To go with the Peanut Butter thread: Do you think that PBJs should be banned...

[cinderella73]

There is a lot of talk about epipens in discussions about allergies, and truly they are the lifeline to children (and adults) with severe and life-threatening allergies. I think it needs to be put in perspective, though, that it's ok for them to be around their allergens because they have their epipens as a backup. If you've ever witnessed a child being administered an epipen in a state of emergency, you might understand. It's not like giving them an inhaler or Benydryl and then they would be ok. Some situations might be easier than others, but there can be serious consequences to using the epipen. The adrenaline in itself have a potentially life-threatening reaction. Therefore the need for 911 backup when it is used. It is a horrible experience for anyone, both physically and emotionally. Not to mention the costs that are involved are astronomical...the epipens in themselves are not always covered by insurance and the ambulance ride/emergency room and follow up visits can easily add up to a very high cost easily.
Just food for thought....thanks for reading, and having compassion for anyone who suffers with the thought that this could happen to them at any time.

Thank you for making that clear. I am sure it is one of the reasons most people think that a reaction is ok . That if you have a epi no big deal. Sometimes a epi is not enough . And even using one is dangerous. They only work for roughly 20 minutes max and sometimes less. And always require a ambulance and emergency medical care.

CHOBIE Very well said!

THE DISNEYBUNCH
It gets hard to listen to people saying that kids need to be prepared for the " real world" . In the real world there is a lot of bad things but we " protect" our kids from it. Not expose them to it to teach them how the " real world " works. They do that as they get older just by growing up . Maybe when they dont do homework or something we let them take the responsibility. But teach them by exposing them to life threating allergens? Can you imagine a mom saying to her kid "Well Bobby that reaction you had . Did that teach you to be more careful? " If the kid is even around to learn anything after that!
You also have to understand that banning products does not mean that children are not being taught by their parents how to cope and be cautious with their allergy. We still have to always stay on the ball. Even when shopping for apples in a grocery store. Nothing is EVER taken for granted. Kids get used to this early on. Just because we keep dangerous foods away from them at school does not mean they dont deal with it in other ways. A mom should not have to worry when she is at work that she will get a call her child had a reaction at school and is in the hospital or worse. Its not right. A school is supposed to be a safe place.
In the real world there are guns and violence. Does that mean she shouldnt have metal detectors? Should kids just learn how to deal with it on their own?

ALLABOUTMM You do such a great job keeping a eye out for things. Some people think if its not nuts then its safe. Its great that you check for the " made in the same facility as" warnings. Most people dont even realize how important that is.

Please everyone keep in mind that when everytime you put food into your mouth you have to worry it can kill you life is a struggle. Shopping , eating out , vacations, family and friends houses , birthday parties, sleepovers, etc. , none of them are the same to us as they are to you. Please show a little more compassion. Eat you Peanuts all you want . But please make sure you remove the residue from your hands before you go out . It can save a childs life. And please be aware of these allergens in public places. These kids thank you. I know the parents would hug you! You might never know it but washing your Pb or nut residue from your hands before pushing a shopping cart at a store or not letting your kid eat it while in a shopping cart may have saved a childs life that day. Every little effort counts. Never doubt that. Thank you.



To everyone else below . Thank you so much ! To see compassion from those of you that dont even have the issue is amazing and heartwarming. You have the ability to see how tough life is for these kids and families. And I thank you for that.

For those of us that do have the issue let me say that eventually things will get better. In part unfortunatly because it is becomming more common . Talking on here helps other's who might not understand , understand better. Its nice to know that so many people are curious to understand and want to help.

 

[antree]

My DS 5 starts school this year and has a peanut/tree nut allergy. I am worrying everyday about sending him. I think schools should start off baning any food taken in to class rooms and cooking in the class room. There are too many allergies out there so no one should be aloud to take food in too the class room, not for parties or snacks anything. Give us one less thing to worry about. Kids don't need to eat during class. As far as the lunch room I am still trying to figure that one out.

I would never put any child in danger, so if we had to remove something to kid a child safe I would never have a problem with that, no matter how inconvenient it would be for me. I hope that my child will get the same
treatment.

Thank you to everyone who understands how serious this allergy is.

 

[Schmeck]

My DS 5 starts school this year and has a peanut/tree nut allergy. I am worrying everyday about sending him. I think schools should start off baning any food taken in to class rooms and cooking in the class room. There are too many allergies out there so no one should be aloud to take food in too the class room, not for parties or snacks anything. Give us one less thing to worry about. Kids don't need to eat during class. As far as the lunch room I am still trying to figure that one out.

I would never put any child in danger, so if we had to remove something to kid a child safe I would never have a problem with that, no matter how inconvenient it would be for me. I hope that my child will get the same
treatment.

Thank you to everyone who understands how serious this allergy is.

Where I live, not all elementary schools have cafeterias - so the kids eat in the classrooms. Having worked many years in special education, I have realized that it is imposiible for a 100% ban of any kind to occur. One child's needs can overlap with another's, and the school system has to find a balance.

My example of the special needs student who would only eat peanut butter crackers (3 meals a day!) being in the same school (and grade!) as the child with a severe peanut allergy with no reactions occuring at all for 3 years shows that there are ways to accomodate all students' needs.

 

[livndisney]

Where I live, not all elementary schools have cafeterias - so the kids eat in the classrooms. Having worked many years in special education, I have realized that it is imposiible for a 100% ban of any kind to occur. One child's needs can overlap with another's, and the school system has to find a balance.

My example of the special needs student who would only eat peanut butter crackers (3 meals a day!) being in the same school (and grade!) as the child with a severe peanut allergy with no reactions occuring at all for 3 years shows that there are ways to accomodate all students' needs.

I have tried to stay out of this one-but I wanted to say I agree 100% with this. "One child's needs can overlap with anothers" and I think this is important to remember and consider. Both my DD and I have food allergies (I have additional "airborne" allergies). I would never deny someone else something they enjoy because of my or my DD's allergies. I am teaching my DD the same thing, she has learned what she can have, she has learned what she can't have. She has learned to ask if she is not sure. (And she is barely school age). As a parent I worry about her. But I can't protect her from everything (believe me I tried-the minute I wasn't there she tried something she had never had before, not knowing and had a reaction).

Since we don't live in a "peanut free" world, how do parents deal with the peanut thing in the rest of the world? I know when I go out to eat I need to be careful, but I have never had any server tell me we can't have a PBJ from the menu because there is a child two tables over with a peanut allergy. For example several places at Disney serve PBJ uncrustables, how do peanut allergy parents deal with that?

 

[mommytoe]

This thread has made me do some thinking. I really want to learn about this topic so I can be informed and not make a mistake.

I take my dc to the YMCA pool almost everyday. After this thread got me to thinking I started to look around the pool area. I noticed a lot of pbj. If a dc eats pbj and doesn't wash real good could the pb oil get mixed into the pool water? Could that cause a reaction? Like I said earlier I am just asking to learn.

As a concerned mom I could pack something else for my dc (in fact I did yesterday). I also started not letting them in the pool till they have washed real good if they did have pbj that day. What else can I do?

 

[mjantz]

....I think schools should start off baning any food taken in to class rooms and cooking in the class room. There are too many allergies out there so no one should be aloud to take food in too the class room, not for parties or snacks anything. Give us one less thing to worry about. Kids don't need to eat during class....

As a teacher I have to say I'd be very, very sad if I couldn't do any cooking in my class. I teach preschoolers & we've made crockpot applesauce (they cut up the fruit themselves!), trail mix (this was at a peanut-free school so we were careful) & even had a fruit tasting party.
There's much more you get out of cooking activities than just eating. There's new skills that are learned, teamwork & fine motor skills are just a few.

 

[maxtomsmom]

Considering some of the choices I've seen in public school cafeterias, I don't think I want the government feeding my kids at lunchtime. I can pack a great lunch for my kids thats much healthier than anything I've seen in a school cafeteria.

Also, I have a serious problem with banning candy, chips & soda completely. 99% of the time my kids get healthy, balanced lunches. But on occasion I pack DH a Sunkist orange soda or DD a small tube of Smarties. These are my choices as their parent & I'd be a bit miffed if I couldn't continue to integrate these treats into their lunches.

Why I understand your point. Some people do not limit and I mean you should see it after Halloween. I, too, know how to provide healthy food for my kids and a little treat doesn't hurt anyone. But unfortunately we are surrounded by many who don't (look at the obesity epidemic in our kids alone). Now try teaching a child who is hopped on sugar for two hours and then comes crashing down. Many policies are written because of situations like these. I don't need a speed limit of 30mph in a residential neighborhood as I would never risk speeding just in case of a child or anyone else who happens to be on the street. Yet it's there because many people somehow loose common sense. Thus, as I stated above, if the US could get their act together and provide healthy and yummy lunches this issue would be mute. Cost is not the issue as the junk hurts more in the long run. Our district is a city with many children who have free and/or reduced lunches and breakfasts. They are all healthy and our district was one of the first in the country to ban trans fat, junk food from the cafeterias which includes soda and candy. So, as I see your point, I feel that unfortunately it has to come to an all or none rule. We save junk for home and for special occasions in school. It is better monitored.
BTW- some chips are allowed like the baked kind and pretzels.

 

[disneyandme]

Schmeck- according to the American's With Disabilities Act, when one child's needs overlap anothers, they have to accomodate both. They can not chalk it up to an overlap and not address it. Unfortunately, not many parents know that they can ask for seperate classes in this case. The school has to accomodate fully both child's needs-- even when they try to say they can not due to staffing/budgeting/facilities. Of course it's a legal issue and often schools do the least amount possible and force parents with special need kids to take them to court in order to have them follow the letter of the law.

 

[1of6]

I had to laugh at the comment that parents would complain that their children would starve without a snack. I wonder if these same parents serve breakfast, mid-morning snack, lunch, mid-day snack, and dinner at home. I have a feeling most don't eat this frequently when they are at home. My DD3 with multiple allergies and other food/eating issues has to eat very often (as told by the doctor) and she eats every 3 hours. Even she could last a whole 3 hour preschool class.

I think some of the snack or not to snack issue has to do with the fact that not everyone is a breakfast eater. DD3 does not eat in the morning. Everyone else will sit and eat breakfast but not her. She does not like any breakfast type food and will not eat other food right away. She has her first "meal" around 10. Sometimes it is a full lunch, sometimes it is a snack to get her until lunch. Her body clock is just off from the regular family. We try to change it all the time but haven't figured it out yet.

She will have a hard time (not impossible) when she gets to K if she can't have a mid-morning snack. Including travel time on the bus she will not get home until 12:30. That will be a long time to go without food. I know she is not alone. I have talked to several other mom's with older kids that had snack reinstated for their non-morning eaters.

Now if there is no snack time for dd then she will learn to cope.

 

[mikymouse]

This thread has made me do some thinking. I really want to learn about this topic so I can be informed and not make a mistake.

I take my dc to the YMCA pool almost everyday. After this thread got me to thinking I started to look around the pool area. I noticed a lot of pbj. If a dc eats pbj and doesn't wash real good could the pb oil get mixed into the pool water? Could that cause a reaction? Like I said earlier I am just asking to learn.

As a concerned mom I could pack something else for my dc (in fact I did yesterday). I also started not letting them in the pool till they have washed real good if they did have pbj that day. What else can I do?

It is nice to see a parent with no allergies show concern for those children with allergy. It is not fun to have an allergy, it is a real bummer at holidays, parties, and it is absolutely terrifying that even if you are sooo careful your kid could sit on a pool chair and get a reaction due to someone not thinking it was a big deal to wipe down the chair after a sticky lunch.

My son has "out grown" his peanut allergy but I have enough information about those children/adults with life threatening reactions that I could not not good concious take PB into a public setting with out being overly cautious to clean up. I have even been known to wipe down other peoples picnic table. We have to look out for each other. I don't get folks who can't live w/o PB in their lunchbox or school treat, it's only food, there are lots of healthy choices out there that won't be potentially fatal to others.

 

[WDWfor5]

While i don't have a child wioth food allergies, I can see both sides. My real issue with banning PB is the feeling that it creates false security. Even if you ban all PB products, unless someone in the school is charged with being the food police - how do you really know that no one's lunch contains pb? Is someone going to really look at everyone's sandwich, read each label, etc? If not - what's the point really? It's lovely to think that if you ban it and explain why that every parent will abide by it but we all know that is wishful thinking. What happens when Grandma watches little Johnny and sends him to school with a pb sandwich? Unless someone's checking each lunch and catches it - the school isn;t peanut fee anymore. What happens when an afterschool group uses a classroom and makes a craft or food snack with peanut butter by mistake? All of a sudden that safe school isn't safe anymore.

To me it is far more realistic to create a peanut free table at lunch and accept that you can't trust other people to be responsible for your child's safety. Before anyone flames me - I could care less if my kid couldn't bring a PB sandwich and would be more than happy to comply if it meant another child was safer. I'm the mom who sends in a fruit platter to my DS's class because one of the boys has a gluten and dairy allergy and I hate that if I send in cupcakes that he can't have what the other kids are eating

But I'm a realist - there's alot of parents who are only worried about their own children and aren't going to comply willingly. Far better to know that the school is unsafe and take appropriate precautions then to put on rose colored glasses and think that strangers are worthy of trusting with you child's life threatening allergy to something that is found in tons of different foods. And then there's the part of me that wonders what happens if a school agrees to go peanut free and somone smuggles in a pb sandwich and a child has a reaction? Did the school open them selves up to unnesesary liablity by agreeing to provide something they can't reasonably guarentee? Does the offending child/parent get sued and for what - since while it might violate a school policy, it isn't illegal to pack a pb sandwich for lunch.

I just wonder if the banning is a knee jerk reaction to something that is much more complicated and harder to solve.

 

[Davscotcar]

Do american children only ever have Peanut butter and jelly on their sandwiches? My kids were not impressed that was the only type of sandwich offered in most places.

 

[*KeepMovingForward*]

Do american children only ever have Peanut butter and jelly on their sandwiches? My kids were not impressed that was the only type of sandwich offered in most places.

I guess its just a common item on kids menus here. Never really gave it too much thought. What is a common Scottish children's menu have that is so different from ours?

 

[Groovee]

My children eat a range of stuff such as Cheese, turkey, ham, corned beef, coleslaw, salad(lettuce, tomato, cucumber, spring onions pepper), tuna, cheese spread. Obviously not all together but the Peanut butter is not what you would find on sandwiches.

We were grateful for subway who made them a turkey sub which was the highlight of their holiday.

When I worked in NY I refused to eat their peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and made that point. I changed the camp cook to giving bread with cold cuts and butter with the bread and getting the kids to make their own sandwiches. My only failing there was not managing to get non plastic cheese. I wanted regular cheese in blocks which could be grated or sliced but she could only get the plastic cheese(cheese slices) and there's no way we eat that here (in this house anyway).

My 2 usually have a range of stuff in their packed lunches. A sandwich or a torilla wrap or a pitta bread. I let them fill the wrap themselves with meats, cheese and salad. Then they usually have a yoghurt and either a piece of fruit or home made nothing on it popcorn which goes down well with them. Other times they will have a home made cake or muffin but as they only have 15 minutes it has to be a quick lunch. We also have different crackers over here which would be linked with cheese and often they have them with some butter and cheese or turkey instead of a sandwich.

There is so much more to give a child than peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. I also put an ice pack in the bottom of their lunch boxes or bags and that keeps their lunches cold for lunch time.

 

[Schmeck]

Schmeck- according to the American's With Disabilities Act, when one child's needs overlap anothers, they have to accomodate both. They can not chalk it up to an overlap and not address it. Unfortunately, not many parents know that they can ask for seperate classes in this case. The school has to accomodate fully both child's needs-- even when they try to say they can not due to staffing/budgeting/facilities. Of course it's a legal issue and often schools do the least amount possible and force parents with special need kids to take them to court in order to have them follow the letter of the law.

First of all, here in MA, Romney made changes to our state laws, stating that towns accomodate to a certain point, but the town doesn't have to give the parent every accomodation they demand. Meaning, if parents want their child to go to an expensive private school, the town doesn't have to do it.

My point about the overlapping needs was that the school did accomodate both sets of needs, even though they conflicted with each other, so the standards from the ADA (or is it the IDEA at this point?) was met.

It's a financial issue in most towns here - SPED costs have gone through the roof, regular teachers are getting cut, and the state has cut back on how much they reimburse. Someday, could it be all SPED, and no regular staff? Of course not, but it feels that way.

 

[Girly_Qs]

There is so much more to give a child than peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.

Yes there is. However, my dd will continue to love (and frankly prefer) a simple PB&J. You couldn't pay her enough to eat corned beef (or me, for that matter, then again I won't touch PB&J either!) . . .. I'll continue to offer all sorts of options, but that won't change her love of PB&J.

(just to avoid slams - I am one of those who is perfectly willing to avoid sending it to school)

 

[cinderella73]

While i don't have a child wioth food allergies, I can see both sides. My real issue with banning PB is the feeling that it creates false security. Even if you ban all PB products, unless someone in the school is charged with being the food police - how do you really know that no one's lunch contains pb? Is someone going to really look at everyone's sandwich, read each label, etc? If not - what's the point really? It's lovely to think that if you ban it and explain why that every parent will abide by it but we all know that is wishful thinking. What happens when Grandma watches little Johnny and sends him to school with a pb sandwich? Unless someone's checking each lunch and catches it - the school isn;t peanut fee anymore. What happens when an afterschool group uses a classroom and makes a craft or food snack with peanut butter by mistake? All of a sudden that safe school isn't safe anymore.

To me it is far more realistic to create a peanut free table at lunch and accept that you can't trust other people to be responsible for your child's safety. Before anyone flames me - I could care less if my kid couldn't bring a PB sandwich and would be more than happy to comply if it meant another child was safer. I'm the mom who sends in a fruit platter to my DS's class because one of the boys has a gluten and dairy allergy and I hate that if I send in cupcakes that he can't have what the other kids are eating

But I'm a realist - there's alot of parents who are only worried about their own children and aren't going to comply willingly. Far better to know that the school is unsafe and take appropriate precautions then to put on rose colored glasses and think that strangers are worthy of trusting with you child's life threatening allergy to something that is found in tons of different foods. And then there's the part of me that wonders what happens if a school agrees to go peanut free and somone smuggles in a pb sandwich and a child has a reaction? Did the school open them selves up to unnesesary liablity by agreeing to provide something they can't reasonably guarentee? Does the offending child/parent get sued and for what - since while it might violate a school policy, it isn't illegal to pack a pb sandwich for lunch.

I just wonder if the banning is a knee jerk reaction to something that is much more complicated and harder to solve.

When you have a child that is DEATHLY allergic to a food. Banning it never relaxes you or gives a false sense of security. That is never a issue. It creates a safer enviorment but of course its not foolproof. The idea here is to make something safer. Its like when your kid rides a bike. You put a helmet on them . It doesnt mean that that they cant still fall and bump their head ( helmet could slip , or they might bump their knee) but it doesnt mean you dont do what you can to try to protect them. You dont say to your kid that since a helmet might make you feel safe when you could still get hurt , dont wear one. Because thats not the way it works. The same law applies . Do what you can . Because they are children and because as adults we are their protectors. Its as simple as that. Vigilance is still needed always when dealing with a food allergy. Even at home when we have no nut in the house. We still have to watch what guests come in with and so on.

You have good points and I do agree. That in all reality most parents are not going to accept the rules and that making them will most likley not be enough to encourage people to follow them. So the question is what would you do if someone broke policy? This is tough because there are situations like you said where a grandmother unaware makes on and has no idea etc.. I would suggest something like a note home to remind parents again on the first offense and the second a call and warning about following school policys. And third a fine. If a parent at this point was still not following policy odds are they are not likey to follow many others and are already known within the school system already.

There should be a routine scanning of kids lunches from time to time just to ensure policy is being adhered to. They do this anyway to ensure a parent is sending in a adaquete lunch provision for the child (making sure NO child goes hungry or malnourished ) . Scanning in particular the tables with classes where a child is allergic.

Its not a paved out system. It will need thinking and rethinking. The point is that the effort is put in the right direction. What I mentioned are only off the top of my head idea's. The point is that there are possibilities.

As far as poor children whose parents cant afford much other than Pb. Most schools that I know of do provide lunches to below average income familes. Some breakfast as well. If any currently dont they sure need to! The school can make sure in the case of those kids that they get what they need to be healthy and get a good source of protien.

Is this going to solve all of the problem? No .
Is it going to lower the chances of a deathly reaction in a child? Yes
Is it worth it it even just saved 1 child ? absolutly!

 

[disneyandme]

Romney can not change federal law-- if a child has a life threatening allergy- the school must make accomodations. If the situation remains life threatening for the child- then the school is in breach of federal law-- no matter what the state law says. The parent can agree to any accomodation and often the schools bully parents in the taking less then is necessary to keep their kids safe.

 

[bibbity bobbity boo]

I just cant believe the lack of simple human compassion between parents these days. Dont we all just want to keep all our kids as safe as possible?

Isnt there enough stuff that we CANT control that we need to worry about?

It really saddens me when something so easy can be done and we live in such a 'ME' society that people simply WON'T do something to put another parents mind at ease.

I just dont get it. AT ALL.

As a society we should all work together to keep all our kids as safe as possible.

 

[Beth E. (NJ)]

My daughter has tree nut (but not peanut allergies). We found out midway through the last school year. She was in 3rd grade. She has always been a picky eater so she naturally avoided some things that she might react to. I also have allergies (but I think I've outgrown some of mine and I'm hoping she will do the same.)

My funky allergies cause me to be allergic to somethings in their raw form, but not cooked. Like apples -- raw ones make me itchy but apple sauce, juice or even cidar is fine.

My daughter tested allergic to almonds, walnuts, cashews, sesame seeds and coconut. I think I'm going to get her tested again because I wonder if she is allergic to some of these things raw also. for example the dipper cookies from Trader Joe's have coconut in it and she's had them without reacting -- but they are baked.

But she is allergic to soynut butter. They used to have it as an alternative to the lunch served at the day camp she went to. The camp was peanut free so they had soynut butter. One day she didn't want the lunch so she had a soynut butter sandwich and she got itchy -- we were lucky because that was all that happened. I called the camp and told them that from now on when she didn't like the lunch she should get pasta -- which they had every day also.