Tipping servers

[Hundredacre]

I completely agree, and tipping is such a minefield here too to figure out exactly how much you should give for the service you provided. If we had a tip less society life would be great.

It is kind of funny that when we go to a store to purchase say furniture and ask the person tons of questions and they show us all our options and when we close the sale we say thanks and walk away. Take a restaurant where a server takes your order, most times, but not all times brings you your food and drink (seeing a trend where someone different brings out the food and maybe drinks), asks you if everything is alright, perhaps gets refills, and gets you your check and gets a tip of 15-20% of the bill for that.

Have you spent time in other countries? Generally very poor service. Tipping, as crass and american as it is, does work. If your boss hold out performance bonuses, they work. If your company pays commission for certain amounts of work, that works too. People are motivated to feed their families and love being incentivized. Most sales people in furniture stores earn commission- very similar to tips, performance based pay. The US is a meritocratic society and performance pay is an example of that.

 

[gismo1554]

Have you spent time in other countries? Generally very poor service. Tipping, as crass and american as it is, does work. If your boss hold out performance bonuses, they work. If your company pays commission for certain amounts of work, that works too. People are motivated to feed their families and love being incentivized. Most sales people in furniture stores earn commission- very similar to tips, performance based pay.

OK that's the biggest generalization I've ever heard! There are some countries where tipping is considered an insult and they give much better service than you will ever get in the US. Yes it works to some extent but saying generally other countries have poor service is insulting to anyone who isn't American. I have had rubbish service in America (and other countries thank you) so tipping doesn't make your country immune or better than any other. In the UK we have a minimum wage which means that anyone should have a standard wage that is reasonable. We do not make a distinction between tipped and non-tipped positions. Therefore in the UK in general tipping isn't something you do (although it is become more common). That doesn't mean you get rubbish service! If you did people would loose their jobs. Its just a different culture and has no impact on the service level you receive.

 

[cruisehopeful]

I really appreciate all of the feedback. My family does pay even if we don't partake. I just wasn't sure what others do. OK, just to put a spin. They are not serving you if you are not there. Would you be OK if you only gave a portion of a tip instead of the whole thing on the days you weren't there?

No. That is their pay. It would be like not paying employees working in a store because they didn't have customers.
It would be much nicer if the tips were just part of the cruise price, but the industry doesn't do that for some reason. Just remember that you paying a salary and if you don't pay it would be similar to you not getting paid at your own job.

 

[Hundredacre]

OK that's the biggest generalization I've ever heard! There are some countries where tipping is considered an insult and they give much better service than you will ever get in the US. Yes it works to some extent but saying generally other countries have poor service is insulting to anyone who isn't American. I have had rubbish service in America (and other countries thank you) so tipping doesn't make your country immune or better than any other. In the UK we have a minimum wage which means that anyone should have a standard wage that is reasonable. We do not make a distinction between tipped and non-tipped positions. Therefore in the UK in general tipping isn't something you do (although it is become more common). That doesn't mean you get rubbish service! If you did people would loose their jobs. Its just a different culture and has no impact on the service level you receive.

Of course tips impact service! I understand if you come from a non tipping culture you are more likely to prefer non-tipping, but to say that people who are waiting on you hand and foot like a slave are not motivated by money is to deny reality. They are not waiting on you out of the goodness of their hearts. If there is a chance you will tip them more, they will, in most cases, up the service. It is just human nature. And where are these cultures that are "offended" by tips? I have travelled the world and never had anyone reject a tip. People the world over love to wait on Americans because they very often tip "extra". It sounds like there are just a lot of entitled people who expect to be waited on for near nothing and justify it by saying it is offensive to tip. That doesn't even make sense.

 

[mimmi]

In parts of Asia tips are regarded as rather offensive. Of course nobody rejects tips, people don't want to be rude to you.
I live in a rather non tipping culture but that doesn't mean I expect to be waited on for nothing, of course. But then I don't consider a fair wage including health insurance, retirement fund and five weeks of paid vacation time as nothing. There is something like work ethics, I get paid, so I do my work properly. Your comment comes off as incredibly ignorant of other cultures, but if you feel better thinking that entire world loves to wait on Americans, I don't want to burst your bubble.

 

[Hundredacre]

In parts of Asia tips are regarded as rather offensive. Of course nobody rejects tips, people don't want to be rude to you.
I live in a rather non tipping culture but that doesn't mean I expect to be waited on for nothing, of course. But then I don't consider a fair wage including health insurance, retirement fund and five weeks of paid vacation time as nothing. There is something like work ethics, I get paid, so I do my work properly. Your comment comes off as incredibly ignorant of other cultures, but if you feel better thinking that entire world loves to wait on Americans, I don't want to burst your bubble.

I do not expect someone from a culture that does not encourage tipping to agree with me. But you might want to consider that you might be the one in the bubble.

 

[FigmentSpark]

Of course tips impact service! I understand if you come from a non tipping culture you are more likely to prefer non-tipping, but to say that people who are waiting on you hand and foot like a slave are not motivated by money is to deny reality. They are not waiting on you out of the goodness of their hearts. If there is a chance you will tip them more, they will, in most cases, up the service. It is just human nature. And where are these cultures that are "offended" by tips? I have travelled the world and never had anyone reject a tip. People the world over love to wait on Americans because they very often tip "extra". It sounds like there are just a lot of entitled people who expect to be waited on for near nothing and justify it by saying it is offensive to tip. That doesn't even make sense.

Those people in those countries smile at you and take your tip, then they laugh at you and and make derogatory remarks about Americans in general when you're gone. Okay, that's a generalization, but I've seen and heard it many times. The implication is that they would have served you just as well without your tip, but because you are an American and Americans like to throw extra money at people, they'll happily pretend to grovel to you. They're happy with more of your money and you're happy because you think you've gotten better service.

People motivated by tips, in general, would be just as motivated if they had a job that paid well. Not everyone, but then their job might be on the line if they didn't do it properly. If you only did a half-baked effort at your job, and didn't keep your clients (whether they're the public or another branch of the company or another boss) happy, your boss would let you know he's not happy. The same goes for tippable positions, if they turned into paid positions. That said, tipping positions is a great boon for start-ups and risky ventures like restaurants and bars. If they don't have to pay a good salary, they have more money to invest in getting the business going. So maybe the U.S. has more business start-ups than other countries where a salary for staff is required.

 

[Hundredacre]

Those people in those countries smile at you and take your tip, then they laugh at you and and make derogatory remarks about Americans in general when you're gone. Okay, that's a generalization, but I've seen and heard it many times. The implication is that they would have served you just as well without your tip, but because you are an American and Americans like to throw extra money at people, they'll happily pretend to grovel to you. They're happy with more of your money and you're happy because you think you've gotten better service.

People motivated by tips, in general, would be just as motivated if they had a job that paid well. Not everyone, but then their job might be on the line if they didn't do it properly. If you only did a half-baked effort at your job, and didn't keep your clients (whether they're the public or another branch of the company or another boss) happy, your boss would let you know he's not happy. The same goes for tippable positions, if they turned into paid positions. That said, tipping positions is a great boon for start-ups and risky ventures like restaurants and bars. If they don't have to pay a good salary, they have more money to invest in getting the business going. So maybe the U.S. has more business start-ups than other countries where a salary for staff is required.

I agree that people around the world make fun of americans behind their backs, just as they do many other people. But they do, in general, like to wait on Americans because they know they tip, even though they might be annoyed by them.

 

[gismo1554]

Of course tips impact service! I understand if you come from a non tipping culture you are more likely to prefer non-tipping, but to say that people who are waiting on you hand and foot like a slave are not motivated by money is to deny reality. They are not waiting on you out of the goodness of their hearts. If there is a chance you will tip them more, they will, in most cases, up the service. It is just human nature. And where are these cultures that are "offended" by tips? I have travelled the world and never had anyone reject a tip. People the world over love to wait on Americans because they very often tip "extra". It sounds like there are just a lot of entitled people who expect to be waited on for near nothing and justify it by saying it is offensive to tip. That doesn't even make sense.

Clearly not going to accept anyone else's point of view. I never said tipping didn't effect service I just said I've had just as much bad service in the US as elsewhere. And as mentioned in a lot of Asia it is offensive to tip. Just because you don't understand the culture doesn't mean you should then say the service will be bad!

If you ask someone to their face if they like serving Americans I'm fairly sure they'll say yes but that doesn't mean they do. Making generalisations is ridiculous. You don't know every person in every country to say that. I guarantee many countries say a lot of things about Americans and don't like serving them because they expect the earth! That's just my opinion though and at no point would I claim to know that is the truth like you are.

I also think this is off point as you this thread is about tipping on cruises. As said I completely agree with tipping on cruises as its part of the culture. I do however still think if they changed the name to a service charge it would stop the conflict the name "tip" seems to bring out in people

 

[Carrie in AZ]

I enjoy showing my appreciation by tipping. I saw how hard the CMs on our two DCL cruises worked and tipped almost all of them extra than the recommended amounts. I worked as a waitress myself. It was many years ago, but I can still remember what it felt like to receive great tips. I want the people who work hard on my behalf of my family and me to feel this also.

The thought of reducing a tip because *I* chose to eat elsewhere would not enter my mind.

 

[Hundredacre]

Clearly not going to accept anyone else's point of view. I never said tipping didn't effect service I just said I've had just as much bad service in the US as elsewhere. And as mentioned in a lot of Asia it is offensive to tip. Just because you don't understand the culture doesn't mean you should then say the service will be bad!

If you ask someone to their face if they like serving Americans I'm fairly sure they'll say yes but that doesn't mean they do. Making generalisations is ridiculous. You don't know every person in every country to say that. I guarantee many countries say a lot of things about Americans and don't like serving them because they expect the earth! That's just my opinion though and at no point would I claim to know that is the truth like you are.

I also think this is off point as you this thread is about tipping on cruises. As said I completely agree with tipping on cruises as its part of the culture. I do however still think if they changed the name to a service charge it would stop the conflict the name "tip" seems to bring out in people

There are a few points you make that I would like to address.

First, why is it on these boards almost every time someone finds themselves in a discussion they do not like, they call "off topic" to shut the conversation down? Obviously the topic we are discussing is related to the original post.

Second, I am not sure why you find generalizations so offense? If we do not have generalizations, we have trouble communicating. It ends up all relativism. If we do not have generalizations, we do not have exceptions. Are you saying that you cannot make generalizations about Americans? Of course you can. Do those generalizations apply to all Americans? Of course not.

Third, tipping culture is not cruising culture... it is American culture. And many of the big cruise lines are American companies and have brought that culture into cruising. And I for one am glad that they have. I would argue that is why cruising is know for service.

Finally, I think the reason why dcl and others tack on the tip charge is because so many people from other cultures try to opt out of tipping. Like it or not, it is DCL's way of saying, "we are an American company, and this is how we roll in America." As they say, when in Rome. I hope Disney remains quintessentially American. That's why people love Disney the world over.

 

[Jennifer777]

I never said tipping didn't effect service I just said I've had just as much bad service in the US as elsewhere.

I agree poor service can happen anywhere. The argument though is that in a tipping culture, the consumer at least holds some power to reduce the tip amount or not tip at all for poor service whereas in a non-tipping culture, you would be required to pay the higher service price up front regardless of the quality of service rendered. Not only is this a more consumer-based approach but it allows the servers and tipped employees, regardless of education level or previous qualifications, the opportunity to make a much higher income for good service while weeding out those that are just not meant to work in the service industry because they will undoubtedly make less. The cruise industry has chosen to use a tipped service system, which means the people who apply for those jobs want tips and won't be offended by them. If they are like the servers I know, they didn't sign up hoping to make a basic living wage, they signed hoping to make much more than that and I'd be willing to bet many of them do. The income earning potential is limitless in tipped positions.

I guarantee many countries say a lot of things about Americans and don't like serving them because they expect the earth!

If this perception that Americans "expect the world" were true, it would merely demonstrate that the tipped system does result in better service because Americans who are from a tipping culture would be used to expecting much more from their service employees. I don't think it's an accurate belief however. I, like many Americans, don't even feel comfortable having someone serve me. It's one of the reasons I usually tip more than the recommended amount. There are people with entitlement issues in every culture.

I do however still think if they changed the name to a service charge it would stop the conflict the name "tip" seems to bring out in people

I would agree with this, so long as it was clearly explained that the amount can be altered. A service charge is often a non-negotiable set fee vs. an amount that can be increased/decreased based on quality of service. As I mentioned above, I think people sign on for these positions hoping to make more than the recommended amount and many of them deserve it. I also think it would help if DCL made it easier to include tips in the purchase price so people could view it as part of the cruise fare vs. an added expense after the fact, especially when selling to customers originating in countries where tipping is rare or even offensive.

 

[gismo1554]

There are a few points you make that I would like to address.

First, why is it on these boards almost every time someone finds themselves in a discussion they do not like, they call "off topic" to shut the conversation down? Obviously the topic we are discussing is related to the original post.

I'm sorry you feel it was t off topic. The poster was asking about cruise tipping and that wasn't what you keep having a go at me about was all I meant.

Second, I am not sure why you find generalizations so offense? If we do not have generalizations, we have trouble communicating. It ends up all relativism. If we do not have generalizations, we do not have exceptions. Are you saying that you cannot make generalizations about Americans? Of course you can. Do those generalizations apply to all Americans? Of course not.

Perhaps we have a different understanding of what a generalisation is. Yes i can make generalisations but unlike yourself I don't make out they are facts which is what I took offence to. You were also making a generalisation about the world including disregarding years of cultural differences. If tipping did as u suggest give better service then we would tip universally including things like police and Drs. This isn't the norm and therefore a sweeping statement like tipping increases good service is wrong. Personally I give the same service whether I'd get a tip or not because that's how my culture has raised me.

Third, tipping culture is not cruising culture... it is American culture. And many of the big cruise lines are American companies and have brought that culture into cruising. And I for one am glad that they have. I would argue that is why cruising is know for service.

If this statement was indeed true then other cruise ships wouldn't have the same policy so although I'm sure you would like to take credit for everything ever invented I'm not sure you can say this is an American tipping culture. Otherwise we wouldn't have a set tip we would tip 20% like you guys do as common practise. That isn't what the tip amounts are so I don't see that somehow. And as said there are some British and Itslian liners that also have a tipping policy and pay the same wages so this is an industry standard.

Finally, I think the reason why dcl and others tack on the tip charge is because so many people from other cultures try to opt out of tipping. Like it or not, it is DCL's way of saying, "we are an American company, and this is how we roll in America." As they say, when in Rome. I hope Disney remains quintessentially American. That's why people love Disney the world over.

Again I don't think this is that or every Anerican restaurant would also charge. I have worked for Disney and it is a multicultural company. They do not inflict their rules in France for example or Hong Kong, they blend with the local culture and I'm sorry if you cant appreciate that. As said Amrrica does not rule the world (well not yet anyway) and cruise standard is to tip!

 

[gismo1554]

I agree poor service can happen anywhere. The argument though is that in a tipping culture, the consumer at least holds some power to reduce the tip amount or not tip at all for poor service whereas in a non-tipping culture, you would be required to pay the higher service price up front regardless of the quality of service rendered. Not only is this a more consumer-based approach but it allows the servers and tipped employees, regardless of education level or previous qualifications, the opportunity to make a much higher income for good service while weeding out those that are just not meant to work in the service industry because they will undoubtedly make less. The cruise industry has chosen to use a tipped service system, which means the people who apply for those jobs want tips and won't be offended by them. If they are like the servers I know, they didn't sign up hoping to make a basic living wage, they signed hoping to make much more than that and I'd be willing to bet many of them do. The income earning potential is limitless in tipped positions.

As said and as I keep trying to get back to the point of this thread I have never ever complained about tipping! I agree completely that they deserve every penny.

I would agree with this, so long as it was clearly explained that the amount can be altered. A service charge is often a non-negotiable set fee vs. an amount that can be increased/decreased based on quality of service. As I mentioned above, I think people sign on for these positions hoping to make more than the recommended amount and many of them deserve it. I also think it would help if DCL made it easier to include tips in the purchase price so people could view it as part of the cruise fare vs. an added expense after the fact, especially when selling to customers originating in countries where tipping is rare or even offensive.

Agreed! Some European lines now do this or include it within the costs but noted as a tip so that people are aware of it up front

 

[over50visits]

Have you spent time in other countries? Generally very poor service. Tipping, as crass and american as it is, does work.

I disagree...at least in one part of the world. We lived in Europe for several years, and service in restaurants was universally outstanding. With tips added to the bill, the servers could depend on a income, and the jobs were sought after. It showed in the high quality of service. We came to like that approach very quickly.

 

[tvguy]

No system is perfect. I think in industries where tipping remains (or has returned) it is because customers demand it over the alternatives.
My daughter went to school in England for a year, and the no tipping took some getting used to. And since free refills on coffee, and soft drinks are not the norm, there are far fewer trips to your table by your server. They take your order, bring your food, usually with the bill, and might check back once to make sure your order is satisfactory.

 

[AquaDame]

They take your order, bring your food, usually with the bill, and might check back once to make sure your order is satisfactory.

That sounds like pretty much every waiter I've had here in the US as well, though we usually get the bill during the check that we are happy.

In Japan, tipping is seen as an insult. I have had the best service in my life while in Japan, and I've been all over Europe, N. America & S. America also. I've had good and bad servers regardless of the 'fanciness' of the restaurant and whether or not I was in a county where tipping was the norm mind you.

Anyway, to go back on topic, yes we tip every day regardless of whether or not we eat in the MDR since those servers typically work at the other food places as well during the day. Even if we go eat at Palo and tip there as well we still pay our tips to the wait staff at the MDR.

 

[LivingforDisney]

I wonder if that's because of the American mentality (from an outsidsr's observation anyway) that paying for service via tipping ensures that your servers work harder. I always get the impression that most Americans think if there was no tipping then the servers wouldn't care and wouldn't do their job well, and that you the customer would be let down. By servers I mean on a cruise, in a restaurant, wherever.

So people want the ability to threaten to not pay it to 'entice' the server to work harder.

Does that make sense? I could be totally wrong as it's just an observation from comments I read and discussions I've had while travelling in the US.

Agree it's so hard to get my head around the "tipping" in the States. No tipping here in Aus, of course you can if you want but not expected. People that work in hospitality roles get very good wages here. Also a couple of cruise lines that come over to Aus have no tipping, P and O and Carnival come to mind.

 

[LivingforDisney]

I haven't cruised Carnival here in Australia (like you, only cruised DCL), but my understanding is that there are no tips on Carnival ships that sail from Australia either. Their staff are paid more to allow for that. I also believe (although am happy to be corrected) that Carnival don't really move staff around between Australian and non-Australian based ships due to the different contracts and wages based on the no tipping requirements.

Yes, no tipping on Carnival or P and O from Australia

 

[LivingforDisney]

Have you spent time in other countries? Generally very poor service. Tipping, as crass and american as it is, does work. If your boss hold out performance bonuses, they work. If your company pays commission for certain amounts of work, that works too. People are motivated to feed their families and love being incentivized. Most sales people in furniture stores earn commission- very similar to tips, performance based pay. The US is a meritocratic society and performance pay is an example of that.

I tend not to agree with this statement, I have travelled a lot and in countries where there is no tipping, and service is not generally poor, of course you can have poor service anywhere in the world you visit, whether you tip or not, you can also have very good service anywhere in the world whether you tip or not
If the staff are paid a decent wage and have decent working conditions and don't receive tips, I don't see why they would give poor service.
My pet peet with the States is that it seems every man and his dog has his hand out for a tip, not just servers.