This is why Washington is completely broken

[CowboyCO]

In last night's debate, Obama said he would save the average family $2,500 in insurance premiums with his new $50 billion health plan. OK sounds reasonable.

There are approximately 120 million families in America (300 million/2.5 avg family size)

OK $50 billion divided by 120 million in is $4,333 per family.

So Obama is proposing spending $50 billion to save American families $30 billion.

I've got a better idea. It's NOT YOUR MONEY!!!! Stop wasting it!!!

This TAX CUT for 95% of taxpayers. Well, 40% of that 95% don't pay income taxes at all. That 40% will get increased "tax credits" ie- free money from actual taxpayers. They will get even more money back than they paid in. That's not a tax cut. THAT'S CALLED WELFARE!

I've got a better idea. You want to give more free money to people who don't pay taxes-- STOP SPENDING SO MUCH MONEY! IT'S NOT YOUR MONEY!

Ok Ranr over, please move along. Nothing to see here...

 

[dejr_8]

Don't ever try to perform math on a democratic proposal cause the numbers just never work out.

 

[GeorgeG]

What used to be called "taxation without representation" has turned into taxation without responsible representation. Politicians and corporates executives alike are constantly rewarded for failure. Perhaps it's time the citizens got angry and held these incompetent idiots accountable.

 

[Geoff_M]

The race to give away Government funds (which come from us, BTW) has been breathtaking... This AM on NPR, I hear there is now clambering that the Feds should also purchase defaulted car loans!!!

It's times like these that I think of this quote:

"A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy...."

-Alexander Tytler

 

[FergieTCat]

Question -- if the government purchases defaulted loans and mortgages, who gets the cars and houses? Are they returned to the people who defaulted on the loans? If that's the case, shouldn't those people then be asked to repay the government?

I'm not trying to be facetious, just trying to understand.

 

[adkkev]

and the McCain HC plan will push my family into a higher tax bracket since the employer paid portion of my HC benefits are going to be added to our income ... and the $5k "credit" won't come to me, it'll go directly to the insurance companies. And the current portion of our HC that we pay is done "pre-tax" ... that will disappear ... no more "pre-tax" HC deductions.
Our tax bill will rise ... significantly.

Neither candidate's plan is viable right now ... the cost to the taxpayer is just too much.

 

[Geoff_M]

The government would at most be the lien holder for the property. If the owners continue to be in default, then the Government, just like a bank, could take action to claim the property and try to dispose of it and recoup the loan.

 

[Geoff_M]

and the $5k "credit" won't come to me, it'll go directly to the insurance companies.

Who in turn would provide you with health coverage. You make it sound like the insurers walk away chuckling and you get nothing in return.

I'm not saying McCain's plan doesn't have its own problems, but the spin against it is bothersome.

 

[bookgirl]

Don't ever try to perform math on a democratic proposal cause the numbers just never work out.

It never works out on either side, republicans can't do math either. Actually politicians can't do math......course most of them don't know much anyhow.....how about we declare chapter 13 for the country then just start over. Think Dave Ramsey would give the government a discount on a congressional course of Financial Peace.

 

[ntsammy5]

You slipped a decimal point - that's $416/family not $4,333.

 

[rayelias]

What used to be called "taxation without representation" has turned into taxation without responsible representation. Politicians and corporates executives alike are constantly rewarded for failure. Perhaps it's time the citizens got angry and held these incompetent idiots accountable.

For nearly half of Americans, it's representation without taxation.

How about everyone that is a citizen in this country contribute towards its operation? Seems fair to me. If you don't pay, you don't get a say in how everyone else's money is spent. Especially if/when the majority of people don't pay taxes - what's stopping them from strong-arming the minority of taxpayers into paying even more?

A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.
The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

• From bondage to spiritual faith;
• From spiritual faith to great courage;
• From courage to liberty;
• From liberty to abundance;
• From abundance to complacency;
• From complacency to apathy;
• From apathy to dependence;
• From dependence back into bondage.

Does this scenario sound eerily similar to the current situation in the US today?

IMHO, we are currently in the "apathy to dependence" stage and frighteningly close to the "dependence back to bondage" stage - especially listening to the Obama/Pelosi/Reid plans.

Unfortunately, most people vote for the candidate that is going to give the most to THEM, instead of the candidate that is best for the COUNTRY.


ETA: sorry Geoff - I posted before I read your post above. Kudos, though, for recognizing the situation.

 

[rayelias]

Question -- if the government purchases defaulted loans and mortgages, who gets the cars and houses? Are they returned to the people who defaulted on the loans? If that's the case, shouldn't those people then be asked to repay the government?

I'm not trying to be facetious, just trying to understand.

My best guess is that the government would allow those people to stay there at a dramatically reduced amount (you know, "from each according to his ability to each according to his needs").

Do you REALLY think the government will be throwing people out of their homes on the streets, even if they can't pay?!? They'll "restructure" the debt to what they can pay. And those the taxpayer will, of course, bear the burden of someone else's bad decision. Isn't that "fair"?!?

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Sorry, double posted!

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Here's what I don't understand about the McCain HC plan. Everyone get $5k credit toward health insurance. The average health coverage at my company runs approx. $12-$13k. So now I'm left holding the bag for the difference? And if not left holding the bag, I now have to pay taxes on the difference? How is this making my life better? How many employers will walk way from providing their employees with health coverage because the government has said it's okay? Sounds like the corporations keep getting richer and the employees keep getting poorer.

 

[just4today]

I'm so regretting not getting my McMansion and pimped out Navigator when I had the chance.

 

[Geoff_M]

Here's what I don't understand about the McCain HC plan. Everyone get $5k credit toward health insurance. The average health coverage at my company runs approx. $12-$13k. So now I'm left holding the bag for the difference? And if not left holding the bag, I now have to pay taxes on the difference? How is this making my life better? How many employers will walk way from providing their employees with health coverage because the government has said it's okay? Sounds like the corporations keep getting richer and the employees keep getting poorer.

FactCheck has a reasonably good article on the health care plan information storm that's raging: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/health_care_spin.html

To your questions... McCain's plan isn't to provide "free" healthcare, it's to make it affordable enough so that many people who cannot do so now will be able to purchase it with the credit added to the mix. As for the tax question, FactCheck says: "But for most Americans, the increased tax bill would be more than offset by McCain's tax credits."

Here's a key nugget from FactCheck regarding many of the contradictory evaluations of both plans:

The estimates may vary so widely because both candidates are vague about important details, such as the income levels at which subsidies would be offered or, in Obama's case, the penalty parents would pay for not insuring children. Analysts have had to make guesses about such details, and they also must make assumptions about what would induce individuals to buy coverage, or drive employers to drop it.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Thanks Geoff!

 

[DancingBear]

You slipped a decimal point - that's $416/family not $4,333.

Waiting for acknowledgment of this correction.

 

[BuckNaked]

and the McCain HC plan will push my family into a higher tax bracket since the employer paid portion of my HC benefits are going to be added to our income ... and the $5k "credit" won't come to me, it'll go directly to the insurance companies. And the current portion of our HC that we pay is done "pre-tax" ... that will disappear ... no more "pre-tax" HC deductions.
Our tax bill will rise ... significantly.

And as has been explained many times, the only time that the tax credit goes directly to the insurance company is to for insurance for those not covered at work. Those that already have insurance will be taxed on the benefits, but for all but the most expensive plans, the tax credit will more than cover the increased taxes, which means that the remaining credit comes directly off your tax bill.

And you do understand that the "higher tax bracket" rate is only charged on the amount over the the lower end of the bracket, right? It isn't charged on the entire income.

 

[sorul82?]

And as has been explained many times, the only time that the tax credit goes directly to the insurance company is to for insurance for those not covered at work. Those that already have insurance will be taxed on the benefits, but for all but the most expensive plans, the tax credit will more than cover the increased taxes, which means that the remaining credit comes directly off your tax bill.

And you do understand that the "higher tax bracket" rate is only charged on the amount over the the lower end of the bracket, right? It isn't charged on the entire income.

My DH's company pays 100% of our family policy. So, under McCain's plan, we will get a $5000 tax credit plus double our itemized deductions for children to $21,000. Sounds pretty darn awesome to me!