Tiered Benefits

[DopeyDave]

Will there be any "length of membership" consideration in tier calculations, or only based on points?

Do you mean to tell me that a member who purchased 500 points is a more loyal DVC member than me for owning 320 points for the past 19 yrs?

 

[Scott]

For some reason people forget DVC is a timeshare, they do not practice all the same tactics as other TS companies. However, in the end they are a TS and not sure why people think they will not operate like one. Marriott, Wyndham among others have some sort of preferential treatment to their developer purchased and higher "pts/weeks" owners.

. However, the base product is the base product and as much as they would like to they have not been able to take it away. What they can do is offer benefits that are not tied to the contract - I'm not exactly sure all the rules. But one could look at Wyndham VIP to look at the other end of the spectrum of what DVC could do - now if they do it is another conversation. Marriott is another (I don't know specifics and I'm not a Marriott owner) that I believe turned their TS ownership upside down.

If anyone bought DVC for any other reason than the guaranteed benefits in the contract.....well you made a mistake. If you bought resale for any other reason and without a thought that they can treat resale buyers differently then you also made a mistake. I bought both DVC direct and resale for different reasons but the main reason is what is in the contract...staying at Disney. Hey I'm all for benefits at a VIP level if I qualify, if I don't oh well so be it. I still have the contract to stay onsite at Disney. If you buy a certain amount of pts to get VIP benefits that is another mistake - these will not be guarenteed and subeject to change when they feel like it (such as the current perks).

I own significant resale pts with Wyndham and you want to talk about being treated like scum....well they do it even though I pay more MFs (due to size of my contracts) then most of their customers. However, I bought Wyn resales to stay at some very nice properties and have learned to navigate the system. If you understand the landscape Wyn resale is one of the best deals out there.

I doubt DVC will go to these extremes as other companies but I find it laughable at peoples' attitudes if some with 1000 pts gets something I don't and I own 160pts I'm done with Disney they OWE me. If this is you, I suggest you sell your DVC pts now and never get involved in TS ownership again. If they don't do it now remember they can always do it later if they want. This whole thread is based on speculation of a comment made at the annual meeting. However, if any of this speculation bothers you and nothing happens take this opportunity to sell now as this should be an eye opener of what DVC can do if they choose to take the path of others. If you are on the fence go to a Wyndham (which I believe is the largest TS company in the world BTW) presentation and then compare those flat out lies, deception and plain BS to DVC. DVC so far has been very straightforward been fair to everyone especially compared to their peers.

Ok I will get off my soap box and I'm sure there are many out there that would love to blow me up off it

I think it would be a major mistake for DVC to treat resale owners like 2nd class citizens...or "scum" as you put it. When a person stays at a Marriott or Wyndham property they may spend a few hundred bucks on property during a one week vacation. With DVC most of us are spending thousands of dollars on-site during a one week trip. It is true that we are locked into our rooms, but we can certainly make other choices regarding how we spend our money once in Florida. The better they make us feel as members (i.e., making us feel as though we part of the magic) the more willing (and happy) we are to let Mickey reach into our pockets until they are empty.

Secondly, the fact that DVC points retained a respectable resale value was actually an important variable in our decision to buy DVC. No, we don't plan to sell, but it was nice to know that the contract wasn't virtually worthless either.

Since we are speculating here...if i was a betting man, then i would bet that any tiered system will explictly target/punish the small DVC memberships of less than 100 points.


Scott

 

[OldsDr]

.....

Do you mean to tell me that a member who purchased 500 points is a more loyal DVC member than me for owning 320 points for the past 19 yrs?

Not at all. but that person is probably making more trips.

If I could afford 1000 points, I most likely would not own that many, because I do not want to go to WDW that often. The most I would ever really want is about 350. And if I could afford 1000 points I would be going other places choosing not to spend my money at disney. But if a company wants to reward somebody because they give them more buisness than another person I see nothing wrong with that. Again as long as the perks for the person who owns more points does not detract from the person who owns fewer.

 

[Chuck S]

I think it would be a major mistake for DVC to treat resale owners like 2nd class citizens...or "scum" as you put it. When a person stays at a Marriott or Wyndham property they may spend a few hundred bucks on property during a one week vacation. With DVC most of us are spending thousands of dollars on-site during a one week trip. It is true that we are locked into our rooms, but we can certainly make other choices regarding how we spend our money once in Florida. The better they make us feel as members (i.e., making us feel as though we part of the magic) the more willing (and happy) we are to let Mickey reach into our pockets until they are empty.

Secondly, the fact that DVC points retained a respectable resale value was actually an important variable in our decision to buy DVC. No, we don't plan to sell, but it was nice to know that the contract wasn't virtually worthless either.

Since we are speculating here...if i was a betting man, then i would bet that any tiered system will explictly target/punish the small DVC memberships of less than 100 points.


Scott

Remember that you are dealing with several related, yet legally separate, entities here. DVC (the membership/member services/accounting) is not supposed to make the Walt Disney Company their priority when making decisions affecting our membersip. DVD, the marketing and developer, is responsible to the Disney Company, and is suppossed to maximize profit.

And the Walt Disney Word company division is reposinsible to maximize profitability in the parks and resorts. The means of attains the goals for those three entitites is not always mutually inclusive. If DVC feels that rewarding those with higher points with special perks is good for the overall membership, they can do so. For instance, at Aulani, Vero and Hilton Head, there are no parks or real overall spending habits to consider at all. I can certainly see some type of rewards program being a benefit overall to original purchasers of those resorts...maybe DVD Marketing picking up the additional taxes for stays at Aulani if you own several hundred points there.

As I said, I really don't care what perks they want to give as loyalty rewards, as long as the general membership program and dues are not affected. I expect to get what DVC/DVD/Disney is obligated to in our contracts...anything else is gravy, and if someone else gets something free, great, as long as it doesn't affect my membership.

 

[Scott]

Remember that you are dealing with several related, yet legally separate, entities here. DVC (the membership/member services/accounting) is not supposed to make the Walt Disney Company their priority when making decisions affecting our membersip. DVD, the marketing and developer, is responsible to the Disney Company, and is suppossed to maximize profit.

And the Walt Disney Word company division is reposinsible to maximize profitability in the parks and resorts. The means of attains the goals for those three entitites is not always mutually inclusive. If DVC feels that rewarding those with higher points with special perks is good for the overall membership, they can do so. For instance, at Aulani, Vero and Hilton Head, there are no parks or real overall spending habits to consider at all. I can certainly see some type of rewards program being a benefit overall to original purchasers of those resorts...maybe DVD Marketing picking up the additional taxes for stays
at Aulani if you own several hundred points there.

As I said, I really don't care what perks they want to give as loyalty rewards, as long as the general membership program and dues are not affected. I expect to get what DVC/DVD/Disney is obligated to in our contracts...anything else is gravy, and if someone else gets something free, great, as long as it doesn't affect my membership.

Good point, Chuck. The distinction between DVC and the Disney Company often gets blurred in my mind.
Scott

 

[DougEMG]

Once I found out about Front of the line benefits for staying at a Universal hotel, it was easy to decide not to use DVC points to stay at DVC and commute to Universal. For that benefit alone, we are staying on property at Universal.

I'd love Fast passes at Disney as a DVC member. Like someone said earlier though, I have 655 points so I suspect the cutoff will be 675!

Same here. We are going to Orlando in Aug and staying onsite at Universal just for the front of the line pass. Wish Disney had the same thing.

 

[dizfan]

Why not have FP for a benefit. If you stay onsite at any of the Lowes hotels at Universal, everyone with a room key gets front of the line privileges. Does any one know the max guests staying at portofino, hard rock and the other hotel combined? This seems like a worthwhile perk as I stay at portofino for that perk and convenience.

I'm not opposed to FP for a benefit. However, just because it's good for DVC, does not mean the head of the Theme Parks would think it's in his divisions best interest.

If you're referring to Disney hotel guests getting the FP perk, extra magic hours are Disney's resort guest perk.

 

[dizfan]

Same here. We are going to Orlando in Aug and staying onsite at Universal just for the front of the line pass. Wish Disney had the same thing.

Unless something has suddenly changed, Disney's extra magic hours are exclusive to Disney resort guests.

 

[RobPickles]

Doesn’t this happen everywhere.....

They already got us to buy and now they need to squeeze those loyal members and make them consider to buy more points for perks they should have in the first place?

They still get 1000s and 1000s of people going every year to stay there who are not DVC. Make BEING a DVC member ITSELF the continued perk and not cheapen it by stressing members for the amount of points they have and what they get out of it if they buy more.

Treat those loyal members who keep coming back every year and spending their hard-earned money at Disney right and give them ALL the benefits, as opposed to the one-time family who comes because they are getting free dining or got some discount though some other service.

When they figure THAT out, that is when I will be happy.

 

[Chuck S]

They already got us to buy and now they need to squeeze those loyal members and make them consider to buy more points for perks they should have in the first place?

They still get 1000s and 1000s of people going every year to stay there who are not DVC. Make BEING a DVC member ITSELF the continued perk and not cheapen it by stressing members for the amount of points they have and what they get out of it if they buy more.

Treat those loyal members who keep coming back every year and spending their hard-earned money at Disney right and give them ALL the benefits, as opposed to the one-time family who comes because they are getting free dining or got some discount though some other service.

When they figure THAT out, that is when I will be happy.

Free dining is to fill an otherwise empty cash room. There is no need for Disney or DVC to fill a DVC room, the dues/maintenance and rental (purchase price) are pre-paid. Cost/benefits must be beneficial to both parties - Members and Disney. There is no benefit to Disney to give a lot of perks to the general DVC membership. Tiered perks based on points owned and where purchased would benefit both the purchaser of more points and Disney.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Will there be any "length of membership" consideration in tier calculations, or only based on points?

Do you mean to tell me that a member who purchased 500 points is a more loyal DVC member than me for owning 320 points for the past 19 yrs?

It's not a question of loyalty. It's a question of profitability.

 

[sean-1966]

They already got us to buy and now they need to squeeze those loyal members and make them consider to buy more points for perks they should have in the first place?

They still get 1000s and 1000s of people going every year to stay there who are not DVC. Make BEING a DVC member ITSELF the continued perk and not cheapen it by stressing members for the amount of points they have and what they get out of it if they buy more.

Treat those loyal members who keep coming back every year and spending their hard-earned money at Disney right and give them ALL the benefits, as opposed to the one-time family who comes because they are getting free dining or got some discount though some other service.

When they figure THAT out, that is when I will be happy.

I'm with you Rob...

 

[Brian Noble]

Do you mean to tell me that a member who purchased 500 points is a more loyal DVC member than me for owning 320 points for the past 19 yrs?

Well, if you define "loyal" as "profitable to the company", then yes.

And, that's all these "loyalty" programs are---a way to stimulate more spending. They aren't actually rewarding "loyalty", they are rewarding "profit".

But, it's worth remembering that we have no idea whether they will actually come through with anything, or what the program might look like. It's too early to get upset that you "only" have 320 points.

 

[tjkraz]

I'm probably just repeating what Brian, Chuck and others said but the harsh reality is Disney Vacation Development exists to sell new timeshare accommodations. We all have our own opinions on their prices, choice of destinations and other aspects, but Disney is going to set their own profitability expectations for the program. And if they cannot meet those goals, they will get out of the timeshare business.

Care to guess what member perks and resale values would look like if Disney decided to abandon the business altogether? (Hint: not good.)

This isn't about rewarding loyalty...at least not as I would define loyalty. It's about giving customers additional reasons to buy more points or to talk-up the program to others. It's further justification for current and potential customers to buy points retail instead of resale, or to add points at Aulani or National Harbor rather than buying Marriott points.

If you want to turn it into an "us" vs "them" discussion, I'm quite certain DVD is far more concerned about selling someone $20 - 30K worth of points at the Bay Lake Tower than they are about whether a 10% discount will prompt you to buy a Mickey t-shirt at the emporium.

 

[DVC SSR Owner]

I didn't realize Disney was selling points at national harbor. When was this?

 

[MELSMICE]

Will there be any "length of membership" consideration in tier calculations, or only based on points?

Do you mean to tell me that a member who purchased 500 points is a more loyal DVC member than me for owning 320 points for the past 19 yrs?

I wonder the same thing.

 

[DVC SSR Owner]

Maybe they would call the levels:
Bronze
Silver
Gold
Platinum

Change the color of the DVC membership cards and give different discounts, etc based on the card color.
Renters would not have membership cards. This would ensure that perks did not go to renters, then maybe the perks would seem more exclusive.

 

[vicki_c]

I didn't realize Disney was selling points at national harbor. When was this?

They are not - it was just mentioned in a future sense. They haven't even broken ground for the Disney resort there yet and I don't think there has been any confirmation that it will definitely be a DVC property.

 

[Dean]

Will there be any "length of membership" consideration in tier calculations, or only based on points?

Do you mean to tell me that a member who purchased 500 points is a more loyal DVC member than me for owning 320 points for the past 19 yrs?

NO matter what they call any possible program, the main goal will not be that of rewarding loyalty but of profit. That's true for FF and other points programs as well. As such, it's highly unlikely length of ownership by itself will factor in and it's possible that the reverse could be true. You might see something like "those who bought retail on or after X date qualify", I know of one incidence along those lines with such a program.

I think it would be a major mistake for DVC to treat resale owners like 2nd class citizens...or "scum" as you put it. When a person stays at a Marriott or Wyndham property they may spend a few hundred bucks on property during a one week vacation. With DVC most of us are spending thousands of dollars on-site during a one week trip. It is true that we are locked into our rooms, but we can certainly make other choices regarding how we spend our money once in Florida. The better they make us feel as members (i.e., making us feel as though we part of the magic) the more willing (and happy) we are to let Mickey reach into our pockets until they are empty.

Secondly, the fact that DVC points retained a respectable resale value was actually an important variable in our decision to buy DVC. No, we don't plan to sell, but it was nice to know that the contract wasn't virtually worthless either.

Since we are speculating here...if i was a betting man, then i would bet that any tiered system will explictly target/punish the small DVC memberships of less than 100 points.


Scott

I don't expect DVC to treat DVC members like second class citizens but "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". We've already seen member on DIS post they feel this way with other recent changes (reallocation, valet parking, etc). As noted, the ONLY guarantee is access to the home resort and secondarily, to the other "CLUB" resorts. They could take everything else away tomorrow and they could limit them to certain groups any way those so chose. IMO DVC has essentially given up on what the members think and given the nit picking and complaining we often see with no regard for the realities of a timeshare, it's hard to blame them. I'll cite the change in how requests are handled and the 2 years of reallocations as examples. Ultimately a given member has to decide whether they feel dumped upon just like one has to actually decide whether to be offended by a given action. For myself, I wouldn't feel like a second class citizen if they took ALL exchange options away and then added them back to a given VIP level but I bet many would. As long as I have the same reservation rights for my home resorts and other club resorts.

 

[UConnJack]

I agree DVC/DVD will do what they will do in order to maximize their profits, it is a business after all, and to a large degree I am OK with that. The coming and going of perks, reallocation of points, changes in request handling, etc. while an annoyance for some, doesn't really change the core of what the DVC membership provides.

However, if they make significant changes to the heart of what the DVC membership provides, and make some people's membership more "powerful" based on the number of points they have (e.g., tiered booking windows, blocked/preferred rooms, etc.) that's another ballgame entirely IMO. They do this, and I think they run the risk of making DVC less desirable.

I know the poll here is not necessarily representative of the entire DVC membership, but it suggests that about a 1/4 of the membership has over 500 points. If DVC does institute tiered booking, for example, and the remaining 3/4 of the membership find that they end up only being able to book at their home resort (at 11 months) or at SSR (at 7 months) because the >500 point crowd was able to book out all the other resorts at 8 months (some for speculative rentals too), there are going to be a lot of PO'ed members. Not just annoyed, but PO'ed, including myself. I know the POS would allow Disney to do this, but I think it would be bad business for them to do so.

Its getting tough for a lot of members to be a proponent of DVC as it is now, it would be almost impossible for me to be one if they go too far with a tiered system. I think there is a good chance that bad word of mouth could off-set any increased point sales DVC thinks it could make if they go too far with changes.