those NOT vaccinating against H1N1 - tell me why

[monkeybug]

Well, for those who insist this is not a new vaccine, you are not 100% correct. It is new enough that clinical trials have been mandated, unlike the regular flu vaccine which falls under an umbrella allowing it to have more automatic approval each year.

DH works in the clinical trial buisness. h1n1 trials were bid for less than 3 months ago. The bidding process takes at minimum several weeks. It takes several more weeks to even set up a trial. The vaccine is just now being tested in a controlled environment. Due to the hysteria over h1n1, the vaccine is being rolled out with tacit approval, and they will recall if there turns out to be problems. Meanwhile, every person who gets this vaccine is acting as a guinea pig.

It will probably be fine, and may even be moderately effective (which is all the regular flu vaccine ever is). However, with his understanding of the test process, that is not a risk DH is comfortable with our family taking at this point.

Interestingly, we have also gotten some vaccinations that others find alarming, due to his "insider knowledge" of the extent of testing and the test results.

Frankly, I don't understand the intensity over whether or not someone else gets the h1n1 vaccine. This flu will most likely mutate over the next year, so it's not like we can erradicate it by everyone getting the vaccine. It's a personal decision, that should be based on the best knowledge available to each person and combined with their knowledge of how their family members usually react to this kind of drug. Yes, some people have died from h1n1. A lot more people die every year from regular flu. Do what you and your doctor decide is best for your family.

Maybe certain trials are just beginning, but I was on the waiting list (along with my kids) to be a part of the trial that ENDED here at the end of August/Beginning of September. I personally know people who participated. University of Maryland was just one of the facility's that participated in nation wide testing on adults and children, and those trials took place over the summer months.

 

[Darsa]

Originally Posted by Handbag Lady
I am not in the "at risk" category and we don't have children. We don't work with children.

We are not against vaccines at all, but we figured it was best to leave the few available to those who need it most. Had our doctor recommended it, we would have gotten them.

I have to just say that of all the reasons I have heard to not get vaccinated, this is the one I understand and appreciate the most.

Hey! I said (almost) the same thing!!

 

[mookie]

Well, for those who insist this is not a new vaccine, you are not 100% correct. It is new enough that clinical trials have been mandated, unlike the regular flu vaccine which falls under an umbrella allowing it to have more automatic approval each year.

DH works in the clinical trial buisness. h1n1 trials were bid for less than 3 months ago. The bidding process takes at minimum several weeks. It takes several more weeks to even set up a trial. The vaccine is just now being tested in a controlled environment. Due to the hysteria over h1n1, the vaccine is being rolled out with tacit approval, and they will recall if there turns out to be problems. Meanwhile, every person who gets this vaccine is acting as a guinea pig.

It will probably be fine, and may even be moderately effective (which is all the regular flu vaccine ever is). However, with his understanding of the test process, that is not a risk DH is comfortable with our family taking at this point.

Interestingly, we have also gotten some vaccinations that others find alarming, due to his "insider knowledge" of the extent of testing and the test results.

Frankly, I don't understand the intensity over whether or not someone else gets the h1n1 vaccine. This flu will most likely mutate over the next year, so it's not like we can erradicate it by everyone getting the vaccine. It's a personal decision, that should be based on the best knowledge available to each person and combined with their knowledge of how their family members usually react to this kind of drug. Yes, some people have died from h1n1. A lot more people die every year from regular flu. Do what you and your doctor decide is best for your family.

Quick question: one of the things that I have heard several times is that this vaccine was rolled out so quickly that it was done in large batches, instead of the single vials (I know some singles were produced, but the batches were also made), thus the reason for needing to put the mercury preserves in the larger batches. I have been trying to find info on that and can't...do you know if this is correct?

This is one of the reasons I am hesitant. It's not that in a single-dose the vaccine isn't safe, but that in the large batches, it's not exactly as safe as the single-doses. And given the fact that it's so hard to find the vax in the first place, it would annoy me to wait for 4 hours in a line only to find out I don't get a single-dose vax if this were indeed the case.

 

[monkeybug]

Hey! I said (almost) the same thing!!

Your right! You did
Sorry, I just quoted the first one I saw.
It is the most logical reason to not get the vaccine I've read so far, and I think it's nice of people to do that.

 

[allison443]

We are not getting the vaccine. First, I don't do shots. Secondly, the normal flu kills many more people in a year than the H1N1 and I don't get the regular flu shot. Third, there are too many stories of bad things happening to people that take the vaccine (like the girl who had to run or walk backwards to be able to talk). I don't want my family to end up like that. Fourth, there are many doctors that say to wash your hands not take the shot.

The girl you are referring to had the seasonal flu vaccine, not the H1N1 vaccine.

 

[monkeybug]

Quick question: one of the things that I have heard several times is that this vaccine was rolled out so quickly that it was done in large batches, instead of the single vials (I know some singles were produced, but the batches were also made), thus the reason for needing to put the mercury preserves in the larger batches. I have been trying to find info on that and can't...do you know if this is correct?

This is one of the reasons I am hesitant. It's not that in a single-dose the vaccine isn't safe, but that in the large batches, it's not exactly as safe as the single-doses. And given the fact that it's so hard to find the vax in the first place, it would annoy me to wait for 4 hours in a line only to find out I don't get a single-dose vax if this were indeed the case.

If you don't have any health risks you could get the mist. It does not have any preservatives, and is probably the closest thing to getting immunity by catching the flu, with out having to actually catch the flu.

 

[MizTink]

I haven't heard about this girl. Could you elaborate?

http://mj.933flz.com/pages/mainfeed.html?feed=204719&article=6221856

 

[mookie]

If you don't have any health risks you could get the mist. It does not have any preservatives, and is probably the closest thing to getting immunity by catching the flu, with out having to actually catch the flu.

I know - that's what I would LOVE to do...but our ds has asthma, so they would prefer that our whole family get the shot vs. the mist.

 

[kristilew]

Quick question: one of the things that I have heard several times is that this vaccine was rolled out so quickly that it was done in large batches, instead of the single vials (I know some singles were produced, but the batches were also made), thus the reason for needing to put the mercury preserves in the larger batches. I have been trying to find info on that and can't...do you know if this is correct?

I don't know the answer to this. I will ask tonight if DH has any insight. I too am hesitant about thermisol, though that is something I've developed from my own readings and not anything DH has ever opined on. (not that he's the end-all authority on this stuff, of course )

 

[maroo]

Secondly, the normal flu kills many more people in a year than the H1N1 and I don't get the regular flu shot.

H1N1 has certainly caused more pediatric deaths...already topping the highest ped deaths ever reported in one single flu season.

It is not hitting the older population, which accounts for a large percent of flu deaths per year.

Also...only 27 states are even REPORTING H1N1 flu deaths or hospitalizations. So the numbers we are seeing are off.

 

[allison443]

http://mj.933flz.com/pages/mainfeed.html?feed=204719&article=6221856

Again, just pointing out that this girl had the regular seasonal flu shot, not the H1N1 shot.

 

[Shmily1]

I haven't heard about this girl. Could you elaborate?

Absolutely...

http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/local/101509_celebs_reach_out_to_desiree_jennings_flu_shot_reaction

 

[monkeybug]

I know - that's what I would LOVE to do...but our ds has asthma, so they would prefer that our whole family get the shot vs. the mist.

You might want to question your Dr. a little further on that. My daughter was experiencing asthma like symptoms at the time the vaccine was just being released. I went home and read the info on the CDC website, and on the National allergy website, and I think the Mayo clinic website. Everything that I read said that the person with asthma shouldn't get the mist, but that family members could. Realistically your daughter is being exposed to much worse every day at school than any illness you might get with the mist.
I called our DR (who is actually a PA) and she agreed that my son and I should be fine to get the mist (and it might help prevent my daughter from getting sick until the shot is available) We did, and she is fine.
Everything I read said that only people who work with or care for people with severe immune issues should avoid the mist (like patients awaiting a bone marrow transplant)

 

[ColinCodyMom]

Quick question: one of the things that I have heard several times is that this vaccine was rolled out so quickly that it was done in large batches, instead of the single vials (I know some singles were produced, but the batches were also made), thus the reason for needing to put the mercury preserves in the larger batches. I have been trying to find info on that and can't...do you know if this is correct?

This is one of the reasons I am hesitant. It's not that in a single-dose the vaccine isn't safe, but that in the large batches, it's not exactly as safe as the single-doses. And given the fact that it's so hard to find the vax in the first place, it would annoy me to wait for 4 hours in a line only to find out I don't get a single-dose vax if this were indeed the case.

This is why I am on the fence as well. After trying for quite awhile today, I finally got ahold of my county health department. I asked them if any of their shots were thimerasol free and they told me they were not. So that is making an already hard decision even harder to make. That and the fact that their appointments are backed up through January.

 

[Geoff_M]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/21/cbsnews_investigates/main5404829.shtml

Interesting story, but I think they're working with out-dated data. From this chart from the CDC, something clearly changed in the world of flu bugs several weeks ago: http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/weeklyarchives2009-2010/picILI40.htm CBS says their data is from July!!!

 

[Geoff_M]

Well, for those who insist this is not a new vaccine, you are not 100% correct. It is new enough that clinical trials have been mandated, unlike the regular flu vaccine which falls under an umbrella allowing it to have more automatic approval each year.

Were those safety studies or efficacy studies??? I believe those were efficacy studies done to insure that the new master-seed would trigger a sufficient immune response (titer) in humans and they were not ordered because of safety concerns. I don't believe that the seasonal flu vaccine for 2009 required the creation of new master-seeds for the antigens.... but I could be wrong.

 

[Va-bear]

...why the hype over it? .... it just seems like there is a lot out there about this vaccine being "new".

I've decided not to get the vaccine; here are my personal reasons.
- I am not in the "at risk" categories (very young children or senior citizens).
- I'm also a bit nervous about the speed at which the vaccine was made available.
- I do not have any other serious health issues (bad asthma, lung problems, etc) that could turn into something worse if I do get the flu.

I think the reason for the hype can be attributed to several things:

1. This flu is VERY unique. It has effected groups that are usually not the high risk groups -the very young and very old are problems w/ the seasonal flu but with the H1N1 teens and young adults are being hard hit - not the norm... In fact, with H1N1 the elderly are NOT one of the priority groups.

2. The flu was not 'rushed' any more than any other seasons flu shot is rushed. Rushed to be ready for the EARLY flu season it presented? Yes. (Another 'odd' thing about it.... it effected folks during summer/early fall...not the norm). But, rushed in the sense of scientists suddenly coming up with new and 'strange' techniques to make it? No, they used the same techniques we've used successfully for decades.

3. Though it is hitting those w/ underlying illnesses hard, it also is taking the young and 'healthy'....also, not the norm and very scary for a lot of us who thought we didnt have to worry.

4. This pandemic seems to 'copy' many of the things that were seen with the pandemic of 1918. The fact that it was seen in the spring, came back stronger in the fall, and in fact, continued to be strong into 1919...all odd behavior for a flu and a pattern that seems to be presenting itself here.

So, in the end, I'd say the strangeness of this flu along w/a lot of misinformation is what's causing a lot of the hype.

 

[mookie]

You might want to question your Dr. a little further on that. My daughter was experiencing asthma like symptoms at the time the vaccine was just being released. I went home and read the info on the CDC website, and on the National allergy website, and I think the Mayo clinic website. Everything that I read said that the person with asthma shouldn't get the mist, but that family members could. Realistically your daughter is being exposed to much worse every day at school than any illness you might get with the mist.
I called our DR (who is actually a PA) and she agreed that my son and I should be fine to get the mist (and it might help prevent my daughter from getting sick until the shot is available) We did, and she is fine.
Everything I read said that only people who work with or care for people with severe immune issues should avoid the mist (like patients awaiting a bone marrow transplant)

Good info. I'm actually heading to the pedi today, after a month long wait for the regular flu shot. I'll take all these questions/comments to them and report back. They might also (hopefully) have more insight on their h1n1 vax stance, too, than they did a few weeks ago when I last talked to them about it.

 

[krcit]

Absolutely...

http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/local/101509_celebs_reach_out_to_desiree_jennings_flu_shot_reaction

That poor girl! I hope she gets better.

 

[Becky2005]

The pregnant female body is designed to not fight off illnesses or foreign bodies because otherwise it would be fighting to get rid of the fetus. Therefore, it will not fight off the flu (or H1N1)

This confuses me then -- wouldn't the shot be useless if that's the case? I thought the point of a vaccine is so that your body produces the antibodies to fight the disease. IF a pregnant body isn't going to produce antibodies in the first place, why the heck are you injecting yourself with something that is suppose to make you produce the antibodies? OR is the shot, the pre-made antibodies?

Now I'm completely confused with the above statement. I thought the whole point of vaccinations was so that your body would be exposed a bit to the disease & therefore make antibodies for such disease so that if you DID get the disease it would automatically fight it off. Obviously, I'm clueless then as to what the point of vaccines are if that is not the case. That's how I was always taught it.