To Infinity and Beyond - Becoming a Better DopeyBadger (Comments Welcome)

[roxymama]

Actually maybe don't make a costume. By the time you finish putting it together, they will call and reschedule your MRI. #nojinx

 

[DopeyBadger]

So my easy runs haven't been as easy as they should. I've tried to run my EA (9:10) and EB (8:32) paces this week and they've seemed more difficult than they should. Especially on Thursday when I tried to do 6 miles at EB (8:32) (Actually had an occurrence of Jelly Legs, like really...). So I decided on Friday and Saturday to switch to a pure effort based system. Just run whatever feels comfortable. That came out to a 9:45 and 9:28 the last two days. This reminded me that I've lost fitness during my two weeks off and my last actual training run was over 21 days ago. Based on some research, I've lost about 6% fitness from the two weeks off. Thus, while I inputted training paces in the beginning that I thought I was capable of, I forgot to account for the loss in fitness. Thus,



The paces kind of make sense in relation to what I've done over the last week...

Sunday - 3 @ 9:35
Monday - 3 @ 9:47
Tuesday - 4 @ 9:11
Thursday - 6 @ 8:48 (too much)
Friday - 6 @ 9:45
Saturday - 6 @ 9:28

So, it begs the question what I should do tomorrow. Originally it was 8 miles @ 8:13, but there is no way I am ready for that yet. So, I'm thinking to adjust to 6 miles @ easy (whatever that may be) to continue to try and recover slowly and smartly. I'll continue running by effort at what feels easy and then reassess my Tempo next week Thursday as to whether it is a good idea to even try it yet.

Secondly, I think I have a prediction on my injury. It's a bone spur. I think it's a bone spur because of the following.

A bone spur occurs when your body suffers a small bone injury/stress and then inappropriately/aggressively attempts to repair it. So I potentially suffered an injury during my last training cycle. Then I started my taper and my body went into recovery mode. So the body attempted to repair the bone injury and did so inappropriately and formed a bone spur. The bone spur didn't get formed until almost marathon day and thus I never noticed it. Then came marathon day. As the marathon progressed, my muscles became inflamed and filled the space between my muscles, blood vessels and bone spur. This caused the bone spur to put pressure on my muscle and blood vessels which elicited the pain. What I believe to be a bone spur is a small distortion in the bone based on rubbing my leg versus rubbling my other leg. It feels like a hard perturbing bone.



It's located about where it says "muscle" on the right side of the picture. About halfway up my calf. It feels like it's on the back side of the bone (or at the 3:00/4:00 o'clock position of the leg). It is potentially impacting the perforating vein.

So, it's possible I haven't felt the pain yet while running (although I felt it for 10-15 sec on Thursday, and have "noticed it" during running but without pain) because I haven't yet run far enough to cause the necessary swelling of the muscle to induce the loss of space. If it is in fact a bone spur, then it's likely something that can be removed with surgery. Although I am by no means an expert and it's proximity to the perforating vein may be an issue for removal.

The two things it doesn't answer is: 1) bone spurs aren't common as high up on the shin as mine apparently has and 2) why couldn't they diagnose it solely with the x-ray? Bone spurs typically occur in joints, shoulders, feet, in areas of stress. Maybe I caused stress on my shin bone from all my running (guess?). A bone spur is diagnosable with an x-ray. It sometimes needs a MRI, but more often not. And it doesn't usually appear cloudy. The cloudiness could be because the bone spur was still in development (guess?). I guess time will tell.

So, that's my unofficial and unqualified guess as to what has occurred to my leg. Now it will be interesting to see what the official diagnosis is.

 

[dis_or_dat]

Good luck on the MRI!

 

[DopeyBadger]

Good luck on the MRI!

Thanks! I wish... Unfortunately it was rescheduled for next Monday (10/31) because they scheduled me for the wrong machine. They had me down for a MRA (which can see blood vessels), whereas they should have scheduled me for a MRI (which can see blood vessels, bone, and soft tissue). Accidental clerical error, oh well. So have to wait another week.

 

[dis_or_dat]

That sucks. Maybe it's a good thing that they didn't feel the need to schedule an emergent MRI.

 

[DopeyBadger]

That sucks. Maybe it's a good thing that they didn't feel the need to schedule an emergent MRI.

We can hope. Because making me wait 25 days after dropping that bombshell on me has been a little nerve racking to say the least...

 

[roxymama]

That sucks. Maybe it's a good thing that they didn't feel the need to schedule an emergent MRI.

Yes, take some comfort (as much as you can) from that. When my hubby's Dr. saw something out of the ordinary on his x-ray they had him getting the MRI within 3 hours. That was the first sign it wasn't going to be good. So the fact they aren't rushing you could mean it isn't so dire. I will continue to throw happy positive vibes all over the universe for you.

 

[DopeyBadger]

72 Days to Go (I don't believe that man's ever been to medical school.)



Date - Day - Scheduled Workout (Intervals within desired pace, Strength +/- 5 sec, everything else +/- 10 sec)

10/19/16 - W - Medicine Ball Workout (MBW)
10/20/16 - R - 6 miles @ 8:32 or slower min/mile (6/6)
10/21/16 - F - 6 miles @ 8:32 or slower min/mile (6/6)
10/22/16 - Sat - 6 miles @ 8:32 or slower min/mile (6/6) + MBW
10/23/16 - Sun - 8 miles @ 8:13 min/mile *Decided to do 6 miles @ 8:32 or slower min/mile instead (6/6)
10/24/16 - M - 6 miles @ 8:32 or slower min/mile (6/6)
10/25/16 - T - 6 miles @ 8:32 or slower min/mile (6/6)

Total mileage = 36 miles
Number of intervals within pace = 36/36 (100%)

Well Thursday was my first run at 6 miles and first attempt at EB pace (8:32 min/mile). Up to this point I had run 3 days the cycle prior (Sunday, Monday, Tuesday) without issue/no pain in my left leg. I was hopeful this would continue with a tad faster pace. Around mile 3.5-4 it started to change. I started having the sensation of "Jelly Legs". Honestly it makes no sense. This is an easy pace. This is only a few miles into the run. There should be no reason my leg is "overly fatigued". It's a definite puzzler. Then around mile 4.5-5 was a brief sensation directly in my left leg area of interest. No no no... Everything was going fine. Now what's happening? Thankfully, it only lasted 10-20 seconds and it wasn't end your run painful. But it was definitely noticeable. After it went away I decided to finish out the run and re-evaluate afterwards. Still not recovering as well as I would hope.

I backed off on Friday and Saturday with the hopes that maybe I could account for a loss in fitness. Maybe while the paces are "easy", maybe they're too aggressive for where I'm at physically. I tried to slow down to make sure I didn't get pain again, and so that the muscle fatigue felt more "normal". I decided on Saturday that maybe my quads and connective tissue in my right legs are weak (Jelly Legs). So I added a few new routines to the MBW with the hope that I'll build some additional strength. Nothing major, just a few additional items.

The big decision on Sunday was whether to do the 8 miles @ 8:13 or 6 miles @ easy. Based on how Thursday went, I wasn't ready to push it. So I went with 6 miles @ easy. The paces were in and around EB/EA and felt comfortable. The confidence was high after this run. All I needed was to have a few extra super easy days.

And then Monday... I got a new pair of daily wear shoes. I could tell my new daily shoes were near the end of their life and thus it was time for a replacement. New balance with memory foam cushion. I was on the way to the car and "BAM"! Jelly legs.... while walking.... HUH? My right leg just started pulling on me. It just made no sense at all. It felt uncomfortable walking to the car, driving in the car, prepping for the run, and during most of the run. I tried to back WAY off on the pacing. Everything seemed fine post-run. I was hopeful it was just a brief moment, but who knows??? I've never been to medical school... I'm hoping it's just an adjustment to the new shoes.

Tuesday's goal was another easy day. Just nice easy comfortable running. Still not necessarily where I want to be. But no pain, no jelly legs, no twinges, I'll chalk this day up as a victory.

Thankfully, this makes 9 runs and only one with a very brief moment of pain. That's a great sign. But the jelly legs and elongated recovery is becoming a reoccurring problem.

The question is: Does training start on Thursday? Do I do 7 miles of Tempo? Am I ready for that type of pacing (or effort)? Will my body hold up? I just don't know yet if I'm ready. I might give it a go, and if not shut it down and make it an easy day. Again the goal is to just be able to run Dopey. The pace at the end of the day is irrelevant to me. Yea sure I'd love to race it. But just running it at all would be just fine with me.

 

[dis_or_dat]

Hmmm, I wonder if part of it is due to some loss of fitness and another component is perhaps a bit psychological? I know that I had convinced myself I had broken a bone in my foot and visibly limped all week, but when I realized I was ok, the pain miraculously disappeared. Maybe you can do crosstraining to maintain fitness but decrease impact to your legs such as elliptical, cycling, etc. Maybe once your MRI gives you the all clear (hopefully!) you'll immediately find the jelly legs and pain disappears! I'm not sure what to say about your upcoming tempo run (you're the one with all the great suggestions), but I can see it going either way. If it's fitness and you can't maintain EB, then perhaps crosstraining. If it's the other, maybe you need to see that you can do something tougher to get over the hump (as it were). Maybe try tempo for 0.5 mile and if all goes well try to get to 1 ... and if that's ok try for 1.5 etc. But if your body says no, then stop. Maybe you need to stretch a bit longer after your runs (even foam roll?) since you're easing into training.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Hmmm, I wonder if part of it is due to some loss of fitness and another component is perhaps a bit psychological? I know that I had convinced myself I had broken a bone in my foot and visibly limped all week, but when I realized I was ok, the pain miraculously disappeared. Maybe you can do crosstraining to maintain fitness but decrease impact to your legs such as elliptical, cycling, etc. Maybe once your MRI gives you the all clear (hopefully!) you'll immediately find the jelly legs and pain disappears! I'm not sure what to say about your upcoming tempo run (you're the one with all the great suggestions), but I can see it going either way. If it's fitness and you can't maintain EB, then perhaps crosstraining. If it's the other, maybe you need to see that you can do something tougher to get over the hump (as it were). Maybe try tempo for 0.5 mile and if all goes well try to get to 1 ... and if that's ok try for 1.5 etc. But if your body says no, then stop. Maybe you need to stretch a bit longer after your runs (even foam roll?) since you're easing into training.

I agree and we shall see. I'll likely blind run the tempo and if no pain/jelly just keep running it. I don't really care what the time is at this point. It's entirely possible that I am just super tight from the time off and may need some additional stretching pre/post run to try and loosen up.

 

[canglim52]

I agree and we shall see. I'll likely blind run the tempo and if no pain/jelly just keep running it. I don't really care what the time is at this point. It's entirely possible that I am just super tight from the time off and may need some additional stretching pre/post run to try and loosen up.

What exactly are jelly legs again? Is it anything like when your legs get really heavy and it feels like you can't move them? Do you think giving yourself 1 full day off from all training per week would help?

 

[DopeyBadger]

What exactly are jelly legs again? Is it anything like when your legs get really heavy and it feels like you can't move them? Do you think giving yourself 1 full day off from all training per week would help?

Jelly legs are my description for a feeling I have in my legs of "forgetting how to run". I want to run. I feel like I could keep running. But for some reason my legs (and particularly my right leg) just goes all wacky and starts "pulling" on me. On a few occassions my right foot has just flat out almost not hit the ground. The leg pulls so hard it just pulls it up and almost causes me to stumble. It's a feeling prior to this last training cycle that only happened very late in a tempo run or marathon. But this pay cycle had it occur in all types of paces runs. I hypothesized it was an overly fatigued muscle. But recently it happened when just walking to the car. So now I'm thinking its got to be something going on with my right hamstring to knee connection. My right hip has always been weak and I've since worked on that hard with stretches and strength work the last 6 months. Maybe this increased right hip strength has made my right hamstring the new weak link in running and it now requires some attention. The sensation is beatable in a race by either slowing down or speeding up because I've successfully applied both strategies.

Taking a full day off (Wednesday) isn't a bad idea. It would cut me back to one medicine ball workout per week (Sat). It begs the question though. Do I need more resting to alleviate the issues? Do I need new stretches and strength to alleviate the issues? Do I need to just try to run faster to see if it is just being stale after 35 days since my last hard training workout (marathon not included, but obviously very hard)? They're all things I'm willing to try in the next few weeks to break out of the rut.

 

[canglim52]

Jelly legs are my description for a feeling I have in my legs of "forgetting how to run". I want to run. I feel like I could keep running. But for some reason my legs (and particularly my right leg) just goes all wacky and starts "pulling" on me. On a few occassions my right foot has just flat out almost not hit the ground. The leg pulls so hard it just pulls it up and almost causes me to stumble. It's a feeling prior to this last training cycle that only happened very late in a tempo run or marathon. But this pay cycle had it occur in all types of paces runs. I hypothesized it was an overly fatigued muscle. But recently it happened when just walking to the car. So now I'm thinking its got to be something going on with my right hamstring to knee connection. My right hip has always been weak and I've since worked on that hard with stretches and strength work the last 6 months. Maybe this increased right hip strength has made my right hamstring the new weak link in running and it now requires some attention. The sensation is beatable in a race by either slowing down or speeding up because I've successfully applied both strategies.

Taking a full day off (Wednesday) isn't a bad idea. It would cut me back to one medicine ball workout per week (Sat). It begs the question though. Do I need more resting to alleviate the issues? Do I need new stretches and strength to alleviate the issues? Do I need to just try to run faster to see if it is just being stale after 35 days since my last hard training workout (marathon not included, but obviously very hard)? They're all things I'm willing to try in the next few weeks to break out of the rut.

I get something really similar to jelly legs, but mine is 100% my hips. I call mine concrete legs lol. I tend to get it on longer runs, when switch speeds from faster to slower, and on recovery runs as I adjust to higher mileage.

In my expierance rest always helps. I like to take one full day off per week, so my body can fully heal. I've read. rest makes you stronger, the excercise just forces adaptation. I will say walking, stretching, foam rolling every day make a huge difference in keeping my concrete legs away. The less recovery work I do the more likely my hips flare up in my runs.

Lastly, I tend to supinate a tad especially on my left side. For me that causes excessive hip fatigue and very slight shin splint. When I focus on landing a tad bit more nuetral my hips clear up. I'm wondering if both jelly legs and concrete legs are related to hip fatigue/hip instability and/or tight feet/hamstrings? My adjustment in foot strike and your change in stride may temporarily recruite new muscles fixing the hip instability for a stretch. If so maybe it's a tight hamstring? Again, not sure if these are similar issues but I figured I would share just in case. Thoughts?

 

[DopeyBadger]

I get something really similar to jelly legs, but mine is 100% my hips. I call mine concrete legs lol. I tend to get it on longer runs, when switch speeds from faster to slower, and on recovery runs as I adjust to higher mileage.

In my expierance rest always helps. I like to take one full day off per week, so my body can fully heal. I've read. rest makes you stronger, the excercise just forces adaptation. I will say walking, stretching, foam rolling every day make a huge difference in keeping my concrete legs away. The less recovery work I do the more likely my hips flare up in my runs.

Lastly, I tend to supinate a tad especially on my left side. For me that causes excessive hip fatigue and very slight shin splint. When I focus on landing a tad bit more nuetral my hips clear up. I'm wondering if both jelly legs and concrete legs are related to hip fatigue/hip instability and/or tight feet/hamstrings? My adjustment in foot strike and your change in stride may temporarily recruite new muscles fixing the hip instability for a stretch. If so maybe it's a tight hamstring? Again, not sure if these are similar issues but I figured I would share just in case. Thoughts?

LOL! Only in runner's minds could one describe something as "jelly" and another "concrete" and yet be the same thing. But it sounds similar.

I wouldn't be surprised if mine wasn't hip related as well. I believe my left leg lands normally, whereas the right leg seems to swing out and then land occasionally. This has always been a sign that my something was weak in my right hip. Sometimes it swings out and sometimes my right heel will click my left ball of the ankle. Not every time, just every once in a while. It used to be much worse and cause my left ankle to bleed from all of the heel clicks.

http://www.kinetic-revolution.com/qa-why-does-my-leg-flick-out-when-i-run/

This article I just found actually describes it well: http://www.runnersworld.com/ask-the-doctor/ask-the-doctor-i-lose-control-of-my-leg-when-running

I think I'm going to try and focus even more on my form and see if I can't get my leg to stop swinging and to land more straight in line with my body.

 

[canglim52]

LOL! Only in runner's minds could one describe something as "jelly" and another "concrete" and yet be the same thing. But it sounds similar.

I wouldn't be surprised if mine wasn't hip related as well. I believe my left leg lands normally, whereas the right leg seems to swing out and then land occasionally. This has always been a sign that my something was weak in my right hip. Sometimes it swings out and sometimes my right heel will click my left ball of the ankle. Not every time, just every once in a while. It used to be much worse and cause my left ankle to bleed from all of the heel clicks.

http://www.kinetic-revolution.com/qa-why-does-my-leg-flick-out-when-i-run/

This article I just found actually describes it well: http://www.runnersworld.com/ask-the-doctor/ask-the-doctor-i-lose-control-of-my-leg-when-running

I think I'm going to try and focus even more on my form and see if I can't get my leg to stop swinging and to land more straight in line with my body.

HAHA too funny! I used to catch my ankle all the time too, but lately it has stopped. Do you wear out the outside edges of your shoes too? I think it's a great idea to work on your form. One thing that helps me a lot is focusing on relaxing my muscles. Sometimes I carry so much tension things just start getting sore. Maybe working out your hips on your off day is over taxes the system too much, and then when you run you're more prone to get Jelly Legs. If you move your hip day to a day you run, and then take a full rest day you'll probably help reduce the frequency. Also, not sure what hip stretches you do but I love Sun Salutation. It's a great way to loosen up my hips and hamstrings, and you can make it more dynamic by only holding the pose as long as your breath.

 

[DopeyBadger]

HAHA too funny! I used to catch my ankle all the time too, but lately it has stopped. Do you wear out the outside edges of your shoes too? I think it's a great idea to work on your form. One thing that helps me a lot is focusing on relaxing my muscles. Sometimes I carry so much tension things just start getting sore. Maybe working out your hips on your off day is over taxes the system too much, and then when you run you're more prone to get Jelly Legs. If you move your hip day to a day you run, and then take a full rest day you'll probably help reduce the frequency. Also, not sure what hip stretches you do but I love Sun Salutation. It's a great way to loosen up my hips and hamstrings, and you can make it more dynamic by only holding the pose as long as your breath.

Outside edges, but on the inside of the shoes if that makes sense (because the inside of the outside of the shoes hit each other). It's possible I've just become too lax on focusing on my form and really need to hone in on it again.

I'll consider dropping the second MBW on Wednesday to make it a full recovery day, but I'm not sure I want to do that just yet. I'm not sure given the current running schedule there is a different day to move it to, so it might need to be dropped completely.

That seems like quite the sequence of poses.

Thanks for the tip!

 

[DopeyBadger]

This was it. The beginning of the Dopey training cycle. Recovery is over and done with and it's time to find out what I've got. Because the last two weeks (9 runs) of recovery haven't gone as well as I'd hoped, I decided to run the 7 miles @ marathon tempo (11 total) as a blind run. This way my only judge of whether to continue or not was whether I had pain or too much jelly legs (hamstring/quad weakness). This way if my pace struggled I could ignore it and just embrace the run. If I lost fitness, then so be it. So...

Mile - Goal Pace - Actual Pace
1 - 9:11 - 9:10
2 - 9:11 - 8:29
3 - 7:33 - 7:47
4 - 7:33 - 7:46
5 - 7:33 - 7:28
6 - 7:33 - 7:25
7 - 7:33 - 7:29
8 - 7:33 - 7:27
9 - 7:33 - 7:32
10 - 9:11 - 8:45
11 - 9:11 - 9:01

Well, well, well... I'd say that was a success. Maybe I just needed to get out of my own head and "just run". Turn up the tunes and just zone out. A total of 6/7 intervals within pace. I'm shocked. I'm surprised. I'm so happy. I did have some jelly legs (hamstring/quad weakness), but I've got a tentative gameplay to try and remedy that. But what matters the most, more than the pace, more than doing 11 miles, more than jelly or not jelly.... NO PAIN! NONE! NADA! ZIP! ZILCH! SO SO SO Happy about that. Not even a hint! I'm hopeful this can hold up, but it's a good sign that even if I have to back off for the next 11 weeks I can likely still complete Dopey.

Oh and then there is this...



2016 Year Goal has been met! I entered 2016 hoping to run 2,016 miles. Woot Woot! Now 65 days left in the year to push that year total out to new territory!

 

[cburnett11]

Well, well, well... I'd say that was a success.

Very happy to read this update!!!!!!

2016 Year Goal has been met!

Congrats... I'm nowhere near that number.

 

[dis_or_dat]

Great job! Was anxiously awaiting your strava update and saw your tempo run and I was expecting a write up here! So happy you got over "the hump," mental hurdles can be just as difficult as the physical ones.

Now it's time to get your run on!

 

[DopeyBadger]

Very happy to read this update!!!!!!




Congrats... I'm nowhere near that number.

Thanks! I was very happy to write it!

Great job! Was anxiously awaiting your strava update and saw your tempo run and I was expecting a write up here! So happy you got over "the hump," mental hurdles can be just as difficult as the physical ones.

Now it's time to get your run on!

Thanks and agreed!

A little more sore this morning than normal, so I'm going to back off on the next few runs to see how recovery goes.