Total Money Makeover

luckofthedraw said:
LOL, no I've never been an accountant. In fact I hated accounting in school. Might explain learning via the school of hard knocks. :teeth:

No, I have a mentor who used to be an accountant. He's been well-blessed using some of these exact theories, and even though I am still taking baby steps, I am getting there.

Sorry, missed the "school of hard knocks" meaning - guess I should have stayed in college myself, but DS wouldn't have it ;)

I'm sure we will all get there one way or another. Just reading and posting on this thread shows we all have the "want" to do better! Good luck everyone!
 
ziggystardust said:
Like C.Ann said, even if it doesn't work for me, I'm no worse off b/c I read a book.
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Absolutely! :flower:
 
This is a great thread. I don't usually surf this board, but today I stopped by and discovered this thread, as well as the one about cutting back on eating out in order to save money. It was particularly interesting to read the agonies of the reforming shop-aholics. At the risk of sounding "preachy" I would like to offer some encouragement and food for thought to those who are making an effort to stop frittering their money away. Look around your home. Look at the furniture, household items, clothes, gadgets, and all the "stuff" you own. Think about how much all that "stuff" cost. Now, think about how much it is all worth if you needed to sell it, for whatever reason, next week. For the most part, even the nicest items you own would probably bring half what you paid for them, even if you bought them recently. Most everything else would bring a quarter, or a tenth, of what you paid.

To me, this realization takes the joy out of buying "stuff." What a waste of money! The more of your income you can put into assets that don't depreciate, and hopefully increase in value, the more you are building wealth. I am not saying that people should not buy furniture or clothes, or household items, but think twice about whether the item is something you really want or need badly enough to justify owning something that will immediately be worth a fraction of its price new.

Part of this perspective comes from the fact that DH deals in antiques and collectibles. Generally, antiques hold their value or increase. Used modern furniture and household items typically sell for pennies on the dollar. We just helped our in-laws, who lost their home in a fire, replace some of their belongings. Of course the insurance company (and mortgage lenders) consider the value of your belongings at the cost to buy everything new. My in-laws were stunned when DH started quoting the replacement prices for used items, similar to the ones lost in the fire. They couldn't believe things could be replaced so cheaply once they were "used" a bit. We took them to a local household auction. They bought a nearly new couch and chair and paid $430. We saw the same exact furniture last night at Bon-Ton at about 40% off and it still cost over $1,000 on sale. They bought a nice bedroom set for $375 that would certainly have cost at least $2000 in a furniture store. Decent dishes and general household items can often be purchased as "box lots" for a few dollars.

Most of what we own has come from eBay, auctions, estate sales, etc. and it is generally far better quality than we would feel we could afford if we had to buy the equivalent items new.

I realize most people don't have time to go to auctions, and some people don't like antiques, or are uncomfortable with buying via eBay. The point is, it is helpful to be aware that your purchases are not adding to your net worth, and in fact, are diverting money away from true wealth. Next time you are tempted with that $180 lamp, remember that a year from now it will probably bring $40.00 at auction, and the lamp may not seem so appealing after all.
 
Lisa loves Pooh said:
As far as the extended warranties--it is a paid service, it is not free with any of our credit cards.

I'm not sure what you mean about stop payments.

Are you sure you have to pay for it? It is free on every gold and platinum cc I have. Citibank, At & T..all of them. They have replaced the parts on my grands computer, my 19" Sony montor, a laptop computer (to the tune of $2,000) and even gifts I buy..such as my daughters camera. There is paperwork involved, but very worth it. This even comes into play, if I drop it when carrying it in the house or someone steals it from my car before I get it home (I haven't had to use that yet). All this is in addition to all the free rebates I get. I love the 5% check back on the citibank card!

By stop payments (although someone answered that farther down), if I order something and don't get it, or it's broken when I get it, I can ask my credit card to stop payment (at no cost, unlike when they stop payment on a check). They do check into it, and make sure the person who sent the item can't prove they did). I didn't realize a debit card did that..I thought you had to pay, to stop payment, like you do when you use a check.
 

Kay7979 said:
This is a great thread. I don't usually surf this board, but today I stopped by and discovered this thread, as well as the one about cutting back on eating out in order to save money. It was particularly interesting to read the agonies of the reforming shop-aholics. At the risk of sounding "preachy" I would like to offer some encouragement and food for thought to those who are making an effort to stop frittering their money away. Look around your home. Look at the furniture, household items, clothes, gadgets, and all the "stuff" you own. Think about how much all that "stuff" cost. Now, think about how much it is all worth if you needed to sell it, for whatever reason, next week. For the most part, even the nicest items you own would probably bring half what you paid for them, even if you bought them recently. Most everything else would bring a quarter, or a tenth, of what you paid.

To me, this realization takes the joy out of buying "stuff." What a waste of money! The more of your income you can put into assets that don't depreciate, and hopefully increase in value, the more you are building wealth. I am not saying that people should not buy furniture or clothes, or household items, but think twice about whether the item is something you really want or need badly enough to justify owning something that will immediately be worth a fraction of its price new.

Part of this perspective comes from the fact that DH deals in antiques and collectibles. Generally, antiques hold their value or increase. Used modern furniture and household items typically sell for pennies on the dollar. We just helped our in-laws, who lost their home in a fire, replace some of their belongings. Of course the insurance company (and mortgage lenders) consider the value of your belongings at the cost to buy everything new. My in-laws were stunned when DH started quoting the replacement prices for used items, similar to the ones lost in the fire. They couldn't believe things could be replaced so cheaply once they were "used" a bit. We took them to a local household auction. They bought a nearly new couch and chair and paid $430. We saw the same exact furniture last night at Bon-Ton at about 40% off and it still cost over $1,000 on sale. They bought a nice bedroom set for $375 that would certainly have cost at least $2000 in a furniture store. Decent dishes and general household items can often be purchased as "box lots" for a few dollars.

Most of what we own has come from eBay, auctions, estate sales, etc. and it is generally far better quality than we would feel we could afford if we had to buy the equivalent items new.

I realize most people don't have time to go to auctions, and some people don't like antiques, or are uncomfortable with buying via eBay. The point is, it is helpful to be aware that your purchases are not adding to your net worth, and in fact, are diverting money away from true wealth. Next time you are tempted with that $180 lamp, remember that a year from now it will probably bring $40.00 at auction, and the lamp may not seem so appealing after all.
-------------------------

You sound like my kind of people! :flower: I much prefer buying used items when they're available..
 
I think I will read this book although we're probably already doing most of what he says. We're living well below our means, saving 20% of our total income towards retirement, have no debt and don't feel we're missing out on anything. I laugh at the people who laugh at my 10 yo car. Every month goes by that I don't have a payment, I get richer. It gets me from point A to point B so how can that be a bad thing? :)

I love Suze Ormons stuff too. She gets into the emotional aspects of money and is right on most of the time. She can be a bit hard to watch, but she gives sound advice.
 
dvcgirl said:
The other interesting factor with buying new cars is that a new car loses 60% of it's value in the first four years of its life. Isn't that incredible? It's the largest purchase Americans make besides their home and it starts to lose money the second you pull out of the dealership lot. He also advocates cutting out the middle man when buying a used car...the dreaded used car dealer....and buy from an individual who isn't likely to stick you with a huge mark-up.

And speaking of debt, I heard a statistic on the radio (Clark Howard show) the other day about car loans. The average length of a car loan in this country right now is 63 months. That means that there are more and more people are taking out 72 month and 84 month loans. Like Howard says, "people, if you need to pay 72 or 84 months for a car....you can't afford it!!" Also, 1/3 of people who are trading in cars for a new one are "upside down" in their loans, meaning that they owe more on the car than the car is worth. And, also, he said that leasing is back up to 20% in this country.
I knew about the value of cars (since I use to work in the finance department.) At the finance co. I use to work with the longest loan we did was for 48 months. I can't believe that the average loan for a car is 63 months. My car loan is only 36 months and by January the car will be completely paid off.
 
C.Ann said:
"Rags to Retirement" by Gail Liberman and Alan Lavine

Thanks, C.Ann! I'm going to see if I can get it from my library :)
 
C.Ann said:
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You sound like my kind of people! :flower: I much prefer buying used items when they're available..

Glad to say that we've purchased a ton of second hand stuff in the past year and it has been great. Of course, the second hand stores here are not terrific, but we drive to a certain part of NJ and really clean up. I can still get my nice stuff for the kids, but at a fraction of the price. And in NJ, no tax on clothes! :banana:

I used to like ebay too, for designer items, but I have been leary lately of purchasing in light of the new (and the same old ) scams.
 
Well my decorating sense stinks--otherwise I'd love to decorate my home with odds and ends that magically coordinate. But alas--I stink at it.

After 7 years of free couches--we finally invested in new and I LOVE them! Of course--it took us 7 years to come to a consensus...and still 2 hours to decide on a set that we mutually agreed on that was comfortable yet stylish.
 
Congrats Lisa Loves Pooh! I think I should say I would draw the line on upholstered furniture. Too much can sink into those cushions :eek: . I would buy new too. Our set is 7 years old, but still hanging on. When the kids are done making a mess of it we will buy another new set. Hopefully, on sale.
 
RichNKatHolly said:
Congrats Lisa Loves Pooh! I think I should say I would draw the line on upholstered furniture. Too much can sink into those cushions :eek: . I would buy new too. Our set is 7 years old, but still hanging on. When the kids are done making a mess of it we will buy another new set. Hopefully, on sale.
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First let me say that I understand your reluctance to purchase used upholstered furniture as it really isn't everyones cup of tea - but it reminded me of something funny that happened a few weeks ago.. Friends of my DD & her DH were thinking of buying a travel trailer.. My SIL suggested they look at used ones because often times you can get a travel trailer that is only 1 year old for a remarkably low price.. The friends were horrified!! Sleep on a bed that someone else had slept on? NEVER!!! They insisted that nothing but "brand new" would be acceptable to them - until my DD reminded them that every time they sleep in a hotel they're sleeping on a bed that hundreds - if not thousands - of other people have slept on.. LOL :flower:
 
C.Ann said:
---------------------

First let me say that I understand your reluctance to purchase used upholstered furniture as it really isn't everyones cup of tea - but it reminded me of something funny that happened a few weeks ago.. Friends of my DD & her DH were thinking of buying a travel trailer.. My SIL suggested they look at used ones because often times you can get a travel trailer that is only 1 year old for a remarkably low price.. The friends were horrified!! Sleep on a bed that someone else had slept on? NEVER!!! They insisted that nothing but "brand new" would be acceptable to them - until my DD reminded them that every time they sleep in a hotel they're sleeping on a bed that hundreds - if not thousands - of other people have slept on.. LOL :flower:

With something like that, I would imagine (don't know b/c I've never been in the market for a travel trailer) that at that point, buying used would save a lot, and you go out and buy a new mattress for like $200. That would make more sense to me.
 
ziggystardust said:
With something like that, I would imagine (don't know b/c I've never been in the market for a travel trailer) that at that point, buying used would save a lot, and you go out and buy a new mattress for like $200. That would make more sense to me.
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Bingo! That would make "sense" but we're not talking about a "sensible" couple here.. Ever hear of someone trading in their vehicle when the carpet gets a speck of dirt on it - or the white wording on the tires looks a bit faded? "Sensible" is not in their vocabulary..
 
ziggystardust said:
With something like that, I would imagine (don't know b/c I've never been in the market for a travel trailer) that at that point, buying used would save a lot, and you go out and buy a new mattress for like $200. That would make more sense to me.

FWIW, and this is getting OT so forgive me but... We recently bought a new (to us, used to everyone else) motorhome and learned that used saves a ton because not only is the price substantially less, but someone else has already eaten the depriciation. And many dealers that we talked to were willing to throw in a new mattress and thoroughly clean the upholstery to close the deal. They are aware of the "ick" factor and are willing to help minimize that. :flower:
 
Keep in mind when buying a new motor home, just like a car, you aren't buying someone elses problems. Also if buying a used motor home or Travel trailer, miles are really important. It may have low miles, but they may have parked it and lived in it for a year, which is a several year's worth of use in a motor home (they generally have low miles compared to a car..if not, you want to know that too). My suggestion if buying used, is to head for Florida, where one spouse may have died and the other spouse is selling, and it would prob have minimal wear. We bought our first brand new travel trailer in 2000 (we had three used ones in the past..each one with someone else's problems..hidden leaks (even though we thought we really looked good..if they put in a new panel, it's hard to tell), hole in black tank, a floor in the bathroom, that had been wet, but they covered it with tile, etc. We had to take that down to the outside to fix it.
I was surprised that with shopping around (we faxed everything we wanted to several dealers within the distance we were willing to travel), we got our new one for 75% of the msrp. A used one (one year old) was only $850 less, and a "new" leftover, was only $200 less because it was originally more to start with. This is a Holiday Rambler, which we ordered, so we could get everything we wanted on it. We also looked at many private slightly used RV's. I loved the one where they said they only had it out once, but forgot to mention on the phone, that they and their 4 kids lived in it for the year it took them to build thier house. While we could have replaced the mattress, I'm afraid the wood underneath would also have to be replaced to get rid of the smell of urine. Carpeting would have also had to be replaced..apparently they were not neat eaters.
So, while I was happy with our used RV's, since we keep our stuff a long time, I am so much happier with new (and when the tree fell on it, it was very easy to get the insurance company to fix it totally LOL). If the price is really good (Motor homes and RV's in good shape don't depreciate anywhere near like a car does..check out the blue book, our RV has a higher blue book price than we we got the original 25% off..5 years later) and you are happy with it, then it may be worth it...but you really have to do your homework on this. Some people will pay a lot more than they have to for a new one, making a used one seem like a good deal.

Of course, the people who would get a new car because of a speck on the carpeting..I guess they have money to burn LOL. That's just plain silly.
 
DMRick said:
Of course, the people who would get a new car because of a speck on the carpeting..I guess they have money to burn LOL. That's just plain silly.
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They don't "do" used at all - period.. Nor do they shop around.. They'll just go to a dealer and pay whatever the sticker says (ditto for their cars).. Keep in mind this is the same couple that just a week or so ago was so "generous" as to offer to pay "half" the cost involved in expanding my extra lot so they could park this "brand new" travel trailer there year-round.. Of course they also wanted to hook into my septic system and hook into my electricity (for free of course)... Always nice to have a "dream" - huh? :teeth: Just this past weekend they came up to visit my DD & her DH for the weekend (stayed with them) and by Sunday morning DD & her DH were so fed up with their nonsense they basically told them to go home.. LOL

My sister bought a brand new travel trailer the last time around because she had plans of living in it (no more house) for at least 6 months out of the year.. That's all changed now - she used it for one season and it's up for sale..

The most recent travel trailer my DD & DH purchased took forever for them to find.. They did a nationwide search and couldn't find one new (with a reasonable price) or used.. There were certain specifications that my SIL wanted (a lot of customized stuff) and it was like trying to find a needle in a haystack.. When he was just about ready to give up and buy something else he got lucky and found the brand new model he was looking for with all of the customized extras.. I don't know if he was happier over getting exactly what he wanted or happier that he got it for such a steal.. LOL.. The only way I forsee them going shopping for a different travel trailer anytime soon now is if THEY expand the lot to make more room for a 37ft.+.. I'm thinking they'll probably just wait for me to kick the bucket, knock down this place and build some big beautiful vacation home.. :rotfl:
 
C.Ann said:
---------------------

First let me say that I understand your reluctance to purchase used upholstered furniture as it really isn't everyones cup of tea - but it reminded me of something funny that happened a few weeks ago.. Friends of my DD & her DH were thinking of buying a travel trailer.. My SIL suggested they look at used ones because often times you can get a travel trailer that is only 1 year old for a remarkably low price.. The friends were horrified!! Sleep on a bed that someone else had slept on? NEVER!!! They insisted that nothing but "brand new" would be acceptable to them - until my DD reminded them that every time they sleep in a hotel they're sleeping on a bed that hundreds - if not thousands - of other people have slept on.. LOL :flower:


LOL - I can say I am not like that. I would definately buy a used trailer. I just happen to have had some experience with used furniture that was NASTY!!!

Now I will buy almost anything used to save some $$. I get such a high off getting a great deal!!
 
My stepdaughter and her DH got "the book" today and she actually called me in tears tonight.. They had both reached the point where they felt bankruptcy was the only option but now they feel as though they at least have some sort of "plan" to try to rectify the situation before they're forced into that final step.. I think they'll give it their best shot, but whether it will work for them or not remains to be seen.. Some of their habits definitely need to change, but in all fairness, some of the problems were unavoidable.. (The DH donated one of his kidneys to his son and it involved a great deal of travel.. After the donation surgery there were complications; unpaid time off from work for both of them; etc. Then the new kidney for the son failed, his medical insurance tapped out and they were doing what they could for him, at their expense..)

I don't know if it will work for them or not, but I do know that some kind of plan is better than no plan at all! Hold a good thought for them, if you're so inclined..
 















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