Tin foil hat concerns about resale

[brich330]

I know it’s probably tinfoil hat thinking, but my only concern about buying resale is that Disney will continue to pile on limitations or booking restrictions that will really limit my membership long term. Does anyone else have these concerns, or I am just over thinking it? Trying to decide between resale and direct right now.

 

[CarolMN]

IMO, it's a very small risk. Adding restrictions to the existing associations would be very difficult and unlikely to provide much of a benefit (if any) to Disney. IANAL, but I believe the existing associations can not legally treat owners differently based on how they acquired their points.

They are much more likely to keep resale purchasers from using those points for new DVC resorts, like the Riviera Resort, or to add perks/discounts available only to those who buy direct points.

 

[Matty B13]

If DVC starts making more restrictions on resale, we will just sell and take our money else where. I think they are limited in what they can do with the current contract on the Original 14, so I'm not to worried right now. But, we are in the process of selling one of our contracts that would have let us go 2 time a year because of the changes at WDW.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

If you buy an O14 resale, they cannot prevent your use of those points amongst the O14. They can prevent the use for new resorts (and do).

As contracts expire you will have fewer choices as the O14 become the O10, the O5, the last original. But you may be too dead to care much by 2060+.

 

[Sandisw]

There really isn’t anything they can do to limit the use of resale points.

As long as a resort remains part of BVTC, all points at that resort can trade into the other resorts built prior to RIV..RIV was admitted with different rules and all owners were grandfathered in who owned before that time.

As already mentioned, they could add more perks and benefits to direct owners that indirectly impact resale.

I think at this point, the limitations we have are the biggest difference that can happen.

 

[DVC Doctor]

Well, if your intention is to use DVC for DVC resort vacations (best value) then I dont see anything to worry about. Also, any significant future changes generally allows some form of grandfathering for current members.

 

[PAW of Maryland]

I know it’s probably tinfoil hat thinking, but my only concern about buying resale is that Disney will continue to pile on limitations or booking restrictions that will really limit my membership long term. Does anyone else have these concerns, or I am just over thinking it? Trying to decide between resale and direct right now.

It was one of the concerns my wife and I had too. Like a lot of people have already said it seems like the only thing they can stop you from using your points from resort wise are new ones. They added to Grand Flo and you can still use them there in the 7 month window. I would suspect the same at Poly when it’s done. We jumped and went resale the difference in price was just too great with the perks potentially being changed, etc for the blue card. That was our bigger discussion… is the blue card worth the extra money per point if Disney won’t commit to the perks for the life of your contract.

 

[Kcasey02]

My husband always points out that Disney really needs resale (whether they want to admit it or not) as it’s part of the package. Disney isn’t your typical timeshare… they point out that it holds value and if you want to make any changes… you have flexibility. I always try to keep that idea in mind as sometimes it’s hard, especially with rumors and things floating around! So they can make changes that could impact resale, but it’s a fine line, too…

 

[Genie+]

One concern we had about the future of resale DVC is the restrictions making availability outside the home resort window harder. If more direct restricted resorts come online in the next 5-10 years and they continue having high point charts, an imbalance could occur. Say 4 restricted resorts are trying to get in to BWV, BLT, BC to make their points go further but the resale owners at those resorts cannot reciprocate and book those restricted resorts. What we may see is very little <6 month availability at popular resorts, while there’s plenty availability at restricted resorts that resale can’t use. IMO it could trigger a lawsuit but it’d stink until resolved. Booking windows can also be changed, adding to the ucertainty of how this plays out.

It’s clear that Direct is trying to increase its value by chipping away at Resale’s potential, so possibly more limitations against resale get dreamed up and executed. I think a safe bet against all of this is making sure to buy where you wouldn’t mind ever staying, not relying on ability to easily trade, and being able to book during your home resort window. If those things are true for a resale buyer then I don’t think there’s much to worry about.

 

[Straulin]

I am sometimes wonder how Disney is actually restricting resale owners from the original 14 from utilizing RIV while allowing RIV direct owners to utilize the original 14. That was the rule when I bought in so it doesn’t worry me, but I am not sure about what would hold if there was a legal challenge. By sharing the original 14 with Riviera owners, they are taking from the original owners without compensating the resale purchasers from the original 14.

I can see how they can restrict Riviera resale purchasers to Riviera only as that was built into the association upon creation and doesn’t take from other associations.

 

[brich330]

Although they did not do it with the Grand, and I wonder if that was just because they used an existing building, I am worried the Poly Tower may have the same restrictions. If it did, it could be a model of how they could limit certain rooms at the 14 by building an add-on with each then using a different association.

 

[AdamsMum]

I'm old so I'm not worried about the newer resorts, I'll be 85 when my contracts expire. I bought where I wanted to stay. The O14 may be a bit tired looking but they have the best locations at WDW (save for AKV but "it's got a freakin' savanna"), that's why I think they keep adding on to existing resorts (well also they're an obvious cash cow). I'd be much more worried about new resorts' contracts having some kind of back door legalese that allows them to make substantial changes to those owners rights of use. I used to be a much more trusting person, but Bob has taught me a lesson in life!

 

[Sandisw]

I am sometimes wonder how Disney is actually restricting resale owners from the original 14 from utilizing RIV while allowing RIV direct owners to utilize the original 14. That was the rule when I bought in so it doesn’t worry me, but I am not sure about what would hold if there was a legal challenge. By sharing the original 14 with Riviera owners, they are taking from the original owners without compensating the resale purchasers from the original 14.

I can see how they can restrict Riviera resale purchasers to Riviera only as that was built into the association upon creation and doesn’t take from other associations.

When RIV entered BVTC..what allows the DVC resorts to trade into each other, it entered with the rules that resale owners for all the resorts would be restricted from the other,

While we clump all the 14 together, it’s really not. Each L14 is it’s own resort so it’s trading is comparing only its resale owners against RIV resale owners,

The DVC resort agreements with BVTC do allow it to be amended and the grandfathering of those who bought with one set of terms still have them.

So, right now BLT resale owners are blocked from RIV, and RIV resale owners are blocked from BLT. So, in that sense it’s recepricoal.

When one trades, home resort points are converted into vacation points and that is what gives them the ability to trade…behind the scenes but technical piece.

Direct buyers for the L14 still have the power to trade as well, so in that sense, its the same. The trading is based on types of points.

While I personally think it would withstand a challenge, I know others do not.

 

[tjkraz]

Depending on how far down the road you're looking, bear in mind that the restrictions are likely to expand as original contracts expire. If you buy Saratoga Springs points, they are valid into 2054. However, the existing contracts for BoardWalk, Beach Club, Boulder Ridge, Hilton Head and Vero expire in 2042. You're all but certain to lose access to those resorts as of 1/31/42, even if new contracts are created and the points re-sold.

Buying resale today gets you access to 14 resorts. But that number will gradually shrink starting in about 19 years.

 

[Jwaire]

If you own a long-term resale contract at PVB, GFV, SSR, etc, just accept that you may get locked out of 2042 resorts when they expire in 19 years. Otherwise, you should be pretty happy.

Walt Disney World is pretty much set. You're not going to see expansive growth at that property over the next 20 years like we did in the 90's. It's already built out.

I'm not saying they won't build a boutique deluxe resort here or there or expand a current resort, but most of the prime real estate (except for one or two locations) is already taken.

You're not going to see a Grand Floridian, Wilderness Lodge, Beach & Yacht Club, Boardwalk, etc. level resort built at Walt Disney World ever again.

That era is over. Enjoy the resorts you have.

 

[RoseGold]

There's not much left to take. Maybe the DVD library, LOL. They took TOTW already. In the O14, resale has to be treated the same as direct.

That said, Disney's decisions can impact the system. Like putting millions and millions of points into off-site resorts, increasing pressure. Any construction that isn't in the core WDW model is going to put pressure on WDW bookings. This could be Aulani 2 or Vero 2 or whatever. So, it's important to buy where you want to stay.

There's also overall Disney risk. WDW in general could make itself too expensive or dysfunctional, or not have as much demand for whatever reason.

To me, how long you plan to hold is the most important factor in deciding between resale and direct.

 

[Jwaire]

This could be Aulani 2 or Vero 2 or whatever.

That risk is about zero.

There's also overall Disney risk. WDW in general could make itself too expensive or dysfunctional, or not have as much demand for whatever reason.

If anything is a threat it's this. While the Disney brand is strong, it may become supplanted by newer and more immersive theme parks that are willing to change. And then there's always the looming threat of technology (VR, AR, etc.).

We can stomp and throw a fit, but 3/4ths of the attractions at any domestic Disney park are based on old IP that is less relevant to the current and upcoming generations.

Just wait until they rebrand Peter Pan's Flight to Moana's boat adventure or Country Bears becomes Woody's Roundup (the show).

Enjoy them while they last.

 

[RoseGold]

That risk is about zero.

IMO, the risk of Disney putting up some beachside something in Florida is not zero. It's what I thought they would do mid-Covid actually, flip some failed property. Though DVC certainly has enough bags in Hawaii already, LOL. I agree there!

 

[Jwaire]

IMO, the risk of Disney putting up some beachside something in Florida is not zero. It's what I thought they would do mid-Covid actually, flip some failed property. Though DVC certainly has enough bags in Hawaii already, LOL. I agree there!

Interesting. Cocoa pre-cruise destination, possibly? Or Tampa?

Honestly, I don't think they have the ambition for major domestic projects anymore and they're also too cheap to run the transportation.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Interesting. Cocoa pre-cruise destination, possibly? Or Tampa?

Honestly, I don't think they have the ambition for major domestic projects anymore and they're also too cheap to run the transportation.

The only place they MIGHT do that would be Miami as that port has what is shaping up to be the premier cruise terminal in the world. I could see more Disney cruises out of Miami as that gives them an extra day and maybe opens up more of the western Caribbean too.

I don’t see them doing anything in the Port Canaveral/Cocoa Beach area, as it’s honestly pretty old and tired and still rocking that “let’s go watch the Apollo launch on the beach” vibe. That, and it’s only 45 minutes from Orlando and I’m guessing Disney is happier to keep cruise passengers spending in the Orlando bubble and simply truck them over to the port.

Tampa’s cruise terminal is oddly located and quirky small.