Tiki tiki tiki tiki tiki run (comments welcome)

[Cabius]

2023-01-1 End-of-Week Summary
This week I completed 32.3 miles against my plan of 35.0 across six five runs.


I caught a cold a couple of days ago. After freaking out at my overeager heat acclimation runs I had a couple of really solid performances mid-week. Then Saturday morning I woke up feeling slightly under the weather -- not really terrible, just slightly congested. Also, my sleeping HR was pretty high that night (60-70 bpm instead of 45-50).

I still did my long run because I really wanted to hit the 200-mile mark for the month. I cut it down to 8.5 miles since that was all I really needed. But I could definitely feel the impact. My HR was basically 10-15 bpm too high for my pace, and it felt like I warmed up super slowly. I had to slow down to about a 13:00 pace for the first few miles, then about halfway through my HR started to drop and I was able to pick it up to the 11:40-12:00 range.

I skipped today's run, and plan to rest the next couple of days as well, to give my body time to get over this cold. It's pretty mild, and I'm already feeling better today than I was yesterday. I'm not concerned about still being contagious, but just about getting my lungs back to 100%. So I'll rest until I stop being sniffly, then use a few short/slow runs to gauge how I'm doing in the lead-up to Sunday's marathon. Even if I'm not at 100%, I'm looking forward to a good race!

 

[Cabius]

I still haven't run since my last update, between recovering from a mild cold and getting ready for my trip. Will try to do a few miles today and Saturday and see how I am.

I'm getting pretty nervous about the weather on Sunday, with temps continuing to climb up towards the 80-degree mark. I know most of the race will be in the 60s, but with a T&D of 125-130 I'll need to adjust my paces down a bit. Something like this:


Sub-5 could still be in reach, even with higher temps, but it could be an aggressive goal. We'll see how it goes!

Unfortunately I should be at Hollywood Studios right now, and instead am sitting at home in Texas. My flight yesterday morning was cancelled, and we weren't rebooked until late tonight, so we lost a full day and a half off of our trip. (The perils of booking 1st Class with points: we would've gladly downgraded to catch an earlier flight yesterday, but didn't have the option to do so -- they automatically rebooked us in 1st Class on a later flight -- and by the time we stood in a long customer service line all earlier flights had been filled up).

I'm grateful for my kids, whose tears of disappointment have forced me to try and stay positive and focus on the good times we'll have, not the disappointments. It's a long trip (we stay until the 13th) so we'll still have a great time. But I want to be there already!

 

[surfde22]

It was great meeting you Sunday morning and congrats on your race!!

 

[Cabius]

It was great meeting you Sunday morning and congrats on your race!!

Thanks! Good to meet you too - and congrats!

 

[Cabius]

WORLD'S MOST BELATED RACE RECAP -- 2023 WDW Marathon

Yes, this is more than a year late. I feel silly doing even a short recap after such a long time, but y'all stuck with me through the training and I wanted to come back and wrap it up - in part to thank y'all for the advice and encouragement all along the way.

I completed the 2023 Walt Disney World Marathon in 4:55:48, an accomplishment of which I am very proud.



This placed me in the top 27% of male finishers, and the top 31% of my division (male 35-39).

I had about a 9-minute difference between "Moving Time" and "Elapsed Time", comprised of water stops, bathroom breaks, and even a few character photos! I loved the 90s throwback characters. (Unfortunately my photo with Monterrey Jack never showed up in PhotoPass.)



Race notes:

• I carb-loaded the day before with a lot of Maurten 320 gels. I think I had about 1000g of carbohydrates, including 8 or 9 servings of Maurten, combined with other carby low-fat food.
  
  
• I had to pee so badly for the first few miles of the race! I think I ran into the treeline to pee three times in the first 4 miles. It got better as I went along, with one just short bathroom stop at MK and another in DAK.
  
  
• I brought food -- mostly gels -- and took them every few miles, just before water stops. I skipped my very last one, because it as only a mile and a half before the finish line, and regretted it. I started to feel a little woozy in the last half-mile, but powered through to the end.
  
  
• My whole family (parents, wife, and three kids) came to cheer me on at the TTC, but missed me on the Poly side. I caught up with them again in Epcot just a few miles before the finish line!
  
  
• My heart rate climbed fairly consistently, as temps picked up and I got tired, but were never too bad.
  • Miles 1-9 avg 155 bpm (80% MHR)
  • Miles 10-18 avg 161 bpm (83% MHR)
  • Miles 19-end avg 170 bpm (88% MHR)
    
• My slowest miles (elapsed time) were Mile 11 at 12:18 (bathroom stop in MK) and Mile 1 at 12:04 (crowded start + pee break)
  
  
• My fastest mile (elapsed time) was Mile 22 -- Blizzard Beach parking lot! This was actually a perverse goal of mine, and I even made a "Mile 22" playlist of peppy music to motivate me through the drudgery. Even that mile was magic.
  
  
• My watch recorded a distance of 26.48, so not too much extra distance added to the official course.
  
  
• I smashed my previous PR of 6:17:33, and knocked off several of my goals at once:
  • Full Marathon - PR 4:55:48 (January 8, 2023)
    • Any time 6:17:33 (January 9, 2022)
    • Full Marathon < 6:00 (January 8, 2023)
    • Full Marathon < 5:30 (January 8, 2023)
    • Full Marathon < 5:00 (January 8, 2023)
      
• After being waylaid by tendinitis in 2022, I didn't get injured!

Overall, it was a hugely successful race for me. Thanks to everybody who followed along, providing advice and encouragement. Sorry it took me more than a year to follow up and let y'all know how it went! =p

 

[jmasgat]

I love the (Strava?) description....Morning Run! Also, the trace looks like a wonky animal.

 

[Cabius]

OK, back at this!

I'm signed up for the Dallas Skyline Half-Marathon on April 20th, which is about 11 weeks away.

My goals for the race:

• Cross the starting line
• Cross the finish line
  • Literally any time (base goal)
  • < 2:38 / 12 min/mile (mid goal)
  • < 2:25 / 11 min/mile (stretch goal)
• Build a foundation of speed and conditioning for future training plans!

I've been running 10-20 miles/week for the past few months, mostly easy mileage with a smattering of tempo, stride, and long (6-8 miles) runs. I've also lost 15 pounds in the last three months (from 214 to 199), which is helping with my speed and conditioning.

I'm confident I could run 13.1 miles this weekend if I needed to, although I would not achieve the mid/stretch goals above. My current paces are consistent with my stretch goal of an 11/mile HM pace, but I don't think I can do both that pace and that mileage right now. But I have 2.5 months to get there!

My training plan is a modified version of Hanson's Advanced Half-Marathon plan, with an 11:00/mile target pace, with a few modifications:

• Moved everything back 1 day, so that Long Runs are Saturday instead of Sunday, Speed intervals are Monday instead of Tuesday, HM Tempo runs are Wednesday instead of Thursday, etc. Keeping the distribution in place, so there are no SoS workouts back-to-back.
  
  
• Gave up the Wednesday rest day in order to spread out my Easy mileage (e.g. spreading 16 miles across 4 days rather than 3)
  
  
• Cut mileage on the mid-week SoS runs (interval + HM Tempo) by about 20-25%. This one is painful, since I know these workouts are valuable and the last mileage is more valuable than the first mileage. But with 4 small kids, including a newborn, it's reallyrough to do multiple 2-hour workouts during the week. I need to be back home by 7AM every morning! So in the spirit of Hanson's "something is better than nothing", I've cut these to be 1:20-1:30 instead of 1:45-2:00.
  • Cut WU/CD from 1.5M each to 1.0M each
  • Reduced reps of mileage (e.g. 6-mile @ HM tempo becomes 5, 12x400m becomes 10x400m)
  • Kept the structure of the workouts in place (e.g. 3x2M becomes 2x2M, but not 2x1.5M)

Here's what two weeks late in the plan look like:


Overall, I feel really good and excited. My current pacing and conditioning are consistent with my target pace. I'm continuing to lose weight, with the goal of being back under 190 by race day. I ran a sub-5 marathon a year ago, so while I got wildly out of shape, if I can regain most of last year's conditioning then this is a conservative goal.

That said, I'm prepared to trim my ambitions as I get closer to race day, recognizing that if I'm only doing 80% of the plan I can't expect 100% of the results. I will just do the work, and re-evaluate closer to race day to set my final race plan and pace goals.

 

[Cabius]

2024-02-01 Mid-Week Update
This week is going well so far: I've gotten out each day, run my planned mileage, and hit my pace targets. Since this is based on a Hanson's plan, I'm focusing on pace rather than training by HR as I have in the past. That said, I am looking at HR data, especially on easy runs, just to make sure that I can hit these paces without overexerting myself.



This was my first time running a pace-based speed run, with 12x400m (I just use the quarter-mile markers on my local trail, which is close enough) and 400m jog rest.

I've done strides before, but they've always been "just run as fast as you possibly can". With Hanson's plan, these have specific pace targets, between 5k and 10k pace. For me, that's in the range of 10:07-10:33.

I had a really hard time getting a good sense of that pace. I started out WAY too fast, with 3 of my first four intervals below 9:30. I had a few misses on the other side, not because I was tired but because I was overcorrecting. Overall, only 6 of my 12 intervals were within the target pace range. That included 5 of my last 6 attempts, so I sort of got the hang of it by the end, but it was definitely an adjustment.



I'm not sure how to get better at this, other than just doing it and getting a feel for the pace. That seems tricky, though, as that speed will feel different as my conditioning changes. We'll see!

I used my Apple Watch's workout app so I could double-tap to log segments (I normally use Strava, which doesn't have that ability). But it doesn't provide velocity data mid-segment, and 400m probably isn't long enough to get good data and meaningfully adjust.

 

[WillRunForPizza]

I had a really hard time getting a good sense of that pace. I started out WAY too fast, with 3 of my first four intervals below 9:30. I had a few misses on the other side, not because I was tired but because I was overcorrecting. Overall, only 6 of my 12 intervals were within the target pace range. That included 5 of my last 6 attempts, so I sort of got the hang of it by the end, but it was definitely an adjustment.

I hear you - I always have trouble with pacing on short intervals. (Okay, also sometimes long intervals ) Because they're so short and the GPS won't necessarily be all that accurate, you may be better off looking at the overall time than pace. So you'd want a quarter of a mile to take somewhere in the range of 2:32 - 2:38. (Probably. You should always double-check my math ) With practice, it'll get easier to find the right effort.

 

[Cabius]

I hear you - I always have trouble with pacing on short intervals. (Okay, also sometimes long intervals ) Because they're so short and the GPS won't necessarily be all that accurate, you may be better off looking at the overall time than pace. So you'd want a quarter of a mile to take somewhere in the range of 2:32 - 2:38. (Probably. You should always double-check my math ) With practice, it'll get easier to find the right effort.

Thanks! That's a really helpful thought.

 

[NYC_MW]

I'm signed up for the Dallas Skyline Half-Marathon on April 20th, which is about 11 weeks away.

Got to do that last year! Recap here if you're interested. Was fun, but warm.

Have fun with the training!

 

[GollyGadget]

Add me to the club that struggles to find the right pace. It does get easier with practice and if you’re doing them each week, your fitness won’t change so radically that you don’t just naturally adjust.

 

[Cabius]

Got to do that last year! Recap here if you're interested. Was fun, but warm.

Have fun with the training!

Thanks for sharing! I live here, so I'm vaguely familiar with the path, but it's fun to hear your perspective as somebody who has actually run it!

Add me to the club that struggles to find the right pace. It does get easier with practice and if you’re doing them each week, your fitness won’t change so radically that you don’t just naturally adjust.

Yeah, that's what I'm hoping for. I felt pretty good about how I was able to (mostly) settle into the pace in the back half. It just makes me more impressed for runners who can keep super-consistent splits.

==

Reading this today, on the subject of easy runs (and finding one's pace).
https://lukehumphreyrunning.com/a-fresh-look-at-easy-runs-regenerative-vs-moderate/

One thing Hanson's stresses is the importance of hitting your paces in the Something of Substance (SoS) runs. I've been curious whether that carries over into Easy runs, or if it's okay to run those even slower then a M+2 pace if you're finding that even that is too much effort.

To be clear: it's not that I can't usually keep that pace - it's generally in the middle of Zone 2 for me - so I don't take it as a marker that my goal pace is too aggressive. But after a series of hard workouts, if I am feeling mildly sick or sleep-deprived, what kind of adjustments should I make? Do I need to hit specific paces to achieve my desired physiological adaptations, or is it just about racking up easy mileage?

So this blog post highlights that the goals of an 'Easy' run can change based on where it is, within the plan and even within the week.

• Early in your training, faster-paced easy runs generate more gains; later on, as focus shifts to more speed and specific workouts, they may be more about recovery. (To be fair: I'm so out-of-shape that even in week 18 I may count as "early in my training" from Hanson's perspective!)
  
  
• Additionally, within a given week, you may need a super-slow recovery/regenerative run after a hard workout, but at a more moderate pace closer to the long run.

I thought this was a helpful perspective, as my brain adjusts to more HR-based training to more pace-based training, and I thought I'd share!

 

[WillRunForPizza]

I like to think of "easy" as an effort rather than a pace, and my runs reflect that. Average pace for my easy runs this week:

• 10:11
• 9:33
• 10:19
• 11:28

Definitely not trying to hit any pace targets here!

 

[azrivest]

I've been curious whether that carries over into Easy runs, or if it's okay to run those even slower then a M+2 pace if you're finding that even that is too much effort.

Based on what Billy has advised me on the past, I believe this to be true:

https://www.disboards.com/threads/i...-again-comments-welcome.3855294/post-64165085

When I was marathon training in 2022, he told me I could run almost 2 minutes slower / km, so about 2-3 minutes slower/mile, and still reap the benefits.

 

[Cabius]

2024-02-04 End-of-week Summary
This week I completed 32.0 miles against my plan of 32.0 miles across seven runs.


This was my ramp-up week to transition from my "lol whatever" approach to HM training, into a (modified) Hanson's Advanced HM plan. (As noted in my previous post, I'm doing Hanson's plan, but cutting about 20% of the speed/tempo distance, and spreading out my Easy mileage, giving up the rest day to do so.)

Since my overall mileage is jumping quite a bit this year, I made a few adjustments, doing only one of the two speed workouts, and running the long run at my Easy pace.

I stuck to my (modified) plan pretty well, although I shortened Friday's easy run due to family obligations and tacked on the 1.5 miles to Saturday and Sunday's efforts at the same pace.

I also shifted my schedule from evening runs to morning runs, which means I've been waking up no later than 5AM the last few days. This is quite an adjustment, but I have to be back no later than 7AM, when my toddler son's alarm clock changes color, at which point he starts calling "DAAAA DAAAA!!!!" I can't miss that, both because my wife (taking care of the 6-week-old) needs the extra rest, and because, well, the days may be long but the years are much too short. <3

This coming week will be in the full groove of my HM training plan, with longer workouts Monday and Wednesday, a Saturday long run, and moderate easy runs the rest of the week.


While I've shortened the M/W workouts, I do have the original distance goals logged. If I can drag myself out of bed early enough, I'll run up to the full mileage. For example, this morning's planned run was shortened by reducing WU/CD from 1.5 miles 1 mile each; I was able to add back an extra half-mile of warm-up. I didn't cut any of the long/easy mileage, so I should be able to add back in that mileage without needing to make other adjustments; I'll just be getting closer to the ideal plan.

 

[nancipants]

I have to be back no later than 7AM, when my toddler son's alarm clock changes color

This made me laugh. When they're toddlers it's all we can do to get them to stay in bed long enough. But eventually we'll have to drag them out of bed.

 

[Cabius]

2024-02-07 Mid-Week Update
This has been a great week so far! I've gotten up every morning, run the mileage and pacing I'm supposed to, and felt great.

The 5AM wake-up has been the one part of this plan that made me most nervous from the get-go. I'll be honest: I really didn't want to get up today. But then I remembered I would have to post here and admit that I was lazy, so I got out of bed and did the run. Thanks, y'all!



Run Journal
2/5 -- 1mi WU / 6x800m @ 5k-10kpace / 1mi CD
Had a bit of a mental lapse here and was targeting 10:30 rather than 10:15 on my 800m intervals. Still struggling to get the feel for that pacing, but it's getting better. I had one much to fast (9:50) and one much too slow (11:00), but the rest were around 10:30-10:40. A bit too slow for my actual target, but not too far off the target I made up in my head.

I ran an "extra" half-mile of warm-up. That was really part of Hanson's plan that I cut for time, but I got up early enough to add it back in.

2/6 -- 4mi @ easy
SUPER easy easy run. Just could not find a pace slower than about 13:20/mile, and even then my HR was in Zone 1 most of the time. It helped that it was cold (38*, in shorts) but hopefully also a sign of improved conditioning!

2/7 -- 1mi WU / 4mi @ HM Tempo / 1mi CD
This run did exactly what it was supposed to do. My Tempo splits were all right on pace (11:01/mi vs 11:00/mi target). My WU/CU were slightly fast (13:20/mi vs 13:30/mi target) but with HR on the very low end of Zone 2, I felt okay with that.

Overall Notes & Data Geek Time
After very little mileage for 10 months, I started running again in November, slow and easy, just to get my legs back under me. After two months of low-mileage easy runs, I started training in earnest in January. Still lots of easy mileage, but with more total mileage, and with a few workouts mixed in.

It's still early in February, but there's enough data to support my gut feeling that I'm seeing real improvement!

My Easy runs have shifted from 14-15 min/mi to 13:30 (my target, for an 11:00/mi HM goal), and at a lower HR. Though there are fewer datapoints, my workouts have also been significantly more efficient.

As a result, my HR vs Pace powerline shows a notable positive shift.

Since I'm trying to follow the Hanson's HM plan, I don't plan on adjusting my pace goals for this cycle. But I feel good about extending these gains across more mileage, both to hit my HM goals, and to lay a foundation for M training in the fall!

 

[avondale]

But then I remembered I would have to post here and admit that I was lazy, so I got out of bed and did the run. Thanks, y'all!

Accountability can be really helpful! I see that you got up and ran!

 

[Cabius]

2024-02-12 End-of-Week Recap
This week I completed 39.0 miles against my plan of 38.5 across seven runs.


In general, I'm hitting the point where my cardio fitness has started to come back, and I'm hitting my pace targets so easily I start to worry they aren't aggressive enough. But I'm sticking with my HM plan, and I'll re-evaluate once that's done in April.

2/8 -- 4mi @ easy (13:30/mile target; 13:37/mile actual @ 148bpm)
This was an easy run in terms of PE, HR, and pacing. Definitely slower/harder than other days, but it was also about much warmer and more humid (66+51 TD). That's what I get for deciding to sleep in and do a lunchtime run!

2/9 - 4mi @ easy (13:30/mile target; 13:20 actual w/ 133bpm)
Back to super-easy and super-low HR, with lower temps in the early morning.

2/10 - 10mi @ LR (12:30/mile target; 12:25 actual w/ 146bpm)
GREAT long run! Felt as strong at the end as I did at the beginning, and ran right at my pace targets for every mile. First few (uphill) miles were on the high end of Zone 2, but the rest were solidly within my easy range in terms of HR.

Not super fun running in drizzle for 2+ hours, but it was a really good run. The kind of workout where I come home and I'm tempted to lower my pace targets, before reminding myself to stick to the plan and just take this training as a building phase.

2/11 - 4mi @ easy (13:30/mile target; 13:19 actual w/ 138bpm)
This run was fine from a conditioning perspective, but I felt really hungry, and like I lacked energy, the whole time. It took more mental toughness than physical strength to keep going. That's why I should run in the morning and not put it off until after dinner!

It's been cold (40s) and rainy the last few days. Still shorts weather, but it's getting marginal. I look forward to running when I'm not getting soaked and freezing.

---

On the weight loss front, things have been proceeding very well! I'm averaging a 585/day calorie deficit, or about 22% of my intake. (Not counting a weeklong business trip, it's more like 620/day). My diet is 50%-60% carbohydrates, so I make sure I keep my running energy up. I've cut booze out almost entirely, but I'll eat candy or snack food if it fits my overall goals.

The net result of all this is that I've dropped from ~215 to just under 198 since early November. The chart below shows my weekly improvements. ("Proj." comes from totaling up calorie deficits, with every 3,500 calories equalling one pound of fat.)



My actual weight has been running slightly ahead of my projected weight the last few weeks. That's mostly just a function of timing. (TMI incoming...) I had been waking up, going to the bathroom, and then weighing myself, so I had consistent conditions every day. But now that I'm waking up earlier to go out running, that go-to-the-bathroom step hasn't quite caught up with my new routine...

At this rate, I should hit my first weight goal (<190lb) before my April HM. I then plan to reduce my calorie deficit targets as I lose weight, proceeding more slowly towards the ~175lb mark by EOY.

Overall, I'm very happy with this progress!!