Thoughts on Rachel Elizabeth Seidel

[LuvOrlando]

First there was Rachel Dolezal & not there is this kook, Rachel Elizabeth Seidel, let's also consider the wakadoodle who married Baldwin.

I get being of mixed heritage and picking one part over another but that does not seem to be the story. What is this?

https://nypost.com/2023/03/01/raquel-saraswati-resigns-after-allegedly-faking-racial-identity/?utm_source=sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news_alert&utm_content=20230301?&utm_source=sailthru&lctg=6079ac787030294703932085&utm_term=NYP - News Alerts

https://apnews.com/article/8dd4919de8004b9a8c81e5f87ee11209

 

[tvguy]

Not familiar with Rachel Elizabeth Seidel. Rachel Dolezal was interesting to me because many say she was one of the most effective NAACP leaders in the nation.
But as someone who has no ethnic identify, that importance of that is foreign to me.

 

[LuvOrlando]

To move things properly it would seem an authentic voice representative of that situation would be super important.

What if the fakes get to move the needle in a way that doesn't benefit the people who are actually marginalized?

 

[barkley]

Not familiar with Rachel Elizabeth Seidel. Rachel Dolezal was interesting to me because many say she was one of the most effective NAACP leaders in the nation.
But as someone who has no ethnic identify, that importance of that is foreign to me.

rachel dolezal is local to me. this individual made horrific false police reports that took resources away from true crime victims, she took the public as well as private student's monies for courses she taught at our local university that were based on the false and fraudulent narrative she created about herself, she was removed from our local police oversight commission for accusations of revealing confidential information about people who made complaints against police, in comments allegedly made during public meetings while she served as a commissioner on the citizen police ombudsman commission. she and two other commissioners were also accused of creating an intimidating workplace environment. this is all in addition to subsequently pleading guilty of welfare fraud.

the bulk of these events occurred prior to her being exposed, and has brought tremendous embarrassment to our local naacp chapter, which rather than being known for it's tremendous efforts and accomplishments will forever be associated with this horrible chapter in it's history. rachel was only 'effective' in diminishing decades of hard work on the part of the local chapter, its members and supporters.

 

[tvguy]

rachel dolezal is local to me. this individual made horrific false police reports that took resources away from true crime victims, she took the public as well as private student's monies for courses she taught at our local university that were based on the false and fraudulent narrative she created about herself, she was removed from our local police oversight commission for accusations of revealing confidential information about people who made complaints against police, in comments allegedly made during public meetings while she served as a commissioner on the citizen police ombudsman commission. she and two other commissioners were also of creating an intimidating workplace environment. this is all in addition to subsequently being pleading guilty of welfare fraud.

the bulk of these events occurred prior to her being exposed, and has brought tremendous embarrassment to our local naacp chapter, which rather than being known for it's tremendous efforts and accomplishments will forever be associated with this horrible chapter in it's history. rachel was only 'effective' in diminishing decades of hard work on the part of the local chapter, its members and supporters.

Yup. She was being considered for a position with the National NAACP until it all hit the fan. Hid things well, for a while.

 

[Karin1984]

Isn't similar to Munchausen (by proxy), where people make themselves or others sick, so they can get attention and sympathy?

 

[tzolkin]

Isn't similar to Munchausen (by proxy), where people make themselves or others sick, so they can get attention and sympathy?

I don't know how much this is about attention and sympathy, but instead more about wanting (to a delusional level) to be part of a specific community-- to feel like they belong and have a shared history/connection. Rachel Dolezal had 4 (adopted) black siblings and was unofficially "adopted" by a black family herself in college. She has two black children and has been part of that community for a few decades. She described her upbringing as fairly abusive and was estranged from her biological parents (they're the ones who "outed" her).

We can't know what her true intentions were, but I do think she was just desperate to be a part of that community so over time she just leaned into people's assumptions and eventually got in too deep to feel like she could tell anyone the truth without being ostracized.

 

[barkley]

I don't know how much this is about attention and sympathy, but instead more about wanting (to a delusional level) to be part of a specific community-- to feel like they belong and have a shared history/connection. Rachel Dolezal had 4 (adopted) black siblings and was unofficially "adopted" by a black family herself in college. She has two black children and has been part of that community for a few decades. She described her upbringing as fairly abusive and was estranged from her biological parents (they're the ones who "outed" her).

We can't know what her true intentions were, but I do think she was just desperate to be a part of that community so over time she just leaned into people's assumptions and eventually got in too deep to feel like she could tell anyone the truth without being ostracized.

i wouldn't say her parents 'outed' her-some local reporters were doing an article on her b/c of the multiple hate crimes she was reporting to our local police (she had reported similar crimes in another nearby state when she lived there). they turned to her own public bios and articles she had written and published which included her identifying a specific man as her birth father. when they contacted that man he contradicted rachel's assertion that he was her father. the reporters dug some more and found a photo of her actual birth parents on the internet. they were contacted and answered questions honestly about the fact that they were her biological parents/provided the reporter with photos of rachel growing up.

i don't know what her deal is but i've wondered if financial gain wasn't a large part of it-she unsuccessfully sued howard university b/c she claimed she was discriminated against for being a white woman-claimed favoritism to black students for scholarships (though she had gotten at least one), for teaching assistant positions (she missed the filing deadlines and jobs were already filled), and for having her artwork removed from a student exhibition (she's since been publicly accused of plagiarism with her artwork so i don't know if that was the basis or not at that point). she just seems to want what she wants and goes about getting it in extreme ways.

until the seidel issue came up our local news has been gloriously devoid of any rachel news with the exception of a brief mention about her newest money making endeavor-her only fans page (hope she's reporting this income to dshs unlike when she got the big book deal).

 

[LuvOrlando]

Isn't similar to Munchausen (by proxy), where people make themselves or others sick, so they can get attention and sympathy?

Hmm, it is in the same crazy headspace of stealing compassion meant for others so I sort of agree.

 

[LuvOrlando]

I don't know how much this is about attention and sympathy, but instead more about wanting (to a delusional level) to be part of a specific community-- to feel like they belong and have a shared history/connection. Rachel Dolezal had 4 (adopted) black siblings and was unofficially "adopted" by a black family herself in college. She has two black children and has been part of that community for a few decades. She described her upbringing as fairly abusive and was estranged from her biological parents (they're the ones who "outed" her).

We can't know what her true intentions were, but I do think she was just desperate to be a part of that community so over time she just leaned into people's assumptions and eventually got in too deep to feel like she could tell anyone the truth without being ostracized.

But these people didn't just quietly slide into the community as oppressed humans did they? These particular cases sought out positions of authority and deemed themselves speakers for those without a voice in channels where they could harness leverage, deeply twisted to me.

 

[tzolkin]

But these people didn't just quietly slide into the community as oppressed humans did they? These particular cases sought out positions of authority and deemed themselves speakers for those without a voice in channels where they could harness leverage, deeply twisted to me.

Yes. Apologies if my post came across as defending these two particular individuals. I was really responding to the general question of "why do people do this" and giving a scenario of how I could understand someone slipping into it over time and then eventually being in too deep to tell the truth. I did use examples from Rachel Dolezal's life, but I was also talking more about how a person (in general) may fall into this without necessarily meaning ill.

Specifically for Dolezal, I do think how she came to pretend to be a black woman was something that she gradually slipped into over time and that her family life had an influence on it. For that part, I can feel some sympathy for a person that I think really did desperately want to be a part of a community.

However, what she did once she found herself there is a completely different story and you are absolutely correct. If she was really just there only because she wanted family/community, she would have just flown under the radar and lived her own little life without trying to be in the public eye and stirring up conflict.

I think I'm coming at it from a different perspective because this is a daily/constant thing with Native people, so it's not a new or unique thing to me. There's even an actual term for it-- Pretendian. There are websites and activism against some who are viewed like Dolezal as using it for status/personal gain, but there are also countless "fake-Indians" you interact with all the time-- some have been formally adopted into a tribe, some don't fit in anywhere else and want the community, some are idiots who just think it's "cool", some simply don't know better (maybe told for generations that their "great-great-grandma was a Cherokee princess"), etc.

Again, I'm not excusing it as being okay. Faking is certainly a problem, but I think it's more nuanced than just "they're all mentally ill and seeking attention".