To Infinity and Beyond - Becoming a Better DopeyBadger (Comments Welcome)

[DopeyBadger]

It just makes my head hurt

Lots of good info though, you certainly think things through!

LOL! Thanks Mike! Playing with data and Excel is my happy place. I do it all the time at work as well.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Sweet Spot Base - Mid Volume Phase 2 - Week 2 + 80 Day Obsession Week 5 (Start of Phase 2)

1/14/19 - M - OFF
1/15/19 - T - 80DO-D27-Booty + Taylor-2 (60 min; 71 TSS)
1/16/19 - W - 80DO-D28-Cardio Core + Pettit (60 min; 35 TSS)
1/17/19 - R - 80DO-D29-Total Body Core + Donner (60 min; 75 TSS)
1/18/19 - F - 80DO-D30-Legs
1/19/19 - Sa - Clark (90 min; 103 TSS) + 80DO-D31-AAA
1/20/19 - Su - Hunter (120 min; 119 TSS) + 80DO-D32-Cardio Flow

Total Biking Time - 6:30 hours
Total Biking TSS - 407 TSS

Total 80DO Time - 5:00 hours
Total 80DO TSS - 116 TSS

Total Training Time - 11:30 hours (*New PR)
Total TSS - 523 TSS

Monday - Off

Tuesday - The start of 80DO Phase 2. I knew it was probably going to be a little tougher than Phase 1 because Steph's meal plan suggested an additional 100 calories per day. I didn't find Phase 1 to be all that difficult, but would I feel the same way about Phase 2?

Booty! 2x15 going through the whole set and then restarting from the start
Series 1 (Standing) - Squat to Hinge, Curtsy Lunge Lift, Rotating Back Side Lunge
Series 2 (Quad Ped) - Heel Press Up on Angle, Single-Leg Hamstring Curl, Bear Fire Hydrant
Series 3 (Weighted) - KB Swings, Sumo Hinge, Reverse Lunge
Series 4 (Floor Weighted) - Single-Leg Bridge, Press Up and Over, Camels

Did most with 12 or 15 pound weights. Those Bear Fire Hydrants were no joke though. Unlike Phase 1, Phase 2 seems to do more combinatorial movements. Definitely an increase in the difficulty. Doable, but more challenging.

That evening was Taylor-2 for cycling. I personally found this workout a blast. The text during the ride seemed to suggest it was suppose to be really challenging. But I found it to be a nice change of pace compared to trying to hold FTP pace for extended periods of time. It was a 30/30 workout at 120% FTP and rest. 3 total sets of 14 each. I was able to keep my cadence close to 110 during the high and 100s for the rest.

Wednesday - Time for some Cardio Core! It was different than Phase 1. The focus was less jumping jacks and a whole lot of other cardio movements. Can't remove what move it was, but there was something on sliders where you've got to bring your legs up and out. It felt awkward the first time and I wasn't so sure about that type of movement. And against my better judgement I gave it another try. Definitely hurt my hip. Seriously sore. Thankfully by the bike workout, everything was better and by Thursday felt no different than normal.

An easy bike day too.

Thursday - Let's do some Total Body Core!

TBC at 2x15 going through the whole set and then restarting from the start
Series 1 (Shoulder) - Squat/Row/Twist/Row, Kneeling Lunge Clean & Press, Quad Ped Opposite Arm Knee Crunch
Series 2 (Chest) - Chest Press to Half Turkish Get-up, Spider Man Push-ups, Frog Sliders
Series 3 (Back) - "T" to Single-Leg Hip Hinge, Lat Pull Over w/ Leg Raise, Weighted Plank Hip Drop
Series 4 (Biceps) - Low Twisting Lunge Hammer Curl, Press Out to Curl, Weighted Standing Torso Rotation
Series 5 (Triceps) - Crab Position Tricep Dip to Sit Through, Alternating Skull Crusher with Bicycle Legs, French Twist

Yes, those happened... This Phase 2 is no joke.

The evening bicycle workout was similar to the one where I had to drop the %FTP down because there was no way I would survive. Today's was a 3 x 12 min at 95-99% FTP. And today, no adjustment needed. It wasn't easy, but I definitely finished it strong.

Friday - Hooray for Sleep! That evening was Leg Day! Glad to have Leg day on Friday instead of Saturdays now as Phase 2 has switched up the days per week. Doing Leg day right after the 90 min bike workout was always a tough combo.

Legs at 2x15 going through the whole set and then restarting from the start
Series 1 - Reverse Lunges, Reverse Slider Lunges
Series 2 - Weighted Goblet Squat, Modified Pistol on Sliders
Series 3 - Single-arm Weighted Curtsy, Curtsy Sliders
Series 4 - Sumo Squat, Sumo Heel on Sliders
Series 5 - Weighted Warrior 3, Hamstring Curls on Sliders

Nothing sticks out to me.

Saturday - Got about 10.5 hours of sleep with almost 6 hours of deep. I was tired. But I work up feeling refreshed and ready to attack the double. First was the bike!

A 90 min bike workout with 6 x 8 min at varying FTP levels from one interval to the next (90, 92, 94, 92, 90, and 88%). The thing that set this workout apart from past ones was the first 15s of each interval was done at 200% FTP. Yikes! The suggested cadence was in the 60-70s but only if it could be held. Holy cow it was hard. But what made it really hard was going from that 15s interval right into the 9 min interval. It really really challenge me to be able to maintain that high level effort after absolutely blasting my legs. But I survived without making any adjustments.

Then, went upstairs, changed the clothes, grabbed my wife, and we started AAA.

AAA at 2x15 going through the whole set and then restarting from the start
Series 1 - Bilateral Press, Alt Unilateral Press, Lateral Raise, Y, Lat Side Bend, Standing Weight Knee Drive, Loop Standing Donkey, Forearm Plank Jumping Jacks
Series 2 - Chest Press, Fly, Kickback in Plank, Tricep Pushup, Corkscrew, Teaser, 1st Pos. Bridge, Single Leg Bridge w/ Loop
Series 3 - Pullovers, Renegade Row, Curls, Turned Out Curls, Loop Scissor Twist, V Leg Raise, Narrow Bridge Clam, Straight Leg Curls

Holy COW! Well Phase 1 was easy. This was not. Those Tricep Pushups were an absolute beast. Be in plank. Put a 5 pound weight in left hand. Pull left hand with weight off ground. Hold body in plank only on right hand. Now do 15 tricep curls with left hand. Holy moley was that incredibly challenging.

Sunday - Time to do my first TrainerRoad 120 min bike ride. I thought it would be a nice sustained low FTP 120 min ride to get me used to the distance. NOPE! It was a 3 x 20 min at 88, 92, and 89% FTP. A challenging sustained workout. In that last 20 min segment and I had to drop down the FTP just a touch. But with a few minutes left I was able to kick it back up again. It was tough, but I made it through it.

Then, went upstairs, changed the clothes, grabbed my wife, and we started Cardio Flow. Not much has changed in Phase 2. Except instead of 4 reps per move in the progression, it was 6 reps. The last two weeks I had been going faster than the video. Not today. I was gassed from the 120 min bike ride. So I lived with matching the video.

A solid week overall. The most training I've ever done in a week at 11.5 hours. My 5th highest TSS week ever at 523. Fatigue score of 81.3 and it looks like I've got a four other 7 day periods higher:

1) 84 in Dec 2017
2) 82 in Aug 2017
3) 82 in Jul 2018
4) 81.6 in Aug 2017

Next week will probably push that boundary into a new training frontier.

On the ankle front I've been putting in hard work to prepare for running in less than a month. I bumped up my PT from once a day to twice a day. Lastly, I've been wearing an ankle brace the last few weeks. The ankle brace has been helping a ton. My left foot step doesn't feel as "sloppy" as it has in the past few months. It's really restricting, but possibly is what I needed to make that last little push to get a healthy ankle. I used to have issues nearly every day. Now I'm down to only feeling it ever so often, or not at all. So I'm hopeful I'm getting close to feeling normal again.

 

[canglim52]

Nice work Billy! All this strength training is going to pay big dividends imo. I can’t wait to hear about the impacts when you return to running! Glad to hear your ankle is recovering

 

[DopeyBadger]

Nice work Billy! All this strength training is going to pay big dividends imo. I can’t wait to hear about the impacts when you return to running! Glad to hear your ankle is recovering

Thanks Christian! We shall see.

 

[Sleepless Knight]

It was an emotional day. I wasn't at Marathon Weekend for the first time in 5 years. I had 23 runners at the weekend accepting all sorts of challenges with all sorts of goals. Each and every one of them made me truly proud (in addition to all of the runners who weren't being helped by me). Super proud of all the first timers and to those who succeeded despite the weather making the marathon a much harder event. This weekend brought one of my proudest moments yet as a coach. Not long after the 2018 marathon weekend ended, I made a promise to a certain runner who was swept last year when following a different training plan. I promised I'd do what I could to put that person in the position to succeed and finish the marathon like they dreamed of. And they did it! They worked super hard all Fall/Winter and put themselves in a position to succeed. When I saw the results this morning, it brought a smile and tear to my face. On a hotter day and worse environment than 2018, this runner can now proudly call themselves a marathoner. Don't get me wrong, I'm super happy and proud of everyone. But that result holds a special place in my heart. Congrats!

As one of the runners who you helped coach across the finish line, I'm grateful you find our success so rewarding. I used to believe the marathon was impossible for me. I once decided against signing up for a 5K the day before a half solely because I was concerned that the 5K would take too much out of my legs for the half. Now I'm a Dopey marathoner. It never would have happened without you showing me a path to the finish line.

I think I know who you mean, and I’ve thought about her occasionally allyear and was so happy to see she finished today! It’s wonderful. Nice going to both of you.

If it's who I think it is too, her willingness to share her experience about being swept at her first marathon, but still enjoying the experience really helped me make peace with what would happen if I was swept and that helped me realize my reasons for running a marathon.

I used to have issues nearly every day. Now I'm down to only feeling it ever so often, or not at all. So I'm hopeful I'm getting close to feeling normal again.

As I look back a year ago, my knees were constantly hurting. At that time, I feared my knee pain might ruin my hopes of finishing my 5th consecutive Star Wars challenge race weekend, let alone the then very small hopes of maybe, just maybe finishing the marathon. I truly hope that someday you will look back at your challenges as having made achieving your dreams all the sweeter.

 

[DopeyBadger]

As one of the runners who you helped coach across the finish line, I'm grateful you find our success so rewarding. I used to believe the marathon was impossible for me. I once decided against signing up for a 5K the day before a half solely because I was concerned that the 5K would take too much out of my legs for the half. Now I'm a Dopey marathoner. It never would have happened without you showing me a path to the finish line.

I do find it very rewarding. It's truly what I like to do it so much. Because I like seeing everyone succeed. Back in 2015, I crossed the finish line to my first sub-4 after many prior attempts. I knew I had felt something different in that race and at that finish line. I wanted others to feel that too. So I do what I can to help others feel that same level of success, excitement, and goal crushing feeling because I know personally how good it feels.

I truly hope that someday you will look back at your challenges as having made achieving your dreams all the sweeter.

At the end of the day, that's what it is all about. The race is but a small blip on the timeline of making that day happen. It's everything that led to that blip that makes that day feel the way it does. It's why it is known as the victory lap. I will have another victory lap. I will have a victory lap that culminates in achieving my ultimate goals. I will.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Training Load Calculations on Different Training Plans for Different Fitness Profiles: Part 2

So I thought going through some training plans was thought provoking. So I thought, what would happen in some other scenarios.

A 4 hour marathon runner choosing between Hansons Advanced Marathon Plan and Higdon Advanced 2



Both plans are 6 days per week. Higdon does 3x 20 milers. Hansons maxes at 16 miles. Higdon barely ever exceeds 60 min on a weekday. Hansons goes up to 13 miles and 133 min on a weekday. Hansons has a significantly higher training load and more days spent in optimal for the same 4 hour marathon runner, but not surprisingly requires more training during the week.

A 4 hour marathon runner misses the last long run (16 miles/160 min) in Hansons Advanced



The difference is small. They lose about 6 days of optimal training and about 3.4% of training load. But training load and pace are not 1:1. So 3.4% drop in training load is not 3.4% drop in pace. Moral of the story - one missed run will not derail all the hard work. Consistency is king.


A 4 hour marathon runner misses the entire peak week in Hansons Advanced



Even missing the entire peak week does not screw everything up. This runner started at a "Fitness" of 20 and reached a 65.25 come race day even without the entire peak week. Yes, it was lower than best case (12% lower), but even still they are nearly 300% higher in training load than when they started. Moral of the story - Even missing an entire week leading into the race does not mean everything has been derailed.


A 4 hour marathon runner adds long run mileage to Hansons Advanced



This runner says, what do those Hansons know... I'll boost every long run throughout the entire plan. Instead of 8-8-10-8-12-8-14-10-15-10-16-10-16-10-16, they'll do 8-8-10-8-12-8-16-10-17-10-18-10-19-10-20. They boosted 14, 15, 16, 16, 16 to 16, 17, 18, 19, 20. And what did they gain? 1.8% increase in training load and 3 additional optimal days. That's a pretty significant increase in long run mileage and yet the gain was rather tiny. So the moral of the story is, is it worth it? To some, maybe. To others, no.

 

[TheHamm]

It is nice to see in numerical value that consistency is king.
I will consider that as I do not want to go outside for the next month.

 

[DopeyBadger]

It is nice to see in numerical value that consistency is king.
I will consider that as I do not want to go outside for the next month.

Absolutely. The system isn't perfect, but it does go to show how much any one given run matters. By the data, one day is only worth about 2% of the total "Fitness" gained. Consider dropping it altogether and it makes little difference. Drop a run every week, and it starts to show up. Drop back on the pace a touch on a day because of sickness or the like, and the difference is extremely insignificant. It's the totality of the cumulative training that matters. No one single run is king. Consistency is king.

 

[GollyGadget]

Great analysis Billy! I enjoyed reading it. Usually your posts are a little too mathy for me, but these weren't so bad.

Have you done any comparison between Hanson Beginner vs Advanced? I'm following the beginner plan again but now I'm wondering, should I be following advanced? It's too late in the game for me to switch now, but might be something I should look at next time around. Admittedly, I never even considered the Advanced plan because it sounded too intense but now that I briefly looked at it, it appears to just be a few extra easy miles so maybe it isn't that far out of reach.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Great analysis Billy! I enjoyed reading it. Usually your posts are a little too mathy for me, but these weren't so bad.

#Math #Truth

I get it. Whether it's this journal or in a room full of 50+ year veteran scientists with PhDs, I get the same look. Calm down on the math. Try and explain it to me like I have no idea what you're talking about, because I don't. It's the criticism I receive the most often after my presentations.

Have you done any comparison between Hanson Beginner vs Advanced? I'm following the beginner plan again but now I'm wondering, should I be following advanced? It's too late in the game for me to switch now, but might be something I should look at next time around. Admittedly, I never even considered the Advanced plan because it sounded too intense but now that I briefly looked at it, it appears to just be a few extra easy miles so maybe it isn't that far out of reach.

I have not, but it shouldn't be too hard for me to make a few edits. I'll have to find an online copy of the Beginning because I only have the mileage written in my Excel file. So it'll take a moment. Assuming a 4 hour marathon runner as well, since we've seen that without edits the Advanced is too aggressive for a 5 hour runner? Or maybe Beginning wouldn't be too aggressive for a 5 hour runner?

 

[garneska]

I am with golly gadget, but you are making me feel better with that last post. I have my 50k in 3 weeks and i am down this week with bronchitis. i have not run since friday. Am definitely thinking the last long run for the training will have been the marathon. I thought my body needs a little break after the 50k, guess it could not wait that long. As long as i finish it's a PR so no reason to run and make it worse. i am not seeing my last 3 hour trail run happen this weekend. i am hoping by then i can go out for an hour. I think I will be off tomorrow and then thrusday will see.

i am looking forward to getting a plan, once i finish this 50k and see what i want to accomplish in 2019. I have my name in the lottery for NYC, so after Feb, I will be able to put some solid plans out there. I will say I am thinking 10ks and work on speed for 2019.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Have you done any comparison between Hanson Beginner vs Advanced?

Here is a 4 hour M runner with the same fitness entering both Beginning and Advanced:



But here is the same scenario with the Beginner runner doing nothing the 6 weeks prior to the plan starting (leads to 6 days of barely overtraining, not surprisingly where the plan jumps from 10 to 15 miles as LR):



It would appear optimally, the 4 hour runner entering the Beginner plan be around a "Fitness" of 17 entering the plan:



To accomplish this, as a runner entering the plan with no other training the prior 6 weeks entering, just do the first 5 weeks twice.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I thought my body needs a little break after the 50k, guess it could not wait that long.

Depends on what a little break is. Because even the training load calculations will show that you need down periods in training cycles. If you try to continuously maintain a high level of training without ever coming down, then you're undoubtedly going to end up in a "neutral" training area. And that's just training load calcs, but there's good reason to believe physiologically speaking that taking some time off or focusing elsewhere for a few weeks can be a good thing. Just a matter of how much time you give yourself to ramp up into the next training cycle. See the below for an example:



This is my training load data from Dec 2016 through present.

-I made some of my biggest running improvements in PRs from Feb to Apr 2017 (lots of optimal time) and Nov 2017 to Jan 2018 (less optimal but still hovering).
-I felt really stale in Summer 2017 (lots of neutral training, although lots of racing so I was in the right area). I arguably didn't let up enough leading into Fall 2017 training because I felt stale on race day.
-I ended up injured after Dec 2017 training (lots of neutral training in the tail end of that cycle).
-Made good improvements with cycle+strength+run during Spring 2018. Running improved quickly upon returning.
-Arguably hit a new peak in running performance in mid-July. Then the ankle injury stalemated the training.
-New cycling+strength training has been really focused on the optimal zone. Next to Daniels Spring 2017 training it has been the most time spent in optimal.
-However, eventually the training load will have to stall or come down because I can't keep increasing the training load forever to continue to stay in optimal.

So the moral of the example is to say, sometimes having a break after a big race is a good thing. It allows you to refocus mentally. Although a break of no running longer than 4-6 weeks and you start to lose many of the gains from the last several months. Take off 7-8 weeks and you're roughly back where you started.



Race Day is at Week 10 and then absolutely no training afterwards.

i am looking forward to getting a plan, once i finish this 50k and see what i want to accomplish in 2019. I have my name in the lottery for NYC, so after Feb, I will be able to put some solid plans out there. I will say I am thinking 10ks and work on speed for 2019.

Sounds like a plan.

 

[TheHamm]

#Math #Truth

I get it. Whether it's this journal or in a room full of 50+ year veteran scientists with PhDs, I get the same look. Calm down on the math. Try and explain it to me like I have no idea what you're talking about, because I don't. It's the criticism I receive the most often after my presentations.

It sounds like you need to hide the math in pretty plots and cartooned diagrams. Working with people with limited backgrounds in my technical field and zero English skill has improved my technical conference talks and my pictionary skills!

 

[garneska]

My idea of a little break was to throw in some road cycling. It still is. Again i want to see what happens in Feb, but i think one of goals will a century ride. Basically that will mean my summer long weekend would be a bike day. If i get into NYC, then i can focus back to running a marathon for Nov. Right now the 100 miler i am looking at on the bike is Sep 8. I would probably plan a 60 mile bike race (ride) at end of July. Again already checked that one out. I will have some good stuff for you once I see what happens with NYC. I will be honest I won't be terribly disappointed if i don't get in this year. If that happens am thinking my next marathon will be Boston 2020, but then i would throw in a half or two. Plus that gives me a chance to work some speed on the 10ks in 2019. i have lots of things running through my mind .

 

[DopeyBadger]

It sounds like you need to hide the math in pretty plots and cartooned diagrams. Working with people with limited backgrounds in my technical field and zero English skill has improved my technical conference talks and my pictionary skills!

Yea, I need to work on that too. I've been told it "made their eyes bleed" looking at my graphs/plots... Although, it's something I'm constantly striving to improve.

My idea of a little break was to throw in some road cycling. It still is. Again i want to see what happens in Feb, but i think one of goals will a century ride. Basically that will mean my summer long weekend would be a bike day. If i get into NYC, then i can focus back to running a marathon for Nov. Right now the 100 miler i am looking at on the bike is Sep 8. I would probably plan a 60 mile bike race (ride) at end of July. Again already checked that one out. I will have some good stuff for you once I see what happens with NYC. I will be honest I won't be terribly disappointed if i don't get in this year. If that happens am thinking my next marathon will be Boston 2020, but then i would throw in a half or two. Plus that gives me a chance to work some speed on the 10ks in 2019. i have lots of things running through my mind .

Sounds like a plan. That would be a running break but not an aerobic break. He doesn't share the data of necessarily how he came to the conclusion, but Daniels book provides some insight.



A loss of 0.15% of VO2max running capacity per day off from running (after 5 days), but replaced by equal cycling. So this would suggest a 2:1 type situation. Normally, I'd say equal time off to equal time return. Take off 10 days and it takes 10 days to get back to roughly where you were. Take off 70 days and it takes 70 days. But this graph would suggest that with equal cycling, it would take 1/2 the time off to make a running return to where you were. So take off 70 days of running and replace with equal cycling, and it would take 35 days to return to form. He suggests that anything at 10 weeks or longer is null and you're essentially back to your baseline VO2max.

I'll be interested to see what happens personally as I will have taken about 20 weeks off from running, but will have been seriously cycling+strength training for 12 of those weeks. My first race will occur at 14 weeks post returning to run, or 26 weeks of serious training. Although by the time that race occurs, my training load is projected to be 26% higher than I have ever been ("Fitness" of 86 vs 68).

 

[GollyGadget]

Here is a 4 hour M runner with the same fitness entering both Beginning and Advanced:

View attachment 377531

But here is the same scenario with the Beginner runner doing nothing the 6 weeks prior to the plan starting (leads to 6 days of barely overtraining, not surprisingly where the plan jumps from 10 to 15 miles as LR):

View attachment 377532

It would appear optimally, the 4 hour runner entering the Beginner plan be around a "Fitness" of 17 entering the plan:

View attachment 377533

To accomplish this, as a runner entering the plan with no other training the prior 6 weeks entering, just do the first 5 weeks twice.

View attachment 377534

Thanks! I was in fact wondering about the 4 hr marathon runner since that's approximately where I'm at. I find it very interesting that the overtraining only occurs in the beginner plan. Seems like it should be the opposite, with the advanced leading to overtraining.

My long run jumps up to 15 miles this week so I guess we'll see how that goes!

 

[dis_or_dat]

#Math #Truth

I get it. Whether it's this journal or in a room full of 50+ year veteran scientists with PhDs, I get the same look. Calm down on the math. Try and explain it to me like I have no idea what you're talking about, because I don't. It's the criticism I receive the most often after my presentations.

I think sometimes it’s just the way people’s brains are wired. Despite my profession, I’m much more slanted toward the humanities. I easily aced a post grad course that everyone else struggled in because my professor described the science in almost a storybook fashion. Then during training, I actually wore a calculator around my neck (along with many others!) to help complete simple math that we had to do constantly that was a lifesaver - literally!

 

[DopeyBadger]

I think sometimes it’s just the way people’s brains are wired. Despite my profession, I’m much more slanted toward the humanities. I easily aced a post grad course that everyone else struggled in because my professor described the science in almost a storybook fashion. Then during training, I actually wore a calculator around my neck (along with many others!) to help complete simple math that we had to do constantly that was a lifesaver - literally!

Sounds like a great explanation to me!