Tiers For Fears

[Tasmen]

I really can't, but thank you for that thread title.

The title alone makes this thread win.

 

[Laz]

Yay.

Another thread for the usual posters to rail about FP+ and tiers.

While you all are "crying in your tiers", I am laughing at all of those who are getting so worked up about it. My favorite line is "with tiering you can only do one headliner without waiting in a long standby line".

The simple fact is that, at least for now, with a minimum of planning you can enjoy both Soarin and Test Track or TSMM and RNRC without waiting in a long line for either.

Here is my actual experience from Sunday, December 29, during the heart of the Christmas season. This is a day on which Touring Plans predicted a crowd level of 10 for DHS.

We arrived at the park at about 7:20 for a scheduled 8 AM (non EMH) opening, expecting the park to actually open at about 7:45, which it did. There were about 10 people in front of us at the gate, so the predictions that FP+ would cause hordes of people to arrive an hour or more before opening did not materialize. A lot of people were behind us when the park did open.

When we got through the gate we walked briskly but safely toward TSMM (we passed the FP distribution with the early return times because we were satisfied riding once) and walked right on the ride and exited the building around 8 AM. We then walked directly to TOT where the return time for FPs was something like 8:10. In other words, had we been so inclined, we could have gotten a FP and then gotten another one within about 5 minutes. But, again, because we were satisfied riding TOT once that day, we walked in, were ushered right into the library, and were off the ride by about 8:20.

We then walked over to RNRC where the posted wait time was something like 30 minutes. That early in the day it is very possible that the standby wait wasn't that long. The day before we saw several instances early in the day where actual waits were much shorter than posted waits. Disney has always done this in a attempt to encourage some people to move on to something else. The FP return time was less than an hour out.

Again, we were satisfied riding RNRC once that day (we had FP+ for it on 2 other evenings on our 5 day trip) so we went into the single rider line and were on and off the ride by 8:40.

In other words, we did the 3 most popular attractions at DHS in less than an hour on one of the busiest days of the year without using one FP. We were then able to move on to the rest of the park while still holding our FP+ reservations at DAK for that afternoon.

If you can do this on a crowd level 10 day, I have very little doubt that you will also be able to do it on less crowded days, even when FP+ is available to everyone (and paper FPs are gone). If you have access to FP+, all you have to do is make a reservation for one and ride the other one at RD and you will be all set.

We never felt like we had to choose between headliners at any of the parks during our stay.

If your complaint is that it may be more difficult to ride certain headliners multiple times, that's a different issue.

Soon, everyone else will be following this plan and the early morning stand by times will sky rocket.

 

[Mad Hattered]

Yay.

Another thread for the usual posters to rail about...

I stopped reading about right there.

 

[DisneyDoc5]

Yay.

Another thread for the usual posters to rail about FP+ and tiers.

While you all are "crying in your tiers", I am laughing at all of those who are getting so worked up about it. My favorite line is "with tiering you can only do one headliner without waiting in a long standby line".

The simple fact is that, at least for now, with a minimum of planning you can enjoy both Soarin and Test Track or TSMM and RNRC without waiting in a long line for either.

Here is my actual experience from Sunday, December 29, during the heart of the Christmas season. This is a day on which Touring Plans predicted a crowd level of 10 for DHS.

We arrived at the park at about 7:20 for a scheduled 8 AM (non EMH) opening, expecting the park to actually open at about 7:45, which it did. There were about 10 people in front of us at the gate, so the predictions that FP+ would cause hordes of people to arrive an hour or more before opening did not materialize. A lot of people were behind us when the park did open.

When we got through the gate we walked briskly but safely toward TSMM (we passed the FP distribution with the early return times because we were satisfied riding once) and walked right on the ride and exited the building around 8 AM. We then walked directly to TOT where the return time for FPs was something like 8:10. In other words, had we been so inclined, we could have gotten a FP and then gotten another one within about 5 minutes. But, again, because we were satisfied riding TOT once that day, we walked in, were ushered right into the library, and were off the ride by about 8:20.

We then walked over to RNRC where the posted wait time was something like 30 minutes. That early in the day it is very possible that the standby wait wasn't that long. The day before we saw several instances early in the day where actual waits were much shorter than posted waits. Disney has always done this in a attempt to encourage some people to move on to something else. The FP return time was less than an hour out.

Again, we were satisfied riding RNRC once that day (we had FP+ for it on 2 other evenings on our 5 day trip) so we went into the single rider line and were on and off the ride by 8:40.

In other words, we did the 3 most popular attractions at DHS in less than an hour on one of the busiest days of the year without using one FP. We were then able to move on to the rest of the park while still holding our FP+ reservations at DAK for that afternoon.

If you can do this on a crowd level 10 day, I have very little doubt that you will also be able to do it on less crowded days, even when FP+ is available to everyone (and paper FPs are gone). If you have access to FP+, all you have to do is make a reservation for one and ride the other one at RD and you will be all set.

We never felt like we had to choose between headliners at any of the parks during our stay.

If your complaint is that it may be more difficult to ride certain headliners multiple times, that's a different issue.

Excellent, I agree if you are still able to be a rope drop, this isn't quite the end of the world that some are making it out to be, I don't love it, but it won't stop me from coming.

Quick question if I may.... so traditional fastpass (or fastpass- if you prefer the snappy title)...I thought this was done, but you reference it in your synopsis. Are they still allowing only off-site guests to use this, thus no onsite guests have the ability to 'double dipping' anymore? I would suspect if that is the case then the advantage one might see for those guests staying off-site getting to use the fp- system is off-set by less fp- being available? Sorry if this (surely) has been addressed elsewhere. I have long stopped reading fp threads, but the title of this (I did a dance to SHOUT at the MSU stadium in middle school!) caught my eye and all of witty humor sucked me in! Thanks!

 

[TDC Nala]

Traffic flow. There's only 2 "headliners" at Epcot and they can't take that kind of volume.

Doesn't bother me at all - Test Track kinda sucks since the refurb, and it has a single riders line anyway. My FP+ always goes for Soarin'.

DHS, you can always pick Tower of Terror in the second tier. Roller coaster has a single riders line - so I pick Toy Story Mania.

And most of the time I book them the same day - not ahead of time.

I can't say it's been bothersome to me in the least so far.

Are they still allowing only off-site guests to use this, thus no onsite guests have the ability to 'double dipping' anymore?

Only at Animal Kingdom - where no one is using FP- at all, onsite or offsite.

At the other parks FP- is still available. For how long, we don't know.

 

[wisblue]

But what about all those folks I've been hearing about all year who "can't" be at rope drop?

Yes, on the busiest days those folks would have gotten zero FPs for the busiest attractions. Now they can get one.

 

[Laketravis]

The simple fact is that, at least for now, with a minimum of planning you can enjoy both Soarin and Test Track or TSMM and RNRC without waiting in a long line for either.

We arrived at the park at about 7:20 for a scheduled 8 AM (non EMH) opening....

I'm guessing you had to get up at ... what? 5:30am? 6:00am? On a Sunday? I'm sure tons of people are going to do that, right? And maybe they will once FP+ is rolled out to EVERYBODY and more people believe that the best time to go is at RD so more people go at RD.....AT LEAST FOR NOW.

Yay.

Another thread for the usual posters to rail about FP+ and tiers.

And yet another opportunity for you to rail about how with a little bit of planning everything is just fine, right? AT LEAST FOR NOW.

I know you're proud that your daughter works at WDW and I'm sure it can have a little bit of influence on your point of view, but I've noticed that you've even started to concede a bit with statements like "AT LEAST FOR NOW".

"Another thread for the usual posters" - counting yourself, but how about being a little more accurate in your categorization by acknowledging that some of us also believe that any favorable conditions/times may only BE FOR NOW ???

 

[wisblue]

Excellent, I agree if you are still able to be a rope drop, this isn't quite the end of the world that some are making it out to be, I don't love it, but it won't stop me from coming.

Quick question if I may.... so traditional fastpass (or fastpass- if you prefer the snappy title)...I thought this was done, but you reference it in your synopsis. Are they still allowing only off-site guests to use this, thus no onsite guests have the ability to 'double dipping' anymore? I would suspect if that is the case then the advantage one might see for those guests staying off-site getting to use the fp- system is off-set by less fp- being available? Sorry if this (surely) has been addressed elsewhere. I have long stopped reading fp threads, but the title of this (I did a dance to SHOUT at the MSU stadium in middle school!) caught my eye and all of witty humor sucked me in! Thanks!

Short answer.

Paper FP is still available at MK, Epcot, and DHS but it probably won't be for long (see the thread about today's announcement).

Offsite guests and onsite guests (other than those staying at the All Stars and Pop Century) can get paper FPs at these parks. We were staying at SSR so we did have access to paper FPs.

At DAK, paper FP is gone, at least for now (and probably for good). Onsite guests can make FP+ reservations in advance at DAK and offsite guests can get their FP times at the park on the same day.

This could and probably will change soon.

 

[wisblue]

I stopped reading about right there.

That's OK.

My post was intended for people interested in what is actually happening and to give some comfort to less experienced guests scared off by some of the horror stories.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Sort of a side note, well I guess it actually is part of tiering in a sense...Anyway, I really am shocked that they have cut POP and All-stars out of the paper FPs for this long without taking any other resorts off. I didn't think Disney picked those two resorts because they were values, but now I guess I have to admit that they probably did. I think AoA got to keep it longer because it is priced higher than the other values.

 

[wisblue]

I'm guessing you had to get up at ... what? 5:30am? 6:00am? On a Sunday? I'm sure tons of people are going to do that, right? And maybe they will once FP+ is rolled out to EVERYBODY and more people believe that the best time to go is at RD so more people go at RD.....AT LEAST FOR NOW.




And yet another opportunity for you to rail about how with a little bit of planning everything is just fine, right? AT LEAST FOR NOW.

I know you're proud that your daughter works at WDW and I'm sure it can have a little bit of influence on your point of view, but I've noticed that you've even started to concede a bit with statements like "AT LEAST FOR NOW".

"Another thread for the usual posters" - counting yourself, but how about being a little more accurate in your categorization by acknowledging that some of us also believe that any favorable conditions/times may only BE FOR NOW ???

I should have you debate with the previous poster who said that once FP+ is rolled out everyone will do what we did. Apparently you disagree.

Getting to WDW early has ALWAYS been the recommended strategy, but a high percentage of people simply won't do it. You had to be at the park early if you wanted to get paper FPs for the most popular attractions too. Yes, I got up at 6 AM so I could get something to eat before going to the bus stop. But, that's about when I usually get up anyway. I got my rest later in the day when the multiple hour lines were forming at the major attractions.

Of course, I am saying "at least for now" because everything is in a state of flux. That is not any kind of a concession. In the same post I also expressed my opinion that this will be the case in the future too. You conveniently ignored that part of my post.

The greatest irony is for one of the proponents of how great the paper FP system was to talk about planning. Did it not take even more planning, including arriving at the park early during busy times, to crisscross the park and time FP return times to take maximum advantage of that system?

BTW, I object to your suggestion that the fact that my daughter has worked for WDW on the College Program and as a professional intern somehow makes my opinions and observations less valid.

 

[wisblue]

Soon, everyone else will be following this plan and the early morning stand by times will sky rocket.

If people were willing to get up early to maximize the number of rides they could do at WDW, they would have started doing it years ago.

If and when that day comes, I will deal with it.

 

[Laketravis]

The greatest irony is for one of the proponents of how great the paper FP system was to talk about planning. Did it not take even more planning, including arriving at the park early during busy times, to crisscross the park and time FP return times to take maximum advantage of that system?

I'd really appreciate it if you'd stop trying to label me one way or another. I'm neither a proponent nor an opponent, I'm simply participating in and reflecting on what the changes are and what they could mean in the future.

Did it take more or less planning? Did I plan at all? Geeee..... I don't know, here's a copy of my own itinerary for my recent 2+ week visit over a busy period as well (Thanksgiving week).

Please note the inclusion of FP+ reservations for each day. Not legacy FP, but FP+. As well as TSR's. As well as park hours and days we went to rope drop. Here's my evidence to you that it took much more planning with FP+ than we ever did with legacy FP.

You have a simplistic tendency of pointing out the obvious while ignoring the potential of pending changes and conditions. Of course you can show up at park opening on a Sunday and walk on a headliner if your among the first 20 people to enter the park. FOR NOW.

And I am not arguing with you whether that works FOR NOW. Just take a look at the "minimal amount" of planning we did for our two weeks. Did it work? You bet it did - but I also see changes coming that I know will minimize the advantages of a plan even to this extent - of which, and I'm sure you'll agree, most people will NOT spend this much time planning.....

So please stop labeling me, okay?

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[sixxmum]

Laketravis,

Nice planning and I love the spreadsheet!

 

[wisblue]

I'd really appreciate it if you'd stop trying to label me one way or another. I'm neither a proponent nor an opponent, I'm simply participating in and reflecting on what the changes are and what they could mean in the future.

Did it take more or less planning? Did I plan at all? Geeee..... I don't know, here's a copy of my own itinerary for my recent 2+ week visit over a busy period as well (Thanksgiving week).

Please note the inclusion of FP+ reservations for each day. Not legacy FP, but FP+. As well as TSR's. As well as park hours and days we went to rope drop. Here's my evidence to you that it took much more planning with FP+ than we ever did with legacy FP.

You have a simplistic tendency of pointing out the obvious while ignoring the potential of pending changes and conditions. Of course you can show up at park opening on a Sunday and walk on a headliner if your among the first 20 people to enter the park. FOR NOW.

And I am not arguing with you whether that works FOR NOW. Just take a look at the "minimal amount" of planning we did for our two weeks. Did it work? You bet it did - but I also see changes coming that I know will minimize the advantages of a plan even to this extent - of which, and I'm sure you'll agree, most people will NOT spend this much time planning.....

So please stop labeling me, okay?

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I won't respond because this is getting too personal for the general message boards.

 

[Laketravis]

I won't respond because this is getting too personal for the general message boards.

Let's compare notes in six months and see how it all turns out.

 

[wisblue]

Let's compare notes in six months and see how it all turns out.

That's fine. Now that my holiday trip is over my interest in this subject is going to drop dramatically. FP+ was definitely a positive for us on this trip and I'll worry about the next one when the time comes.

One prediction I will make is that anyone who can spend over 2 weeks at WDW in one trip, including 10 park days, and can plan ahead enough to make many ADRs and develop a spreadsheet like yours, will figure out some way to make any FP system work. It won't require anything near that level of planning to figure out how to experience Soarin and Test Track in one day, which was the point of this thread in the first place.

I think you would agree that your length of stay and amount of planning is not typical of the average WDW visitor.

 

[Silock]

Yay.

Another thread for the usual posters to rail about FP+ and tiers.

Nah, it's another thread for the apologists to come and laugh at all of us and tell us how FP+ is going to spare us all from any more Rebecca Black songs or bring Chris Farley back from the dead or cure cancer or whatever the talking point is for this week.

Look, it's an undeniable FACT that the new system makes it more difficult, nigh impossible, to ride the really good rides at the same rate that was possible in the past. That's fine for some people, but it is NOT for me. I'm paying the same for my ticket as everyone else, so if riding the rides is how I see fit to spend my time and is what makes it enjoyable for me, it's disingenuous to tell me that the new system won't significantly impact how I tour the parks. That's just not true.

And yes, I'm free to spend my vacation dollars elsewhere. However, I'm also free to tell the people who enjoy touring the parks like I did (whom I suspect number far more than others) why that style won't work any more and that I'm unhappy about it.

Not everyone is content to ride the headliners one time and then sit around on a park bench people watching or seeing Carousel of Progress ten times in a day because it "has no wait."

 

[wisblue]

Nah, it's another thread for the apologists to come and laugh at all of us and tell us how FP+ is going to spare us all from any more Rebecca Black songs or bring Chris Farley back from the dead or cure cancer or whatever the talking point is for this week.

Look, it's an undeniable FACT that the new system makes it more difficult, nigh impossible, to ride the really good rides at the same rate that was possible in the past. That's fine for some people, but it is NOT for me. I'm paying the same for my ticket as everyone else, so if riding the rides is how I see fit to spend my time and is what makes it enjoyable for me, it's disingenuous to tell me that the new system won't significantly impact how I tour the parks. That's just not true.

And yes, I'm free to spend my vacation dollars elsewhere. However, I'm also free to tell the people who enjoy touring the parks like I did (whom I suspect number far more than others) why that style won't work any more and that I'm unhappy about it.

Not everyone is content to ride the headliners one time and then sit around on a park bench people watching or seeing Carousel of Progress ten times in a day because it "has no wait."

Nobody is telling you how to enjoy your time at WDW. But, the original point of the thread was that tiering was forcing everyone to choose between Soarin and Test Track, which is true when it comes to getting FP+ reservations in one day.

My point is that, even with tiering, it should not be difficult for someone to experience both rides in one day, even on busy days.

There has never been any question that FP+ is going to be good for some people and not so good for others. And, people who liked to ride certain attractions multiple times in one day are among those who are likely to be unhappy with the new system.

I do have to disagree with your comment that people who want to ride certain things multiple times far outnumber those who are satisfied riding them once. The pure numbers on ride capacity and park attendance make it impossible for a majority (much less a large majority) of park guests to do these major attractions more than once.

 

[Silock]

I do have to disagree with your comment that people who want to ride certain things multiple times far outnumber those who are satisfied riding them once. The pure numbers on ride capacity and park attendance make it impossible for a majority (much less a large majority) of park guests to do these major attractions more than once.

You're right, as I worded that poorly. I didn't finish my thought. It should have read:

"which I suspect are more numerous than most people think"

Which is a bit different.

EDIT: Also, I hope you're right. Believe me, nothing would please me more than for this system to eventually work out in a way that pleases those who don't want to get up in the mornings and those of us that like to ride the headliners multiple times. That would be AWESOME! I just don't think it *can.* I also hope I still have access to legacy FP in Feb when I go, because there's no way I'm going to be happy if I don't get to ride Soarin' at least 4 times (maybe not all in the same day, though).