Tipping servers

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I'm sorry you feel it was t off topic. The poster was asking about cruise tipping and that wasn't what you keep having a go at me about was all I meant.



Perhaps we have a different understanding of what a generalisation is. Yes i can make generalisations but unlike yourself I don't make out they are facts which is what I took offence to. You were also making a generalisation about the world including disregarding years of cultural differences. If tipping did as u suggest give better service then we would tip universally including things like police and Drs. This isn't the norm and therefore a sweeping statement like tipping increases good service is wrong. Personally I give the same service whether I'd get a tip or not because that's how my culture has raised me.



If this statement was indeed true then other cruise ships wouldn't have the same policy so although I'm sure you would like to take credit for everything ever invented I'm not sure you can say this is an American tipping culture. Otherwise we wouldn't have a set tip we would tip 20% like you guys do as common practise. That isn't what the tip amounts are so I don't see that somehow. And as said there are some British and Itslian liners that also have a tipping policy and pay the same wages so this is an industry standard.



Again I don't think this is that or every Anerican restaurant would also charge. I have worked for Disney and it is a multicultural company. They do not inflict their rules in France for example or Hong Kong, they blend with the local culture and I'm sorry if you cant appreciate that. As said Amrrica does not rule the world (well not yet anyway) and cruise standard is to tip!

I really do not understand why you keep attacking Americans. All cultures have positive and negative attributes. Tipping culture is a positive. As evidenced, many people disagree with this statement and most of them are not from tipping cultures. Also, of course everything I am saying is my opinion and not fact. You did complain about generalizations period. And yes, Disney is a multicultural company, as most American companies are, but it is an American company and has spread many positive aspects of American values all over the world. (By the way, that too is my opinion but it may be a hard one to disagree with).
 
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I tend not to agree with this statement, I have travelled a lot and in countries where there is no tipping, and service is not generally poor, of course you can have poor service anywhere in the world you visit, whether you tip or not, you can also have very good service anywhere in the world whether you tip or not
If the staff are paid a decent wage and have decent working conditions and don't receive tips, I don't see why they would give poor service.
My pet peet with the States is that it seems every man and his dog has his hand out for a tip, not just servers.
Yes the US is a tipping culture and many people from non tipping cultures find that uncomfortable. Most people are most comfortable with their culture of origin. But when in Rome.
 
I really do not understand why you keep attacking Americans. All cultures have positive and negative attributes. Tipping culture is a positive. As evidenced, many people disagree with this statement and most of them are not from tipping cultures. Also, of course everything I am saying is my opinion and not fact. You did complain about generalizations period. And yes, Disney is a multicultural company, as most American companies are, but it is an American company and has spread many positive aspects of American values all over the world. (By the way, that too is my opinion but it may be a hard one to disagree with).

At no point have I attacked Americans! I did complain about generalisations as I don't think people should make them that doesn't mean people don't. At no point have I ever said anything bad about America or the tipping culture I have just said that there are other cultures in the world! And yes many people do disagree but I have never said I am one of them. It was the fact that you claimed no cultures in the world are offended by tips where there are some where culturally it is frowned upon that was my only point I was making to which you have then claimed a whole manner of different things and I have responded to those points. I'm sorry if you've taken this as me somehow attacking American's. I haven't and love America and Disney. I just think that your opinion that bad service comes from not tipping isn't correct in all cases. There are plenty of countries that don't tip but still get excellent service.
 
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Am I right that 'tipped' positions in the US are exempt from minimum wage legislation? If I am then that explains the different attitude I think. In the UK everyone must be paid the minimum wage and tips are 'extra'. My understanding is that in the US tips supplement a below minimum wage baseline. For this reason I tip more generously in the US. UK is usually around 10-15%. Many people in the UK do not tip at all mind you!!!

It does leave things open to interpretation. I was in a restaurant in my home town when I heard a group of Americans complain to the manager about their server. They had different expectations- they were upset he hadn't introduced himself by name, and their drinks hadn't been automatically refilled. The introduction thing is not common over here and in almost every restaurant you pay for the refills of soft drinks... They were not just not tipping him but actively complaining due to a cultural difference.
 
Am I right that 'tipped' positions in the US are exempt from minimum wage legislation? If I am then that explains the different attitude I think. In the UK everyone must be paid the minimum wage and tips are 'extra'. My understanding is that in the US tips supplement a below minimum wage baseline. For this reason I tip more generously in the US. UK is usually around 10-15%. Many people in the UK do not tip at all mind yo

You are correct. Restaurant servers are paid just over $2 an hour with the expectation they will make enough in tips to earn minimum wage. And even minimum wage is not considered a living wage. The $2 per hour is seen by most restaurant people as being just a way to cover taxes. In fact, in particularly busy times, on pay day, employees will owe the restaurant money on payday to cover their tax liability. Not sure I'd call all that a superior system, but it is American culture. Some high profile chefs are experimenting with building in service charges instead of tipping. It will be interesting to see where that goes.
 
Am I right that 'tipped' positions in the US are exempt from minimum wage legislation? If I am then that explains the different attitude I think. In the UK everyone must be paid the minimum wage and tips are 'extra'. My understanding is that in the US tips supplement a below minimum wage baseline. For this reason I tip more generously in the US. UK is usually around 10-15%. Many people in the UK do not tip at all mind you!!!
That is the standard law, but each state can make their own rules. In California, servers get the state minimum wage (which is higher than the federal minimum wage) and tips.
 
At no point have I attacked Americans! I did complain about generalisations as I don't think people should make them that doesn't mean people don't. At no point have I ever said anything bad about America or the tipping culture I have just said that there are other cultures in the world! And yes many people do disagree but I have never said I am one of them. It was the fact that you claimed no cultures in the world are offended by tips where there are some where culturally it is frowned upon that was my only point I was making to which you have then claimed a whole manner of different things and I have responded to those points. I'm sorry if you've taken this as me somehow attacking American's. I haven't and love America and Disney. I just think that your opinion that bad service comes from not tipping isn't correct in all cases. There are plenty of countries that don't tip but still get excellent service.


You make comments like this one:
"Americans don't rule the world," indicating a level of contempt for Americans and American culture.

Also, my opinion is not that bad service comes from not tipping. My opinion is that people respond to incentives, especially monetary incentives, and that a structure that allows for those direct incentives tends to produce better and excellent service.

I am still at a loss about your hatred of generalizations. Epcot, for example, is a series of generalizations. Are all Germans fully defined by the Germany pavilion/area? No. And yet it is without a doubt a German pavillion. It would not be mistaken for the Mexican pavillion. Once when I was living in Europe, someone who later became my friend told me, I knew you were American when I first saw you. Why? Because there are general things Americans do, wear, say, sound like. Are all Americans easily identifiable in Europe? No, but most are. Even the ones who think they are incognito. They are the Americans trying not to "act" American.
 
I really appreciate all of the feedback. My family does pay even if we don't partake. I just wasn't sure what others do. OK, just to put a spin. They are not serving you if you are not there. Would you be OK if you only gave a portion of a tip instead of the whole thing on the days you weren't there?

No, really, it's not. Just pay the expected pre-paid gratuity and be done with it.
 
Am I right that 'tipped' positions in the US are exempt from minimum wage legislation?

Yes, and no. There is a minimum tipped wage but it is only $2.13. Tipped positions do not have to be paid a normal hourly wage at or over the normal Federal minimum wage of I believe $7.25. BUT if their pay after hourly pay and tips does NOT reach the level of at least the Federal minimum wage, they must be paid by their employer sufficient funds to reach the minimum wage.
 
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Just stop being so cheap and pay the the expected gratuity, weather you eat in the MDR or not. These workers are are paid so little to begin and they work their butts off. Ask your self this ... if the shoe was on the other foot how would you feel.
In the grand scheme of things and what the cost of a Disney cruise is now a days the gratuity is a drop in the bucket.
 
You are correct. Restaurant servers are paid just over $2 an hour with the expectation they will make enough in tips to earn minimum wage. And even minimum wage is not considered a living wage. The $2 per hour is seen by most restaurant people as being just a way to cover taxes. In fact, in particularly busy times, on pay day, employees will owe the restaurant money on payday to cover their tax liability.

I disagree with this. In Minnesota they make the minimum wage, which is nearly $10/hr. plus tips and I've never heard any of my server/bartender friends owing the restaurant money for taxes, even when they were exempt from minimum wage laws. They'd quit in a heartbeat! They make very good money in tips, far above an hourly minimum wage and most of them work part time hours. If you are a server not able to average $10+/hour in tips alone, you need to find a new restaurant. If you wait 4 tables per hour with a $30 tab (which is very low) and only get 15% (which is again, on the low side) you will make $18/hr. in tips, plus your hourly wage.

I wonder if that's because of the American mentality (from an outsidsr's observation anyway) that paying for service via tipping ensures that your servers work harder. I always get the impression that most Americans think if there was no tipping then the servers wouldn't care and wouldn't do their job well, and that you the customer would be let down. By servers I mean on a cruise, in a restaurant, wherever.

So people want the ability to threaten to not pay it to 'entice' the server to work harder.

Does that make sense? I could be totally wrong as it's just an observation from comments I read and discussions I've had while travelling in the US. :)

No, that's not how tipping is viewed in America, at least that's not how I was raised and I've never heard of anyone I know viewing it that way. It's not seen as a threat, it's a positive thing, viewed as a reward, a thank you and it's one that the consumer can increase or decrease based on the level of service. Here's a different way of looking at it.

Lets say we have two servers working in the same MDR on a cruise.

Server 1 greets customers with a smile, shows them kindness throughout their meal, checks on them after their food arrives to make sure everything is good, fills their drinks, clears dirty dishes when they are done, interacts with your family, etc.

Server 2 treats customers like they are a bother, is visibly annoyed when he/she finds out one of your children has an allergy, doesn't bring water even after you ask and never checks on you after your food comes. Server 1 sees this this lack of service, apologizes and brings you extra bread and napkins and fills your water while server 2 is busy talking with another employee on the other side of the MDR.

In this scenario, in a non-tipping culture, server 1 and server 2 would make the same amount of money. In a tipping culture, I could thank server 1 for making our experience more pleasant and treating us so well by tipping him/her extra whereas server 2, I could reduce the tip amount. In my views, server 1 is working harder and treating people with kindness and therefore, deserves to make more than server 2. I actually believe it would be unfair to pay them the same when one is working twice as hard as the other. So the idea that a tipping culture is founded on the premise that consumers can dangle money in front of hard working employees and threaten them with loss of wages if they don't dance is just not accurate. A tipping culture is founded on the principals that those who work harder deserve to earn more and in tipped positions, that is what happens.
 
I disagree with this. In Minnesota they make the minimum wage, which is nearly $10/hr. plus tips and I've never heard any of my server/bartender friends owing the restaurant money for taxes, even when they were exempt from minimum wage laws. They'd quit in a heartbeat! They make very good money in tips, far above an hourly minimum wage and most of them work part time hours. If you are a server not able to average $10+/hour in tips alone, you need to find a new restaurant. If you wait 4 tables per hour with a $30 tab (which is very low) and only get 15% (which is again, on the low side) you will make $18/hr. in tips, plus your hourly wage.
As a previous poster mentioned, federal minimum wage is $7.25, much lower than $10. Also, only 7 states offer the same minimum wage for tipped and non tipped positions. I think using a state that is as worker friendly as Minnesota is not the strongest counter example.

However, let's go back to the "normal" US server's situation.

I waited tables in grad school and owed the restaurant a few times. Typically, it's actually when you're busy or getting lots of cc tips. The $2 an hour covers your taxes assuming you're hitting that $10-15 an hour range in tips. But, of that money, you'll then owe 5ish% of your tip money to tip outs: bartenders, expos, bussers, etc. However, you're still paying taxes on that income you're now paying to other people. Also, if you have made over that assumed wage, your tax liability is higher. Now the restaurant still owes your taxes, so you owe the restaurant for that expense. [Cash tipping helps this situation, but the workaround is technically illegal and impacts your access to federal services so...]

In terms of not making enough to hit minimum, that also happened to me a couple times. Once when we had flooding and also after 9/11. Not a regular occurrence, but certainly not unheard of.

No one expects to get rich waiting tables. Well, maybe some people do, but I don't think that's the common expectation. But, I think its reasonable to have some consistency in income.
 
No, really, it's not. Just pay the expected pre-paid gratuity and be done with it.

Again, this is not my opinion. As I said in one of my original posts I was fact gathering for a friend that differs in the opinion that was mine.
 
You make comments like this one:
"Americans don't rule the world," indicating a level of contempt for Americans and American culture.

Wasn't meant as an insult so apologies if you thought it was. This however was one comment not me continually bashing Americans and really was meant as a joke in relation to your comment about how Disney conquers the world.

I am still at a loss about your hatred of generalizations. Epcot, for example, is a series of generalizations. Are all Germans fully defined by the Germany pavilion/area? No. And yet it is without a doubt a German pavillion. It would not be mistaken for the Mexican pavillion. Once when I was living in Europe, someone who later became my friend told me, I knew you were American when I first saw you. Why? Because there are general things Americans do, wear, say, sound like. Are all Americans easily identifiable in Europe? No, but most are. Even the ones who think they are incognito. They are the Americans trying not to "act" American.

I too don't understand why you have such a problem with me not liking people generalising how the world behaves like you have done. I think we are getting the world mixed up here. What you are talking about are stereotypes. I am referring to you generalising that across the world cultures that tip offer better service than those that don't. As said multiple times this is not the case - Japan for example culturally are insulted by tips but give excellent service. I don't understand why you have a problem with me being annoyed by this generalise you made. I have a rite to express my opinion too and that is my opinion. Feel free to disagree but please stop questioning my opinion. I don't like generalism and I'm sorry that this offends you so much.
 
I've had to issue a few warnings for personal attacks here, and there have also been complaints about insulting different cultures so I am going to need to lock this thread. I hope you have your answer OP and I apologize for posters not being able to refrain from derailing this into an argument about tipping culture in the US.
 
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