Tonight on PBS - Walt Disney: Triumph of the American Imagination

[Deb in IA]

Be sure to watch, or set your DVR for 9 pm/8 central time for American Experience on PBS:

 

[BrianL]

Thanks for the tip! I just set up to record.

 

[MataHari22]

Thanks! I set it up to record.

 

[lucas]

Thanks for the reminder.

 

[cabanafrau]

We have this set to record, too. I'm interested -- and very curious to see how the story is presented in light of the fact TWDC wanted some editorial input, was denied and cooperated anyway. I'm most hopeful to seeing tidbits about the making of the classic movies and the process of creating Disneyland.

 

[Micca]

Thanks for the reminder Deb! I watched a brief preview of the program and it's really well done. I will say that for long-time fans/students of Walt's story, there's quite a bit of familiar material (photos, film, etc.) Maybe we can all meet back here for discussion after the show!

 

[Geoff_M]

Deb, thanks for the reminder... when someone posted the trailer for this a couple of months ago, my wife and I both went "Ooooooooow!!!!"

Preview Link

 

[Deb in IA]

A bump for the evening crowd.

 

[Nohal]

Thanks for posting. I wasn't aware of this.

 

[wdwpracticalprincess]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/walt-disney

so excited to watch!

 

[Geoff_M]

DVR is set. I'm reading Marty Sklar's book "Dream it! Do it!" and I've already been struck by some of the things hinted at in the preview, namely that Disney rarely praised any of his employee's work. Sklar said that Disney seemed to think that the actual success of any project should be reward enough for his worker bees, and his personal approval only came through the assignment of more projects or work.

 

[Dentam]

Watching it now - thanks for the heads up! It's so inspiring!

 

[Deb in IA]

I thought last night's show was excellent and can't wait for tonight!

Very balanced - it showed Walt and his great strengths, and also some of his shortcomings, including his early business failures, his lack of empathy for his entry-level employees.

 

[Dentam]

I had never read a biography about Walt Disney or seen a program like this before. I'll be watching the second part tonight. It was interesting to learn about his shortcomings - the lack of empathy for entry level employees like you said and the gender discrimination in his company were eye openers for sure.

 

[Geoff_M]

For those that watched it, did anyone else find some deviations from the standard telling (from The Disney Company) of some of the events of Walt's life? One of the things that's unique about this documentary is that this represents the first time anyone has been given access to the Disney Archives without Disney retaining editorial control of the final work.

I found a couple new spins (to me, anyway) on the Disney back-story last night....
(I'll scroll down in case people have DVR'ed it to watch later and don't want any spoilers.)
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1) In addition to Walt losing control of Oswald to Charles Mintz via the distribution contract, the Disney version of the story implies, IIRC, that Walt also lost control of most of the animators that drew Oswald due to the same contract. However, last night they said that in fact the animators jumped ship to work for Mintz on their own accord due largely to job dissatisfaction with the workload that Disney placed on them coupled with the fact that Walt kept most of Oswald's profits for himself.
2) In the oft played audio recording that The Disney Co. uses of Walt talking about the creation of Mickey Mouse, he claims that Mickey was created by himself on the long train ride back from NYC after losing Oswald. However, the documentary last night stated that the details of the character that became Mickey Mouse (including his species) was created as a team effort involving Walt and other animators once he got back to California. It would seem that perhaps Walt simply decided to start over with a new "better" character on the train trip, but only had some nebulous ideas of what he wanted, whereas the "official" version is that Walt walked off the train with completed concept drawings of Mickey.

One other thing that struck me (not that it conflicted with any "official" telling), was how the documentary talked about Walt's relationship with his father. It seemed like Walt's relationship was pretty distant to the point that Walt didn't seem like he really cared much for him, particularly given that Walt seemed to work so hard to NOT be like his father when it came to his relationship to his immediate family.

 

[Geoff_M]

I had never read a biography about Walt Disney or seen a program like this before. I'll be watching the second part tonight. It was interesting to learn about his shortcomings - the lack of empathy for entry level employees like you said and the gender discrimination in his company were eye openers for sure.

I agree that it's nice that they are presenting a balanced view. But with regard to the points you raise, I'd keep these things in mind:
- Not that it makes it right, keep in mind that Walt was very much a product of his time. It was standard practice to pay women less, particularly when it came to what was seen a "lesser skilled" labor. The fact that Walt Disney Studios wasn't a model of progressive thinking shouldn't come as too much of a surprise.
- The documentary made it clear that the lack of empathy that Walt had in the late 30's was, in major part, was a consequence of the "utopian" company campus that he created that interjected layers of bureaucracy into the company and allowed Walt to develop an "ivory tower" complex. That, combined with his past history of not exactly "sharing the wealth" with others, was a bad combination.

 

[cabanafrau]

I'm only familiar with the story of Walt in very broad brushstrokes and was curious to see this story played out, knowing TWDC wanted the editorial control, was denied, yet cooperated with the production. I believe that's a first from what I had heard a while back about this documentary.

Honestly I was a bit surprised that it seems this other animator I'd never heard mentioned before seems to be the actual hand that refined Mickey into the Mouse we know, not Walt -- and is more responsible for the styling of the old characters we've come to know as classic Disney. I've not finished last night's episode yet, but I'm eager to see what became of this other talented animator. It looked to me Walt was very much the influence behind the shift in tone that the Silly Symphonies brought to the world of animation, moving away from the bam! pow! violent storylines to gentler, sillier plots and the animator Ub something shifted Walt's style from similar to the industry norm into the classic styling we know as distinctly Disney today.

 

[Geoff_M]

Honestly I was a bit surprised that it seems this other animator I'd never heard mentioned before seems to be the actual hand that refined Mickey into the Mouse we know, not Walt -- and is more responsible for the styling of the old characters we've come to know as classic Disney.

I thought it was pretty funny when one of those interviewed committed 'Disney heresy" when he said "Actually, Walt wasn't that good of an artist."

For those that missed it, PBS has the full episode stream posted: LINK

 

[Micca]

I thought last night's show was excellent and can't wait for tonight!

Very balanced - it showed Walt and his great strengths, and also some of his shortcomings, including his early business failures, his lack of empathy for his entry-level employees.

It's nice to get a more realistic look at the life & story of Walt. When I read/watch Disney sanctioned content, I know that it has been sanitized to preserve a crafted version of the story. I can understand that, if I were the Disney family I'd probably appreciate that.

For those that watched it, did anyone else find some deviations from the standard telling (from The Disney Company) of some of the events of Walt's life? One of the things that's unique about this documentary is that this represents the first time anyone has been given access to the Disney Archives without Disney retaining editorial control of the final work.


.In the oft played audio recording that The Disney Co. uses of Walt talking about the creation of Mickey Mouse, he claims that Mickey was created by himself on the long train ride back from NYC after losing Oswald. However, the documentary last night stated that the details of the character that became Mickey Mouse (including his species) was created as a team effort involving Walt and other animators once he got back to California. It would seem that perhaps Walt simply decided to start over with a new "better" character on the train trip, but only had some nebulous ideas of what he wanted, whereas the "official" version is that Walt walked off the train with completed concept drawings of Mickey.

One other thing that struck me (not that it conflicted with any "official" telling), was how the documentary talked about Walt's relationship with his father. It seemed like Walt's relationship was pretty distant to the point that Walt didn't seem like he really cared much for him, particularly given that Walt seemed to work so hard to NOT be like his father when it came to his relationship to his immediate family.

Geoff I may have some additional comments after I get through the second half of last night's show, but wanted to touch on a couple things now:

With respect to drawing Mickey on the train, that tale always seemed a bit apocryphal to me. I've even heard that Walt spied a mouse on the train and that's what inspired him to create Mickey. I think your perspective is correct in that Walt collaborated with what was left of his team, and especially Iwerks to create Mickey. I don't think that takes anything away from Walt's legacy, seldom does a successful artistic endeavor come to fruition without a group effort.

And with respect to Walt & his dad, I think that was just the way a lot of poor/rural families functioned back then. I've seen hints of that sort of thing in my own family from decades ago. Dad puts a roof over your head, and provides some meals, no need for warm & fuzzy.

 

[carmelhp]

I'm only familiar with the story of Walt in very broad brushstrokes and was curious to see this story played out, knowing TWDC wanted the editorial control, was denied, yet cooperated with the production. I believe that's a first from what I had heard a while back about this documentary.

Honestly I was a bit surprised that it seems this other animator I'd never heard mentioned before seems to be the actual hand that refined Mickey into the Mouse we know, not Walt -- and is more responsible for the styling of the old characters we've come to know as classic Disney. I've not finished last night's episode yet, but I'm eager to see what became of this other talented animator. It looked to me Walt was very much the influence behind the shift in tone that the Silly Symphonies brought to the world of animation, moving away from the bam! pow! violent storylines to gentler, sillier plots and the animator Ub something shifted Walt's style from similar to the industry norm into the classic styling we know as distinctly Disney today.

The Ubbe ("Ub") Iwerks story is recounted in The Hand Behind the Mouse.

From Wikepedia, "In the spring of 1928, Disney lost control of the Oswald character, and much of his staff was hired away; Disney left Universal soon afterwards. He promised never to work with a character he did not own ever again.[8] Disney asked Ub Iwerks, who stayed on, to start drawing up new character ideas. Iwerks tried sketches of frogs, dogs, and cats, but none of these appealed to Disney. A female cow and male horse were created at this time by Iwerks, but were also rejected. They would later turn up as Clarabelle Cow and Horace Horsecollar.[9] Ub Iwerks eventually got inspiration from an old drawing. In 1925, Hugh Harman drew some sketches of mice around a photograph of Walt Disney. These inspired Ub Iwerks to create a new mouse character for Disney, eventually called Mickey Mouse.[10]"

8. Neal Gabler, "Walt Disney:The Triumph of the American Imagination" (2006), p. 109.
9. Kenworthy, John; The Hand Behind the Mouse, Disney Editions: New York, 2001. p. 53.
10. Kenworthy, John; The Hand Behind the Mouse, Disney Editions: New York, 2001. p. 54.