Toddler's Temper Ousts Family From Plane

[2Princes2Princesses]

Sorry but I do not agree. I would hate to hear what the other passengers on a flight would say to the FA who announced "there is a dog whining in the hold, so we will be delayed"

I don't think the language would be pretty.

The issue for the airline was not that she was crying. She would not buckle in. I would love to see someone say to the cop that pulled them over, "Sorry officer, but kids will be kids! She doesn't WANT to get in her car seat."

I am sure he would be very understanding as he wrote the ticket.

So Airtran should have given them...15, 20, 30 minutes to calm her. Fine. So let's say all 112 other passengers had connections and missed them. Then what? Airtran tells 112 people "tough luck?" Has to find 112 seats on other flights? Has to refund 112 fares?

I live near Buffalo. Jet blue connects through Boston to here and only once per night. So if I was on that plane and missed my connecting flight, I would be forced to get a hotel, pay for a flight on another airline, or spend the night at Logan with my 2 toddlers because someone's 3 year old needed 30 minutes to decide she wanted to sit down and put her seatbelt on?

Part of what gets my back up about this is it is another "sense of entitlement" issue. The parents obviously thought that their problem was more important than anyone else on the plane. And sitting at the gate reasoning with a 3 yr old teaches her than noone matters on that plane but HER. A previous post mentioned other delays.....a flat tire during rush hour...that is an inadvertent, unpreventable thing. Taking 20 items in a 10 item or less lane and writing a check? To me, doing that would tell anyone behind me that I could care less about other people.

Maybe there was a man on that flight trying to get home before his wife gave birth, or any one of a million important things. But this child's parents obviously cared about noone but themselves. I don't think it is a lack of spanking that has some children behaving as they do these days. It is a total lack of concern about others. And holding up an entire plane so your child can do things "her way" teaches her that other people are not important. Only she is.

 

[dudspizza]

You know change this to a poor little doggy crying in the hold and this would be a whole different story. Suddenly it would be cute, everyone would have had patience and waited for little fido to calm down BUT have a kid have a hard time and the family is SOL. Blame the parents for not handling their child properly. She is three and they sometimes cannot deal with adult situations and preform like adults do.

I am sure the attendents could not have handled it anyother way...They did exactly what they could (note sarcasm here) Argueing with a parent who is having a hard time is not helping the situation. @@

Anyway the only thing I blame that family for is choosing Airtran to fly with. I have unfortunately flown with them and I swore never again.

Cut the family a break, kids cannot behave all of the time. I am sure no one on that plane has ever had anything happen where they caused anothers delay. Perhaps a flat tire during rush hour, the wrong documents to get out of the parking lot at MCO, 15 minutes late to a doctors appointment messing up all the appointments after, going in the ten items or less line with 20 items then pay by check etc....

We are not talking about some wimpering here.... we are talking about an out of control child hitting her parents and refusing to get into her seat! Everyone must be buckled before take-off, no exceptions once you are 2+.

Do I feel for the parents, sure. No clue how they parent and won't nail them for that. The fact is what ever they were doing did not work. How long is "a little more time"? 15 more minutes and the kid is still not in control.... If they were having this issue in the car, they could pull over and take all the time they wanted to as it would not hold up anyone else. Holding up a plane full of passengers is unacceptable. Airlines have schedules to keep and more passengers waiting for that plane at the next desitination.....

Way to go Airtran. They were wonderful to fly for me and I will not hesitate to fly them again in the future.

Hey, 2P2P, keep up the good parenting!

Duds

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

I don't know if it was mentioned but how long was the tantrum going on for?

Also my point before about the puppy would not be the passengers (of course they would complain) but the media coverage.

Also we were once on a flight that was delayed waiting for ONE person whose connecting was delayed. They held our plane for 20 minutes for this person. He comes walking in in his military uniform obviously on his way home. People started to boo him until others started to cheer over the boos. But still people were annoyed that we waited.

IMO people do not have empathy. It is all about them. So quick to worry about themselves no compassion at all for others.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Cut the family a break, kids cannot behave all of the time. I am sure no one on that plane has ever had anything happen where they caused anothers delay. Perhaps a flat tire during rush hour, the wrong documents to get out of the parking lot at MCO, 15 minutes late to a doctors appointment messing up all the appointments after, going in the ten items or less line with 20 items then pay by check etc....

Sigh... First, what's the recommended action when a child is behaving badly? Remove the child from the situation, right? That's all AirTran did... because apparently the parents wouldn't.
As for causing delays? Flat tire during rush hour causes delays ONLY because other drivers simply must slow down to gawk; wrong documents getting out of the parking lot at MCO delays a few other vehicles for a few minutes until your issue is cleared up or the vehicles move to other lanes; don't know about YOUR doctor, but every one I've been to, if you're late, they fit you in when they can (kinda like ADRs - you get the next available 'seating' once you check in, at or after your reservation/appointment time; abusing the express line, same response as your 'wrong document delay' scenario.
On the other hand, THIS incident delayed the other 112 passengers AND the flight crew AND the plane itself - the latter two causing rippled delays throughout the rest of that plane's and that crew's scheduling.

 

[snowbunny]

I don't think it is a lack of spanking that has some children behaving as they do these days. It is a total lack of concern about others. And holding up an entire plane so your child can do things "her way" teaches her that other people are not important.

Well said

 

[Pinnie]

Kuddos to Air Tran!! A delay in pushing back at the gate can also delay take off. That happened once in Atlanta to me. We were waiting for some standby passengers to find their seats, which were already taken. That delayed push back. We we finally pushed back (20 min late) we got stuck behind a huge bank of Delta planes waiting to take off. The same situation could have occured with this flight.

I am so tired of the memememe mentality of some people. This child was out of control and since the parents couldn't be in charge, the FAs decided to step in.

pinnie

 

[mom2my3kids]

I don't know how I feel about this. As a parent of three children, from time to time my toddler's have had a melt down at some point. I think EVERYONE'S child has no matter how perfect of a parent or you think the child is. BUT in saying this if the parent was acting like it was no big deal it would make me mad. But if the parent was doing everything they could to get the child calmed down then I think it was wrong of the airline to do what they did. The child probably would of calmed down once the plane got into flight. The toddler was probably scared and it may of been the child's first flight. We are flying for the first time in Sept, my 3 year old will be with us. I pray he does not freak out because he has never flown, and he got really scared when we tried him on the stars wars ride. We had to have the CM open the doors and let us out before the ride started.

 

[snowbunny]

But if the parent was doing everything they could to get the child calmed down

It wasn't a matter of the child being calm. It was about getting the child into her seat. The parents simply needed to pick up the (screaming) child from the floor, put her in the seat, and buckle her seatbelt, which they refused to do.

 

[disneyfanfamily]

I have not read through ALL of the posts. Here is what I think. I think the airline did what they had to do. Do I feel for the parents? Yes. But, regardless, the child HAD to be buckled in and refused, and the parents could NOT get her to buckle (which I still don't quite understand. However, my children are not as strong willed as some - so no judgement to the parents parenting skills).

Recently my aunt missed her father's funeral because of plane delays. Delays that could not have been helped, but delays anyway. She was obviously very upset for missing the funeral. She would have been IRATE if she missed his funeral because a 3 year old decided to not buckle. So....it is not fair to hold 112 people up (who may have something very important - a wedding, a funeral, etc) for a child who is having a tantrum.

 

[mom2my3kids]

It wasn't a matter of the child being calm. It was about getting the child into her seat. The parents simply needed to pick up the (screaming) child from the floor, put her in the seat, and buckle her seatbelt, which they refused to do.

OK they should of been able to buckle her even if that meant her screaming her head off. I Know there have been times my youngest did not want to go into his carseat. But I got him in screaming his head off..

 

[tjmw2727]

I don't know how I feel about this. As a parent of three children, from time to time my toddler's have had a melt down at some point. I think EVERYONE'S child has no matter how perfect of a parent or you think the child is. BUT in saying this if the parent was acting like it was no big deal it would make me mad. But if the parent was doing everything they could to get the child calmed down then I think it was wrong of the airline to do what they did. The child probably would of calmed down once the plane got into flight. The toddler was probably scared and it may of been the child's first flight. We are flying for the first time in Sept, my 3 year old will be with us. I pray he does not freak out because he has never flown, and he got really scared when we tried him on the stars wars ride. We had to have the CM open the doors and let us out before the ride started.

That is how I felt at first, then I saw the family on GMA and another show and I changed my mind.

This wasn't about the toddler crying it was about the toddler refusing to get into her seat and the parents refusal to make her. The airplane was literally ready to go - everyone else was seated and the FA's were about to begin the safety talk. The plane could not taxi to the runway because the toddler was on the floor in front of the seats kicking and screaming. The parents had already had the amount of time it took to board and an additional 15 (or more) mintues to "calm her". They were given a chioce, pick her up and put her in the seat or leave the aircraft.

If any other passenger for any other reason refused to sit and buckle up they would have also been taken off the aircraft.

GMA did another mini segment this morning and despite their incorrect headline "toddler kicked off plane for crying" the viewer poll shows an overwhelming majority on the side of Airtran.

The family refused the FA's instructions and what did they get, a later flight, a future free flight for 3 and 15 minutes of fame.

TJ

 

[seashoreCM]

Do you think that this famly, and also the family whose son was allegedly punched by Tigger, will get jeers from townsfolk back at home long after their 15 minutes of fame aired on TV?

In either case, handing out compensation could well be overreaction on the part of the company. (copied from another post) Maybe with so much sentiment against the complainer, companies will at least investigate rathter than quickly overreact.

 

[goofy4tink]

I don't know about the rest of you New Englanders but I think we're starting to get a bad rep. and the family with the unseated child is from two towns over from me...I think I may have to move south!!!

The mom was saying on yet another tv show last night that her dd was, in fact, seated. It was because the child was crying that they were asked to leave the plane. I believe that's a change from an earlier story. As long as that child was seated, in her own seat, and buckled in, that plane would have taken off. Pleasant for the rest of the passengers with a child screaming? No, but at least they would have been in the air. I still maintain that the child was not sitting in her seat, buckled in.

I will apologize here, to the rest of the world, for the bad behavior of my fellow northeners. We aren't all like this, believe me!!!

 

[seashoreCM]

Meanwhile if, even due to eavesdropping, an FA determined that the child had some ear problems, the child may have been put off for medical reasons.

I have read stories (rumors only?) about a passenger put off of a plane after another passenger complained about coughing and the FA "determined" that the passenger in question was ill.

>>> dog whining

If airline crew "determined" that a dog was in distress in a cage down in the hold, they would probably hold the plane while they deplaned the dog. They don't want to catch the attention of the ASPCA.

 

[NotUrsula]

I am sure no one on that plane has ever had anything happen where they caused anothers delay. Perhaps a flat tire during rush hour, the wrong documents to get out of the parking lot at MCO, 15 minutes late to a doctors appointment messing up all the appointments after, going in the ten items or less line with 20 items then pay by check etc....

I'm sure that they had. I'm equally sure that none of those delays cost
$100K, which this one would have. When a plane is delayed with the engines running, there are a whole lot of people who are stuck by its side until it can leave, and it is burning jet fuel the entire time. Add in the add'l costs incurred in having to find new seats for passengers who miss connections, and the overtime that will end up being paid when that delay ripples its way to the end of the day. It costs a fortune to delay a plane, and airlines simply will not do it unless there is a really compelling reason.

And the example of the dog? Bad one. NO ONE would have noticed that sound over the engines, and besides, airlines do not take responsibility for anything other than getting the animal to the destination for which shipping was paid, no guarantees as to its condition when it arrives. You ship an animal at your own risk, unless you want to rent a whole cargo plane and send a veterinarian along with it (which is what is done when horses or marine animals are shipped by air.)

 

[bavaria]

I've stayed out of this thread because I was certain that I would get at least one response along the lines of 'you don't have kids, do you?'. No, but that doesn't matter.

As I have said countless times, and as many are sick of hearing, I fly a LOT. Well over 100,000+ miles/year, often more.

I also have been severely claustrophobic ever since I can remember. Occassionally, I still struggle to fly. More than once I have actually approached the FA and asked them to call the GA to see if I could voluntarily remove myself from a flight and what my options were as to later flights, etc. I would never expect anything from the airline, and if they told me that there were no other flights, etc I would have to carefully consider my options.

I have also flown out of necessity when very ill and with broken bones. On several of those occaissions, gate agents and FAs questioned if I was fit to fly. If they had deemed that I was not fit to fly, I would have understood and dealt with the consequences.

This has nothing to do with a child - it is about personal responsibilty.

 

[bavaria]

And if anyone cares, I was flying around the world at the age of two, and believe me, there was no misbehaving allowed. This was back in the days before people took on monstrous carryons containing half their household - we didn't get much to entertain us, but we certainly sat down and behaved.

 

[tjmw2727]

I don't know about the rest of you New Englanders but I think we're starting to get a bad rep. and the family with the unseated child is from two towns over from me...I think I may have to move south!!!

The mom was saying on yet another tv show last night that her dd was, in fact, seated. It was because the child was crying that they were asked to leave the plane. I believe that's a change from an earlier story. As long as that child was seated, in her own seat, and buckled in, that plane would have taken off. Pleasant for the rest of the passengers with a child screaming? No, but at least they would have been in the air. I still maintain that the child was not sitting in her seat, buckled in.

I will apologize here, to the rest of the world, for the bad behavior of my fellow northeners. We aren't all like this, believe me!!!

Wow she is totally backtracking then - if they decide to sue I suppose all the airline has to do is play the video of the first few interviews. The parents clearly said if they had more time they could have "respectfully coaxed her into her seat". They also said she has no behavioural issues and was healthy. In fact ABC had some video of them on the GMA page I wonder if it is still there.

LOL about New Englanders getting a bad rap!! We moved last August from just North of Boston and I still have clients in Winthrop!! I didn't realize the kid from the Tigger incident was from New England as well.

TJ

 

[tinaluis]

I'm a mother of three and have flown many times with our daughters. I haven't read all of the responses but I think the airline was justified in asking the family to leave. The articles I've read on the internet stated that the parents were given 15 mins. to try to calm their child and get her seated. They weren't able to do so and she became combative. I'm sorry, but the rules are the rules. All passengers over the age of 2 must be in their seat, wearing a seatbelt during takeoff. No exceptions.

 

[bavaria]

and if I read correctly, the delay was 15 minutes after the scheduled departure time. This means that the toddler had from the time they boarded until then to get seated. Assuming that they boarded no less than 10 minutes before departure that's 25 minutes. If they preboarded, that's more than 45 minutes.

More than enough time.