have to keep that a secret.

I have no vested interest in promoting TGM. I found it to be very helpful and well worth the cost. The reason I get defensive is because it bothers me when people bash something or someone based on false assumptions. If you haven't been a subscriber, it is really unfair for you to give opinions on the service. If you have been a subscriber and didn't find value in it, I completely respect your opinion and your right to express it, but I don't understand the need to attack and be angry when you can get your money back.

The bottom line is that Mike provides a service that many people have found to be very valuable. If you don't think it's for you, don't sign up. If you do sign up and don't find it valuable, get your money back. What's to bash here? If he was trying to deceive people or rip them off, it wouldn't make a lot of sense to offer a complete money-back guarantee.

EDIT: Oh, and I don't think it's wrong for a member to be asked to edit their post because they disclosed something. It's not that they asked about EMH's, it's that they specifically stated what TGM recommends. That is the part that is a clear violation. Subscribers are paying for his advice and are asked to not disclose to the general public what his advice is.

 

[Lewisc]

Cutting through the stores to avoid rain, heat or crowds (during a parade or otherwise) isn't a trade secret. The fact that Mike says the obvious doesn't mean it's a trade secret.

Beautiful weather, no crowds, I don't want to shop I guess I won't cut through the shops.

I hope that's a bad example because it sounds like someone trying to make money by saying the obvious. The poster edited his post, it's pathetic that cutting through the stores during a parade is even thought to be some type of "trade secret".

Sorry but cutting through the stores in Main Street to avoid heat, rain or crowds (during a parade or otherwise) isn't a trade secret.
QUOTE]


Just in case anybody really cares, this particular 'secret' was brought up on this thread by someone who doesn't seem to understand the TGM philosophy. It has been tossed around for 9 pages as some sort of magical phrase from the heavens. The fact that the stores are connected is NOT one of TGM's so called 'secrets'. His user agreement refers to the 'when' of using it, not the fact that the path exists. It's not the most logical example of his advice. Mike never claimed that the stores cut-though was a trade secret, just his ideas about when the cut-through is most beneficial.

 

[Lewisc]

EDIT: Oh, and I don't think it's wrong for a member to be asked to edit their post because they disclosed something. It's not that they asked about EMH's, it's that they specifically stated what TGM recommends. That is the part that is a clear violation. Subscribers are paying for his advice and are asked to not disclose to the general public what his advice is.

I'm not sure why but posts in this thread aren't being footnoted when the original poster edits them.

The problem I have isn't with TGM but with people like yourself who chose to try to enforce his agreement. It's up to Mike to decide how much posting is "fair use". Consumers Union isn't able to stop companies from saying something like a well know consumer magazine has rated our vacuum cleaner number one. I question if Mike can legally stop someone from saying something like Mike favors EMH what's your opinion on a public internet board. The decision how much censorship is required is up to Mike, his lawyers and the owner of this site.

In this case the OP was really asking for the con of early entry. Mike seems to be in favor of using EMH (as are most guides) and OP was asking for the opposite view. The fact that Mike favors using EMH is public knowledge, look at his vip guide site.

Other than an attraction like Soarin which runs out of FPs I'd rather sleep in. I don't have young kids that want to ride the low capacity rides in Fantasyland.FP and the singles line will let me get all the major attractions I want to ride.

 

[madgomez]

I have no vested interest in promoting TGM. I found it to be very helpful and well worth the cost. The reason I get defensive is because it bothers me when people bash something or someone based on false assumptions. If you haven't been a subscriber, it is really unfair for you to give opinions on the service. If you have been a subscriber and didn't find value in it, I completely respect your opinion and your right to express it, but I don't understand the need to attack and be angry when you can get your money back.

The bottom line is that Mike provides a service that many people have found to be very valuable. If you don't think it's for you, don't sign up. If you do sign up and don't find it valuable, get your money back. What's to bash here? If he was trying to deceive people or rip them off, it wouldn't make a lot of sense to offer a complete money-back guarantee.

EDIT: Oh, and I don't think it's wrong for a member to be asked to edit their post because they disclosed something. It's not that they asked about EMH's, it's that they specifically stated what TGM recommends. That is the part that is a clear violation. Subscribers are paying for his advice and are asked to not disclose to the general public what his advice is.

This is all so well said and describes my feeling on this whole subject. I read back through the beginning of this thread to see "what went wrong", and it seemed to get off course, not when someone said "in my opinion, don't use TGM because it didn't work for me", but because the TGM site was attacked for its User Agreement. Why? Nothing to do with the original post - the TGM folks simply pointed out a problem and offered advice over on the TGM boards. Or is that the problem?

I came over to the DIS for info on DCL. I have to say I've been a little disappointed - dozens of pages on "Cranberry vs Pinapple", but the substantive questions I asked got few responses. I tried searching, and was overwhelmed at the amount of irrelevant stuff I had to wade through to find the topics I was interested in. I haven't given up, but the amount of effort required reminds me that, indeed, nothing is free. On the other hand, there seem to be lots of nice people and I learned some stuff here about decorating tee shirts and cabin doors that I really appreciate. But I cannot use DISBOARDS as a guide.

N.E.D., you neither upset nor offend me. You are entitled to your opinion. It's your motivation for personal attacks that alludes me.

 

[madgomez]

The problem I have isn't with TGM but with people like yourself who chose to try to enforce his agreement. It's up to Mike to decide how much posting is "fair use". The decision how much censorship is required is up to Mike, his lawyers and the owner of this site.

TGM folks try to enforce it because each User abiding by the User Agreement benefits all users. It's called privity of contract. Each TGM user has a vested interest in others not breaching the contract. Since Mike is "banned" from the DIS, how could he decide how much posting is "fair use"?

 

[mill4023]

I'm not sure why but posts in this thread aren't being footnoted when the original poster edits them.

The problem I have isn't with TGM but with people like yourself who chose to try to enforce his agreement. It's up to Mike to decide how much posting is "fair use". Consumers Union isn't able to stop companies from saying something like a well know consumer magazine has rated our vacuum cleaner number one. I question if Mike can legally stop someone from saying something like Mike favors EMH what's your opinion on a public internet board. The decision how much censorship is required is up to Mike, his lawyers and the owner of this site.

In this case the OP was really asking for the con of early entry. Mike seems to be in favor of using EMH (as are most guides) and OP was asking for the opposite view. The fact that Mike favors using EMH is public knowledge, look at his vip guide site.

Other than an attraction like Soarin which runs out of FPs I'd rather sleep in. I don't have young kids that want to ride the low capacity rides in Fantasyland.FP and the singles line will let me get all the major attractions I want to ride.

Mike can't spend his time visiting public message boards looking for people violating the terms they agreed to. Those of us who have paid for our subscription and abide by the agreement we made are naturally a little irritated when someone else starts disclosing the advice that they agreed not to disclose. So we sometimes bring it to the attention of the person who is violating their agreement. Most of the time, they just didn't think about it. If someone is not comfortable with the agreement, then they shouldn't have clicked the "accept" box and signed up for the service. I believe that when people make an agreement, they should stick to that agreement.

If I promise that I won't disclose something you told me, it would be wrong for me to then go out and tell everyone about it regardless of any legal issues.

 

[Pedler]

Consumers Union isn't able to stop companies from saying something like a well know consumer magazine has rated our vacuum cleaner number one. I question if Mike can legally stop someone from saying something like Mike favors EMH what's your opinion on a public internet board.

LewisC,

Just a point of clarification. I believe that a company can say a well known consumer magazine .... but can not specifically reference Consumer Reports.

Along the lines of TGM I don't think the agreement prohibits someone from saying to go or not go to EMH if they found out about it elsewhere. It would prohibit them from saying TGM says to.... That would be not only providing the information but also saying that it is advice from TGM. That last part, saying it is from TGM, I think would definitely violate the agreement. I don't think protecting if TGM agrees or disagrees and why to park touring advice is going out on a limb even if you feel the specific advice should be out on the open.

I don't know if that makes sense but attributing the advice to TGM is protected under the agreement.

 

[Lewisc]

TGM folks try to enforce it because each User abiding by the User Agreement benefits all users. It's called privity of contract. Each TGM user has a vested interest in others not breaching the contract. Since Mike is "banned" from the DIS, how could he decide how much posting is "fair use"?

Mike may be banned from posting but he's certainly able to read the board and make whatever complaints that he thinks are appropriate, legal or otherwise, directly to the owner of this board. How much posting is fair use or even good promotion for TGM is a decision that Mike has to make. It's up to Mike or the moderators of Disboards to decide if a post is over the limit NOT OTHER Disboard members or TGM customers.

Just because Mike said you should cut through the shops when Main Street is crowded doesn't mean it's a "trade secret".

 

[MrsNick]

Hi

To all of you who disagree with TGM, TGM's mission, TGM's business model, or TGM's outfit. Great. Don't use TGM.

To those of you who love TGM, great. Use TGM.

Some people like Fodor's, others like Frommers. In the end, only you know what works for you.

That said:

1. I have seen an incredible amount of misinformation on this post, and I do think that's misleading to someone trying to make an informed decision on whether to use TGM or not, or to use EMH or not.

2. But, this is a public discussion board, and people can post whatever they want, whether it is an opinion or a fact. In the end, people have to evaluate for themselves what others are posting and decide if it's credible or not.

3. I don't see a difference in whether a guide book is offline, as in a physical book, or online in terms of whether you should pay for it or not. Just because a service is internet based it should be free? I'm not sure I follow. A service is a service. If someone wishes to provide that service for a fee, I don't understand why that would offend someone. If you don't wish to pay for a service, then don't. I wouldn't expect the folks at wegoshop.com to deliver my groceries for free, just because it is internet based. I understand that "knowledge" is a more abstract product than a "delivery," but a product is a product is a product.

4. I do understand how people might misinterpret "automated," and do agree that perhaps TGM should listen up and come up with a more accurate means of conveying to the public exactly what it is that his service provides. Any good business will listen to customer feedback and adapt.

5. Can we all agree to disagree?

6. I love the DIS!

 

[Pedler]

Just because Mike said you should cut through the shops when Main Street is crowded doesn't mean it's a "trade secret".

Just a FYI and I don't mean this as a flame but you keep mentioning the above. If that is all that you think TGM is, a collection of "tricks" for the parks then you don't understand what TGM is all about.

Not an attack but just an observation.

 

[Lewisc]

Not trying very hard to be argumentative but I'm a subscriber to Consumers Reports and Consumers Union won't go after me if I make a general non-commercial post regarding a review but will go after a business that uses it for commercial purposes.

It's really up to TGM and Disboards to decide to what extent posts exceed fair use and might violate agreements and copyright laws.

To attack a person for saying Mike favors using EMH is ludicrous when Mike says so in publicly accessible pages. Some guests don't seem to like the fact that some people may not agree with the advice and are looking to people at Disboards for an opposing viewpoint.


As an aside my niece used Pal Mickey, first time I heard it. He actually told you when the lines were short at popular attractions and when you walked over they were right.

I'm done on this thread.

LewisC,

Just a point of clarification. I believe that a company can say a well known consumer magazine .... but can not specifically reference Consumer Reports.

Along the lines of TGM I don't think the agreement prohibits someone from saying to go or not go to EMH if they found out about it elsewhere. It would prohibit them from saying TGM says to.... That would be not only providing the information but also saying that it is advice from TGM. That last part, saying it is from TGM, I think would definitely violate the agreement. I don't think protecting if TGM agrees or disagrees and why to park touring advice is going out on a limb even if you feel the specific advice should be out on the open.

I don't know if that makes sense but attributing the advice to TGM is protected under the agreement.

 

[Mainebound]

Sorry but cutting through the stores in Main Street to avoid heat, rain or crowds (during a parade or otherwise) isn't a trade secret. For a member of DISBOARDS to have to edit his post because he was afraid of getting in trouble is just wrong.

Going to the low capacity rides in Fantasyland either first thing during EMH, during the parades or late in the day isn't a trade secret. It's in every hint board I've read.

All of this has been in the UG for many years, including the bit about Main Street shops.

 

[mill4023]

LOL.
This thread is a perfect example of why I like TGM.
There are about a dozen different opinions on here, some of them based on experience and some based on assumptions. If I had no knowledge of the subject, how would I know who is right and wrong. Or more accurately, which side I will end up agreeing with.

If half the people on the DIS say EMH's are great and half the people say EMH's are terrible, that's a case where I find it pretty valuable to see what someone who's in the parks hundreds of days per year thinks about EMH.

 

[WendyMichaelJohn]

I think something that might help those who are still deciding is the two TGM polls that are up right now. One is for those who have used it, one is for those who have not. (who hasn't used it and still had a great time, who has used it-did you like it, etc.)

The problem I'm having is that users of the UG are able to tell me a great deal about what they've paid for there because they don't have to agree not to tell. I can't really get any information on what exactly TGM offers because no one is allowed to talk. That makes it extremely difficult to make an informed decision. I'm not one to buy something just because people say, "It's great! I can't tell you why, but it is really great." It's like those mystery boxes on Ebay. I won't buy one because I don't know what is in it.

So what I'm having to go on is the experiences of those who have used it AND the experiences of those who have not used it. So far, I have mostly people who used it and had a great time and people who didn't use it who had a great time. A few who used it and got a refund. No one who wishes they had gotten it.

Bottom line, I think that if you're on the DIS or the UG or TGM, you're ahead of the crowd the second you register. Whether the UG tips or TGM tips are contraditory to one another or the DIS information is contradictory from poster to poster, bottom line,you're researching your trip, learning what there is to offer, and getting details. Our first trip, we did none of the above. We got there and didn't even know my handicapped cousin with us meant that we could get to the front of the line. We waited 1 hour for Space Mountain while someone waited with her wheelchair. But hey, we had a great time, in the dead heat of July, and we didn't even see half of MK.

Now that I've done even the tiniest bit of homework, I know I'm ahead of 90% of the people that go to WDW.

I'll admit, I got testy there, but I'm just shocked that in the time since I last posted, this thread is still going on and on. I think some people care a little too much about how others spend their vacation research time and vacation. That includes TGM subscribers AND TGM detractors.

So for those trying to make a decision, check out the two polls running. I think those might help a lot.

Personally, I decided today to go with no TGM for a good number of reasons. One, I'm exceptionally wary of anything that uses so many exclamation points. Just comes across as hard sell. There are no samples, unless you count those teensy thumbnails that are completely impossible to read. It is simply impossible to have any clue whatsoever what things will look like after you make your purchase. The list goes on, but I've made my decision I think, and I feel good about it.

Time to get happy. TGM or UG, we're all lime green, right?

Shel

 

[jerbroni]

Edited. Taking the high road.

 

[Mainebound]

Just curious...is TGM a qualified sociologist (a great deal of theme park people patterns are pure sociology) a mathematician, a trained travel expert....

What are his credentials? Is he just some guy? Does he have a staff? I haven't subscribed to TGM yet (not sure if I plan to) but it appears to me that the UG employs quite a few people and researches their advice from various angles. Just one guy doesn't have that same authority that a large group of professionals AND families would.
Shel

Actually, I always wondered the same thing. I have subscribed twice, never thought much of it, and won't be re-upping. He does say he worked as a VIP tour guide at WDW but we have no idea how long or how well.

People will find what they want. someone up thread says he helped them avoid lines in March. I don't know when they went, but we go the first week of March each year and you know what? On most days there AREN'T any lines. I coudl see a neophyte saying "Gosh, no lines. Must be TGM!"

 

[Lewisc]

Edited. Taking the high road.

You asked for information before you edited/deleted your post. Specifically you asked for a publicly accessible web page in which Mike favors EMH

http://www.michaelsvips.com/faq.htm#7

Every guide book and internet board favors using EMH. Saying Mike favors using EMH is not a trade secret but is certainly an opinion that can be discussed.

Not sure if you edited your post because you wanted to take the high road or because you realized you were wrong.