Thread gone way off topic! Please delete!!!

[sodaseller]

As for the Holiday, MLK represents a nonviolent solution to what has been termed this nation's original sin, there at its creation, and still not fully expunged. But you are only "indifferent" to the holiday if you indifferent to the sin, or even think its a venial sin at best. And I see that it is not just one poster so possessed, it is a literal Legion! Beware nearby swine - you're going for a swim

 

[DawnCt1]

This reaction to Carter's plainly mortal teachings reminds me of a similar reaction to similar teachings

Carter to Christ??? That's quite a stretch that I didn't think even YOU could make.

 

[sodaseller]

Carter to Christ??? That's quite a stretch that I didn't think even YOU could make.

It wasn't the speakers I was comparing, but rather the hearers. That's clear.

 

[Free4Life11]

Again, nope, I have no desire to fight to have it changed, I just think it was a mistake in the first place.

Oh, ok. Just curious, if we were only allowed one person who would you choose?

Honestly, I agree with you that a holiday isn't necessary to honor someone. I know for me, I just like the fact that I have a day off from school/work.

 

[shortbun]

Interesting note. I was riding to a meeting on a bus today with about 40 of my fellow bus drivers. Everyone in the bus but me was black. The discussion on the bus was about their outrage that President Bush(current) was allowed to speak at Mrs. King's funeral. They felt it was a huge disrespect to Mrs. King and the African American community at large. My friends agreed that George W. Bush has no idea about black americans today, their lives and feelings nor does he understand one iota about what MLK and his comrades went through or achieved. I sat quietly and listened. These were black men and women ranging from 26 to 65. It was an interesting conversation and I had nothing to add but I could feel the heat and passion as they embraced Coretta Scott King and wanted her to be honored. It was said that they had "no problem with Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton speaking." I found it comforting to be in the presence of these people and hear their emotion at the loss and remembrance of Dr. and Mrs. King.

 

[Galahad]

I guess I'll be contrarian here and say that I think the MLK holiday is very important. For the same reason that I'm glad there is a holiday honoring MLK, I think it's sad that we stopped honoring Lincoln separately. The fact the MLK and Lincoln's birthday are so close together could have been a great opportunity to talk about how far we've come had how far we have to go.

 

[sodaseller]

I guess I'll be contrarian here and say that I think the MLK holiday is very important. For the same reason that I'm glad there is a holiday honoring MLK, I think it's sad that we stopped honoring Lincoln separately. The fact the MLK and Lincoln's birthday are so close together could have been a great opportunity to talk about how far we've come had how far we have to go.

Agreed

 

[BelleMcNally]

It wasn't the speakers I was comparing, but rather the hearers. That's clear.

For what it's worth, I got it.

 

[Galahad]

Interesting note. I was riding to a meeting on a bus today with about 40 of my fellow bus drivers. Everyone in the bus but me was black. The discussion on the bus was about their outrage that President Bush(current) was allowed to speak at Mrs. King's funeral. They felt it was a huge disrespect to Mrs. King and the African American community at large. My friends agreed that George W. Bush has no idea about black americans today, their lives and feelings nor does he understand one iota about what MLK and his comrades went through or achieved. I sat quietly and listened. These were black men and women ranging from 26 to 65. It was an interesting conversation and I had nothing to add but I could feel the heat and passion as they embraced Coretta Scott King and wanted her to be honored. It was said that they had "no problem with Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton speaking." I found it comforting to be in the presence of these people and hear their emotion at the loss and remembrance of Dr. and Mrs. King.

It's kind of sad, IMO that marketing and posturing can lead large groups of people to believe things about somebody without any real evidence of that belief. That others (politicians, etc) will foster that belief for political gain is despicable. I know this is another minority opinion, but I think the friendship and affinity expressed between President Clinton and the current President Bush is real and has a basis in a shared purpose that partisans refuse to see. So many on the right still successfully foster among their own constituencies and deep hatred of President Clinton that is unsupportable by anyone rational.

 

[agnes!]

This reaction to Carter's plainly mortal teachings reminds me of a similar reaction to similar teachings

Mortal? Perhaps you meant plainly "moral"...

I have my own opinion about the various speakers at CSK's funeral, but I am with the poster who mentioned the family. The family has not said a word about being disappointed in who the speakers were or in what any of them said.

agnes!

 

[BuckNaked]

What, you want a "David Duke Day?"

Of course not, but why miss an opportunity to accuse someone of being a racist just because they don't agree with your POV, right?

But you are only "indifferent" to the holiday if you indifferent to the sin, or even think its a venial sin at best.

And yet another attempt to accuse those who disagree with your POV of racism. So anyone that doesn't think that Dr. King should have a holiday is now a supporter of slavery?

 

[wvrevy]

Brenda, I won't go so far as to say that anyone is a "supporter of slavery", but when the prevailing GOP opinion - and it is a very common thought among you and your preferred party - is that the black community only votes Democratic because of "handouts". If that isn't a racist opinion, then I'm sorry, but I don't know what would be.

But again, the thrashing of the right is hilarious, considering the political hay that Bush et al try to make out of soldiers dying and the deaths of 9/11. Besides, was anything they said untrue ? Were the King's not the subject of secret government surveillance? Was Dr. King not anti-war?

As for Carter being the "worst president of the 20th century", Dawn, might I suggest that you actually pick up a book now and then? One not written by some right-wing windbag? Maybe with a little history in it? As for being the "worst ex-president"...even if it were true, it wouldn't be for much longer. Assuming we make it to 2008 (still time for a war or two before then, right Georgie?), it's a pretty safe bet that Shrub will win that title, hands down.

 

[conciergekelly]

Had the speakers complimented Bush on issues of Katrina, health care,civil rights, etc. would they still be playing politics? It is only because some of you don't like what the speakers had to say, that you say they brought politics into it. Bush junior and senior were the only Republican speakers. Are the other speakers supose to not say things because the Bush family was in the room. The Dems just so happen to fight for the same issues as the Kings. The key here is they all were invited to speak. The Kings were a political family. What do you expect? Somehow I don't think that the family was offended.

 

[salmoneous]

I agree, I actually thought the political rhetoric was disrespectful to the King family.

For what it's worth, here's a eulogy MKL gave back in 1963. Given that he was one of these horrible disrepectful people who mentioned politics at a funeral, my guess is his family has no problem with the concept, and doesn't need a lot of folks tut-tutting them for not conducting themselves the way decent folks do...

This afternoon we gather in the quiet of this sanctuary to pay our last tribute of respect to these beautiful children of God. They entered the stage of history just a few years ago, and in the brief years that they were privileged to act on this mortal stage, they played their parts exceedingly well. Now the curtain falls; they move through the exit; the drama of their earthly life comes to a close. They are now committed back to that eternity from which they came.

These children-unoffending, innocent, and beautiful-were the victims of one of the most vicious and tragic crimes ever perpetrated against humanity.

And yet they died nobly. They are the martyred heroines of a holy crusade for freedom and human dignity. And so this afternoon in a real sense they have something to say to each of us in their death. They have something to say to every minister of the gospel who has remained silent behind the safe security of stained-glass windows. They have something to say to every politician [Audience:] (Yeah) who has fed his constituents with the stale bread of hatred and the spoiled meat of racism. They have something to say to a federal government that has compromised with the undemocratic practices of southern Dixiecrats (Yeah) and the blatant hypocrisy of right-wing northern Republicans. (Speak) They have something to say to every Negro (Yeah) who has passively accepted the evil system of segregation and who has stood on the sidelines in a mighty struggle for justice. They say to each of us, black and white alike, that we must substitute courage for caution. They say to us that we must be concerned not merely about who murdered them, but about the system, the way of life, the philosophy which produced the murderers. Their death says to us that we must work passionately and unrelentingly for the realization of the American dream

PS - Think what you like about the man, he gave a heck of a good speech.

 

[Galahad]

Were the King's not the subject of secret government surveillance?

Well sure. By the Kennedy administration.

 

[sodaseller]

For what it's worth, I got it.

Thanks

 

[CapeCodTenor]

it's a pretty safe bet that Shrub will win that title, hands down.

You know, I really want to know what is behind this vile hatered for Bush? Why people hate him so much?

 

[sodaseller]

Well sure. By the Kennedy administration.

The Kennedys were far from saints, but I don't think you could claim that Hoover was acting under their direction in this instance. Hoover's animus at MLK was driven in large part because he feared that the Kennedys were being too friendly, esp. RFK

 

[Galahad]

The Kennedys were far from saints, but I don't think you could claim that Hoover was acting under their direction in this instance. Hoover's animus at MLK was driven in large part because he feared that the Kennedys were being too friendly, esp. RFK

There are ample attributable quotes that the Kennedy's felt MLK was "a problem". I don't think you can easily expunge them of this either.

 

[wvrevy]

You know, I really want to know what is behind this vile hatered for Bush? Why people hate him so much?

There simply isn't enough time - and this probably isn't the place - to go into the reasons. Let it simply be stated that I think the man has been a miserable failure as a president. He failed to protect the country on 9/11. He sat there with a deer-in-the-headlights look on his face reading My Pet Goat after being told the country was under attack (in so many words). He's a coward who cares more for "security" than "freedom". He failed to finish a war on those that harbored the people that attacked us before lying us into a war that we didn't need and could be stuck in for a decade or so. I hold him directly responsible for all 2000+ American deaths that resulted from our invasion of Iraq.

I could go on for pages. The man is the worst president of my lifetime, and arguably the worst since the birth of this nation. He is simply a horrible failure who has done everything in his power to change or destroy everything that makes this nation great.