TourGuideMike...Which days at which parks & EMH ??

[mill4023]

No UG or TGM is going to make it better.

Shel

I totally disagree.
Following a good touring plan,whether it's UG or TGM, will mean a lot less waiting in lines. And I don't see how that could not make your vacation better. It's less tiring, less stressful, and just a lot more fun. Pedler pointed out that some people have said they preferred waiting in lines. I really don't understand that at all. If it's to connect with their family, wouldn't it be nicer to spend that time sitting down enjoying a long leisurely meal with them? Or just sitting and relaxing for awhile?

You made a comment about the UG talking to families with children and implied that Mike lacked that experience. But most of Mike's clients are families with children. He has lots of advice about going with children. For all 4 parks, he has different touring plans for those who have young children and those who don't. He has a whole section of articles specifically for planning with babies and young kids.

I'm not a fanatic and I certainly understand that not everyone will find TGM to be a great resource. People have different opinions. Though I do think some like N.E.D. seem to be really angry about TGM and I don't understand that at all. Mike offers a complete money back guarantee if you aren't happy, so what is there to be angry about? And I think the argument that the UG is better because you can read it for free at the library is quite silly. It's not like they give the book away. Probably 90% of the readers bought their copy. If they didn't, nobody would write books. So just like TGM, the UG is trying to make money by being experts on the subject of Disney World and charging for their knowledge and advice.

I won't claim that TGM has some super secret advice that nobody else knows. But I do think there is information there that I did not find in the UG or on the DIS. But it's not really the information or facts that you are paying for. It is the opinions and advice. I love the UG and even paid real money for my copy even though you could say all the same info is available for free elsewhere. I love the DIS, but there is a lot of conflicting advice here and after going to WDW, there are a number of things that I disagree with the majority of DIS'ers about.

The difference between TGM and the free advice found on these boards is that Mike and his staff are in the parks all the time. As much as I value reading everyone's opinions here, especially getting lots of different viewpoints, I think Mike is more qualified to give advice on certain topics like best days for each park just because he spends so much more time in them.

So I'm not a fanatic and TGM was only one of the many resources I used for my trip. But I found it to be easily worth $20 and I just bought another subscription for my next trip in March 06.

 

[Lewisc]

If I am not mistaken Mike has been told that he is not welcome here. He does have sponsership deals with at least one other site and I think there are more.



I don't think that is any different than the posts on why someone likes a car service or such over on the transportation board.

I can understand why a board that is based on the free flow of information isn't interested in promoting a board that has the opposite view. TGM is free to TAKE information from DISBOARDS and other sites but isn't willing to GIVE information in return.

I think it's different than discussing which car rental company to use BUT I am surprised Pete allows a free discussion of other internet Disney TA's when Dreams Unlimited is a source of income. I think that's a better comparison and I think it shows how open Pete runs his board.

An open discussion and debate on TGM would inevitably result in TGM users attack people for disclosing trade secrets. Not really a productive thread.

 

[Lewisc]

Pedler pointed out that some people have said they preferred waiting in lines. I really don't understand that at all. If it's to connect with their family, wouldn't it be nicer to spend that time sitting down enjoying a long leisurely meal with them? Or just sitting and relaxing for awhile?

Very few "normal" people want to wait in a 2 hour line. Universal and Disney have spent a lot of money theming the Que area. For some attractions a short line, less than 15 minutes, gives you an opportunity to see part of the attraction that you would otherwise miss.

 

[Pedler]

Very few "normal" people want to wait in a 2 hour line. Universal and Disney have spent a lot of money theming the Que area. For some attractions a short line, less than 15 minutes, gives you an opportunity to see part of the attraction that you would otherwise miss.

Our kids got to the point where a 5 minute line was too long!

I don't think anyone enjoys a 2 hour line, at least I hope not. I on the other hand look at it in a more simple fashion. If I spend only 2-3 minutes on average in line and someone else spends 10 minutes on average then I gain 7 minutes a ride or after 20 rides over 2 hours of extra time during the day. I guess if you go often enough you don't care that much about extra rides but when we were with our boys, 6 & 8, high ride density was important to them. That's we spent 3 mornings at MK and in each case we went on at least 15 rides just in the morning and never waited over 5 minutes in line.

BTW that was also with spending at least a half hour each day at Tom Sawyers Island. If anyone ran into two boys that were self proclaimed tour guides in the escape tunnel at the fort I can tell you who they were.

 

[NewEnglandDisney]

N.E.D., I think there is a big aspect of the TGM site that you overlook in your analysis (which surprises me since you seem to be so familiar with a site you find mostly worthless - I guess familiarity does breed contempt.)

I am very familiar with his site because I spent a great deal of time TRYING to find all this valuable, life-shattering information that some people who post here say is there. I paid for it, I was DETERMINED to find something to make it valuable, as this gospel of Mike. I didn't find it. But I tried, very, very hard. I found a few new perspectives, just as I do when I read opinoins on the DIS, but none of this "holy cow wow!" information. It has nothing to do with familiarity breeding contempt, but being sold one thing ("Automated Vacation Planner!") and not finding it.

When one buys UG or Passporter or any other guidebook, it is static. I love UG for its humour, and Passporter for its pockets and maps. But if I had purchased either of those this past year (or any other guidebook), it would not have provided up to date info with regard to the changes in ticketing, dining plan, AP discounts, ADR reservations, effect of new attractions on crowds and traffic flow, closures for rehab, etc. Yes, there are websites and updates to print, but a book is static. TGM is not. While some updates are not instantaneous, they are based on first-hand in the parks knowledge, quicker, and in more detail than anywhere else. Yes, that is supported by the forums, but the AVP is the driving force. Since TGM costs no more than your average guidebook, the updating alone makes it a veritable bargain, in my opinion. The forums are an added bonus, that didn't even exist when many of us first used TGM.

Well, it's obvious we just have different tastes, LOL, if you love the "humor". As someone who has scripted web pages before, when I see my name show up 17 times in one page, it makes it feel more impersonal than nothing at all.

I'm not going to defend buying guidebooks, because in the age of the internet I don't think they are gospel anymore, for exactly the reasons you cite. However, all of the information you cited above is available at the offical site, this site, or allears in terms of updates about rides closing, discounts, etc. I'd never tell someone "buy the UG and ignore everything else".

Now, you have piqued my curiosity. How, when and where did you meet Mike?

I'm not sure why you'd ask that, but nope, never met the guy. Subscribed to his site because people spoke so highly of it, and found nothing that I was led to believe was there. No "automated" anything, just a collection of articles with information repeated between many that really boil down to a list of common sense advice and a message board where his fans talk amongst themselves and wait for Him to speak.

It's great you enjoy TGM. I didn't find any value in it for myself, but as others have pointed out I may not be his target audience. I'm okay with you liking TGM - why aren't you okay with me not liking it?

N.E.D.

 

[edingerc]

empty

 

[awatt]

To those who state TGm is preferrable because he is up-to-date, and not static, as a book is, my experience was different.

I subscribed when TGM first came out. A that time many of teh promised articles were still under construstion,and did not come out for 3-6 months later. At that time, much of the info in the articles was not new to me. But, then WISHES came out. And I was reading all over the DIS boards how the best places to see Wishes were different from the old fireworks viewing spots. So I looked at the TGM site, and there was no change to the bestviewing spots. It was still talking about FITTS fireworks. So I emailed TGM, and he told me all the info I needed was on the website. While it was kind of him to reply, that info was not accurate, as Wishes had been running for about a month. And indeed to best vantage points were different,as i saw for myself. He did update his site about a month after I contacted him. But after that I would no longer consider him as up-to -date as some claim he is.

Since then,hopefully the website has been improved and the promised articles are in place. And hopefully the info is more "real-time" rather than lagging behind info on teh DIS.

I think for newbies,any plan/advice is helpful. After that, it's really a matter of personal preference whether to use TGM,UG or something else. What works for some may be suboptimal fo others

 

[Pedler]

Very few "normal" people want to wait in a 2 hour line.

What I couldn't believe were the people when we were there that were waiting in a 50 minute line for Peter Pan. We rode it several times, (More with DS6 that I care to admit) without any wait. Its a nice ride but definitely not worth that long of wait.

 

[WendyMichaelJohn]

I totally disagree.
.

How rude. So you're saying that my vacation simply will not be as good, no matter how much I love the people I'm going to be there with??????

There is an ENORMOUS difference between quantity and quality. I think we've all heard this our whole lives. And yet TGM promoters do nothing but QUANTIFY their trips ("we hit 26 rides while our friends hit only 19.") I'm sorry, but if we only go on 10 rides but we have a fantastic time in each other's company, WHO ARE YOU TO DEEM OUR VACATION NOT AS GOOD????????????????

As far as lines are concerned, I can see how families who get stressed out by lines would want to avoid them. Well, we don't get nearly as stressed by lines as others. We are all HUGE talkers, so we would probably end up having a great conversation cut off by a short line. But what we ARE is a family that gets stressed out by schedules and rushing. We HATE rushing. I was hoping there would be plans to help us cope with that. So far I haven't really found what I was looking for.

Bottom line, it is absolutely not at all for you to judge how great my vacation is or isn't. Wahoo for you for hitting 15 more rides than we do. You won't be with my kids or my husband, so as far as I'm concerned, I wouldn't trade vacations with you for anything.

I stick to my statement that no guide can make my trip better. Only my family can. Guides can make it more efficient and increase the quantity, but the quality really will be determined mostly by how we get along and appreciate our time together.

JMO and JMtrip!

Shel

 

[NewEnglandDisney]

If I tell you when Mike recommends you go through those stores to avoid the crowds, then I'm violating his intellectual property.

No, you are not.

That's the misconception that bothers me the most.

He doesn't "own" any of that information. He owns the format of the website and the exact wording, but not the facts contained within.

He says to do it during a parade or the fireworks when Main Street is crowded.

Common sense isn't intellectual property. Any intellectual property at that site is copyright Disney, not him. In fact, a case could be made that he is using proprietary knowledge since he worked there at one time.

aw:

N.E.D.

 

[WendyMichaelJohn]

BTW, our approach to avoiding 2 hour lines is going at a low crowd level time of year. Personally I think going on vacation in the great heat of summer is insane, but that's just my family. I'd be immensely surprised if we saw 2 hour lines during our time of year, but even if we did, we'd skip the ride. No big deal. We'll do something else. Watch the kids play in Toontown. Sit by a fountain and eat ice cream. Still just as fun to me.

Shel

 

[Disneydreamer315]

Very few "normal" people want to wait in a 2 hour line. Universal and Disney have spent a lot of money theming the Que area. For some attractions a short line, less than 15 minutes, gives you an opportunity to see part of the attraction that you would otherwise miss.

You know where they did not spend any money on the Que? Soarin. What a huge disappointment that Q was (loved the ride though). There were so many furious people waiting in line over an hour while we sailed pass with the old fast pass -- I have no regrets there.

And as for missing out in the spectacular ques of say Splash, and Space, well, I just encourage the kids to walk slowly in the empty line and to look around while we walk right up to ride part of the attraction. By the third or 4th time, they do slow down enough to look.

 

[madgomez]

Hi Pedler.

In the end, I just personally do not like him nor his site.
N.E.D.

I'm sorry, this is where I got the impression that you had met Mike. I can understand that you do not like his website, and I certainly am fine with that. That you can assert that you do not like someone you have never met certainly makes it easier to dismiss your opinions.

 

[Pedler]

Hi Shel,

I agree that ultimately you determine the quality of vacation. That is something that some of us lose sight of. I know when we went recently DB who is not a morning person always met us later in the morning at the parks. He was just there to spend time with his nephews. That is great for him.

On the other hand I do think that guide books can help the experience and not just in ride count or other things. For example the UG helped us pick out the Wilderness Lodge and that did have a positive effect on the vacation.

And I am glad that the lines do not bother your family. For our kids it would have detracted from thier vacation experience. FYI we did not run all over the place to do that. It was a very sane leasurily approach. There was no way we could hold up for 7 nights with that type of approach. As they say at TGM we zagged when everyone else zigged.

But to each thier own. As one person said you could go to Disney and do less than 5 rides and still have a great time.

 

[Lewisc]

What I couldn't believe were the people when we were there that were waiting in a 50 minute line for Peter Pan. We rode it several times, (More with DS6 that I care to admit) without any wait. Its a nice ride but definitely not worth that long of wait.

My comment on the ques is obvious directed to attractions like test track, Spiderman and even Splash Mountain.

I don't think Peter Pan is worth more than a 5 minute wait. I don't know TGM strategy but I don't even think Peter Pan is worth getting up for EMH to ride BUT

I guess if I had a screaming child that wanted to ride Peter Pan NOW I'd wait.

I'm tempted to just sign up for TGM, spend a few hours and if I don't find more than one or two things I don't already know get my refund. Alas I doubt there are any SECRETS, ride the low capacity rides very early, don't use your FP until you get your next one, take advantage of the lower lines during parades and so on really aren't secrets. Members of DISBOARDS have been promoting an afternoon break for as long as I've been reading DISBOARDS.

The cynic in me thinks one of the "secrets" to Mike's VIP tours is getting extra FPs from cooperative CMs or accumulating extra FP and assuming a cooperative CM will let an old FP slide.

 

[Pedler]

You know where they did not spend any money on the Que? Soarin. What a huge disappointment that Q was (loved the ride though). There were so many furious people waiting in line over an hour while we sailed pass with the old fast pass -- I have no regrets there.

And as for missing out in the spectacular ques of say Splash, and Space, well, I just encourage the kids to walk slowly in the empty line and to look around while we walk right up to ride part of the attraction. By the third or 4th time, they do slow down enough to look.

We weren't able to get our kids to slow down and look at the ropes they used to keep the lines in order. On the plus side after the 6th time on BTMRR they really noticed many of the nuances of the actual ride. For what its worth I would rather go on a ride multiple times and see the small things on it that you only notice after several times than have a detailed examination of the queue area. But hey if that is what people want to do more power to them. (And less waiting for me!)

 

[Pedler]

I don't think Peter Pan is worth more than a 5 minute wait. I don't know TGM strategy but I don't even think Peter Pan is worth getting up for EMH to ride BUT

I guess if I had a screaming child that wanted to ride Peter Pan NOW I'd wait.

There was a point on this trip I didn't think Peter Pan was worth doing as a walk on. I would have rather sat out on a bench in the hot August sun. But there were a few rides that DS6 wouldn't go on because he was afraid of them so we let him ride some things more often that I would have liked. (Can you say over 10 trips on the Barnstormer. )

 

[Lewisc]

You know where they did not spend any money on the Que? Soarin. What a huge disappointment that Q was (loved the ride though). There were so many furious people waiting in line over an hour while we sailed pass with the old fast pass -- I have no regrets there.

And as for missing out in the spectacular ques of say Splash, and Space, well, I just encourage the kids to walk slowly in the empty line and to look around while we walk right up to ride part of the attraction. By the third or 4th time, they do slow down enough to look.

I agree with Soarin, FP or first time in the day makes sense. I went to Soarin first thing in the am, maybe a 10 minute wait and then got a FP for later in the day. I certainly hope this isn't one of the secret strategies that TGM customers are paying for.

The FP line at Test Track misses most of the q. Certainly not worth a 2 hour wait but a 10-15 minute wait really isn't a big deal.

 

[madgomez]

My comment on the ques is obvious directed to attractions like test track, Spiderman and even Splash Mountain.

Members of DISBOARDS have been promoting an afternoon break for as long as I've been reading DISBOARDS.

Gee, WDW has a Spiderman ride?

And members of DISBOARDS have been criticising an afternoon break for just as long - that's the difference. No way for anyone without an enormous amount of time to devote to desciphering it all to be able to know the right answer for them.

 

[Pedler]

I'm tempted to just sign up for TGM, spend a few hours and if I don't find more than one or two things I don't already know get my refund. Alas I doubt there are any SECRETS, ride the low capacity rides very early, don't use your FP until you get your next one, take advantage of the lower lines during parades and so on really aren't secrets. Members of DISBOARDS have been promoting an afternoon break for as long as I've been reading DISBOARDS.

It takes more than a few hours to get a handle on TGM. It isn't so much the "trade secrets" as it is the whole touring plan methodology.

I have always said that for the multiple times a year seasoned DIS vets TGM may not be the best thing but you have to admit that your vacation experience is going to be different from the family of 4 going for a week that doesn't go as regularly as some of the folk here at the DIS do.

I mean there are posts here from people that go to WDW and hardly spend any time in the parks. Great for them but for lots of us the parks are the primary reason we go.