This is just so sad,,and makes me ask WHY would someone do this?? I don't call it 'playing'??

[kaytieeldr]

" Four simple words - caution these windows open - and we wouldn’t be talking about his. A sticker, a decal with the Royal Caribbean logo, anything, and Chloe is still with us.’ "

Any such sticker would not have been on an open window.

industry standard isn't synonymous with legally required.

Of course a deck open to the sky wouldn't have/need windows that open.

I hope he isn't sentenced to jail. I'm really sorry the little girl died. But please, they need to stop with the civil suit.

 

[nkereina]

Stickers to alert people to waist high open windows? What? People have to take some accountability, companies can't be expected to state the obvious and try to have the foresight of every possible danger that could potentially occur. Where would it end? Will there be signs hanging all over the ship saying "people may be carrying hot coffee, watch out for them or you might get burned" or "pools exist on this deck, watch where you walk so you don't drown". Its crazy.

All of this said, I don't necessarily think the grandfather should be jailed - I think it was an idiotic but honest mistake. I'm not sure what jailing him would do, he isn't due punishment or rehabilitation from malicious behavior.

 

[ronandannette]

Some new photos have been released as part of the lawsuit the family has against the cruise line. They were taken right after the accident.

Here is the exclusive article, and I will post the photos below it.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-Chloe-Wiegand-sue-Royal-Caribbean-death.html
The railing, the distance between the railing and the window, and the "evidence tent" in the area where Chloe fell:

The infamous wall of windows and the yellow evidence tape surrounding the area:

A closer view:

And a picture of the row of windows and railing on another RC ship that the lawyers say is almost identical to the one Chloe fell from. (Which I think may also be the case for the picture just above but it is not labeled that way in article.)

Inside the article are pictures of walls of windows (that don't open) on other cruise ships.

Let the disagreements resume!

For anyone who can’t tell, all of these pictures, with the exception of the last one, show the windows all being uniformly closed. If there was a picture showing some open and some closed it would be a much better illustration of how obvious it is when one is open. The last picture, well, is there anyone here viewing it that would honestly say they think it’s closed?

These pictures also (IMO) completely dispel the notion of this being a “children’s play area” as was the spin they initially used. I’m a little confused at how any of this helps their case.

 

[lostangel52577]

From the pictures it also appears you can clearly see the window track which would indicate to a normal person that the window is open. He’s going to pretty much have to argue he’s never seen a window before to explain why he didn’t know it was open.

Something I have wondered from the beginning, was the child in a wet bathing suit? The article says the grandfather brought her to play in the water play area which seems to imply yes she was in a slippery bathing suit, which makes the grandfather’s decisions even more careless.

 

[bbel]

The article states that the windows on anthem dont open, when they absolutely do, i used to stand next to it when I worked pool watch for the splash pad...

But at least it proves it wasnt in the middle of a 'children's play area' like they were first insisting. Funny how their story seems to change again once the photos are made available...

 

[bbel]

I also feel this should be included in the article...

Just to prove to those that still argue there shouldn't be these windows in ships that children are on...

 

[QueenIsabella]

I also feel this should be included in the article...

Just to prove to those that still argue there shouldn't be these windows in ships that children are on...

View attachment 458083

That photo pretty much sums it up, doesn't it? If I were on the jury, that would be all that I would need to find RCCL not guilty. My heart breaks for the family, it truly does, but they need a better outlet for their grief. Maybe find a way to honor and celebrate Chloe's life, not focus on her tragic death.

 

[sam_gordon]

Here's a question...

IF the GF is found guilty, does that absolve RCI? Likewise, if he's found NG, does that put the blame on RCI?

 

[mnrose]

Here's a question...

IF the GF is found guilty, does that absolve RCI? Likewise, if he's found NG, does that put the blame on RCI?

Burden of proof in criminal case is "beyond a reasonable doubt." If he's criminally convicted "beyond a reasonable doubt" of being criminally negligent, no way does the family recover in a civil case. If he's not convicted, it just means the state didn't meet that high burden of proof and RCI could STILL prevail in a civil case. Standard in Civil case is "more likely than not" that RCI was negligent, and to defend against that, they have to show that the grandfather is the cause, not them. Grandfather could STILL be the cause even if he's not criminally negligent. I hope that makes sense.

 

[fly girl]

On the Today Show this morning the reporter on the piece stated the family feels the videos (there are a few apparently) helps their case against RCI. Unfortunately I tried to find it online to share, but the video cuts that part of the conversation that occurred after the taped piece.

That surprised me. The video helps them? Hmmmm....

Seeing that the prosecution felt the video shows the grandpa is negligent, I was stunned by hearing that. And I guess the family has seen the video -- either that or they are listening to the lawyer. IDK. I just wish the family would find another way to remember their sweet daughter than filing this lawsuit.

 

[ronandannette]

I also feel this should be included in the article...

Just to prove to those that still argue there shouldn't be these windows in ships that children are on...

View attachment 458083

A picture is worth 1,000 words. The open window is clearly chest-high on an (average-looking) adult. Absolutely ZERO risk of a child, especially an infant like Chloe, going out the window under normal circumstances.

Burden of proof in criminal case is "beyond a reasonable doubt." If he's criminally convicted "beyond a reasonable doubt" of being criminally negligent, no way does the family recover in a civil case. If he's not convicted, it just means the state didn't meet that high burden of proof and RCI could STILL prevail in a civil case. Standard in Civil case is "more likely than not" that RCI was negligent, and to defend against that, they have to show that the grandfather is the cause, not them. Grandfather could STILL be the cause even if he's not criminally negligent. I hope that makes sense.

Grandfather is 100% the cause - 100%. As per the above picture, there is absolutely no physical way Chloe could have propelled herself out the open window. I don't wish to see the GF punished under the law - other than perhaps as an example, that would serve absolutely no one. OTOH, I hope RCCL brings every possible resource at their disposal to bear in raining down hell on the civil suit. As others have mentioned, best-case-scenario now is that the family withdraws the suit and retrenches into themselves to grieve and heal as time allows.

 

[emer95]

A picture is worth 1,000 words. The open window is clearly chest-high on an (average-looking) adult. Absolutely ZERO risk of a child, especially an infant like Chloe, going out the window under normal circumstances.

Grandfather is 100% the cause - 100%. As per the above picture, there is absolutely no physical way Chloe could have propelled herself out the open window. I don't wish to see the GF punished under the law - other than perhaps as an example, that would serve absolutely no one. OTOH, I hope RCCL brings every possible resource at their disposal to bear in raining down hell on the civil suit. As others have mentioned, best-case-scenario now is that the family withdraws the suit and retrenches into themselves to grieve and heal as time allows.

I completely agree with you. That picture speaks volumes. Even if that window had been sealed shut, it would be so dangerous to perch a baby at that height. Reckless, heartbreaking, rash decision to place her there.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I also feel this should be included in the article...

Daily Mail is a ((sensationalistic) tabloid that plays fast and loose with "reporting" to boost sales.

The captioner can't even tell the difference between wood and metal, in the picture of the railing. Or else they don't know the difference between a railing and a window frame.

 

[Imzadi]

Some new photos have been released as part of the lawsuit the family has against the cruise line. They were taken right after the accident.

Here is the exclusive article, and I will post the photos below it.

And a picture of the row of windows and railing on another RC ship that the lawyers say is almost identical to the one Chloe fell from. (Which I think may also be the case for the picture just above but it is not labeled that way in article.)

I want to point out something from the windows posted above.
I drew, in red, the approximate angle that Chloe's body would has to have to been pitched forward, from standing on the railing, to have "banged on the window," as the grandfather said he perched her up on the railing to do:

(I don't know the exact height of an 18 month old, so that is an approximation too.)

What IDIOT would perch a little girl, railing about 4 ft high, who'd HAVE to lean forward quite a ways, to bang on even a CLOSED window???

The grandfather had even said in an interview that Chloe couldn't reach forward, standing on the floor, to tap on the window. In the first picture, you can see there is a wide white window sash in front of the window at floor level. So, he picks her up, to lean her even MORE forward??? That doesn't make sense.

 

[KayaWildfire]

I want to point out something from the windows posted above.
I drew, in red, the approximate angle that Chloe's body would has to have to been pitched forward, from standing on the railing, to have "banged on the window," as the grandfather said he perched her up on the railing to do:

(I don't know the exact height of an 18 month old, so that is an approximation too.)

What IDIOT would perch a little girl, about 4 ft high, who'd HAVE to lean forward quite a ways, to bang on even a CLOSED window???

The grandfather had even said in an interview that Chloe couldn't reach forward, standing on the floor, to tap on the window. In the first picture, you can see there is a wide white window sash in front of the window at floor level. So, he picks her up, to lean her even MORE forward??? That doesn't make sense.

4 feet is quite optimistic, try more like three feet and likely less. Just based on people and their two year olds on SDMT which is 38 inches. But I totally agree. She would have to lean even further forward than you mentioned because she is so small.

 

[Imzadi]

4 feet is quite optimistic, try more like three feet and likely less. Just based on people and their two year olds on SDMT which is 38 inches. But I totally agree.

Whoops, I meant the railing being about 4 ft high. (I edited and added the word railing in my previous post.)

But, yeah, Chloe being shorter meant she had even shorter arms to do the banging.

 

[mummabear]

" Four simple words - caution these windows open - and we wouldn’t be talking about his. A sticker, a decal with the Royal Caribbean logo, anything, and Chloe is still with us.’ "

Any such sticker would not have been on an open window.

industry standard isn't synonymous with legally required.

Of course a deck open to the sky wouldn't have/need windows that open.

I hope he isn't sentenced to jail. I'm really sorry the little girl died. But please, they need to stop with the civil suit.

On top of the warnings already given, it seems those simple words didnt work.
I cant see people being impressed with their view being obstructed because someone didnt use common sense.

I also feel this should be included in the article...

Just to prove to those that still argue there shouldn't be these windows in ships that children are on...

View attachment 458083

This photo is all I need to see to absolve RCI from any responsibility

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Grandfather is being offered a plea deal:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-toddler-death-try-prove-color-blindness.html

 

[lifesavacation]

Grandfather is being offered a plea deal:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-toddler-death-try-prove-color-blindness.html

That’s a good deal. He should take it and spare his family from the ordeal of a trial.

 

[JaxDad]

That’s a good deal. He should take it and spare his family from the ordeal of a trial.

I agree, but they will need to consider how this affects their civil action.