Things not going well with the DDP changes

[skater]

So, were they really losing money on it? I'm just not sure I ever saw it as a give away program (with the exception of some of the huge entrees that were originally included). If they were truly losing money in which case, it seems like someone messed up big in the creation of the original DDP, I can agree that it would have been better for the average consumer for them to raise the price and leave in gratuities. Otherwise it sounds like their taking their ideas from politicians who raise taxes and convince some people its a good thing.

 

[hipchickie]

There is absolutely no way they were losing money. None.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I can't see the benefit of the regular DDP. The math for my family didn't work. We were basically, either breaking even or coming out the price of the snack. The value of the deluxe is much greater. Basically if you spend at least $20 per meal and $2 per snack, you will break even on the deluxe plan(adult).... and $4.50 per meal for a child plus the snacks. It is easy to spend more.

$60.00 -3 meals
3.90 -tax on meals
4.00 -2 snacks
2.00 -refillable mug, pro-rated over 6 days
-------
$69.90

$13.50
.88
4.00
2.00
--------
$20.38

 

[amwhitaker]

I think they should let you choose between appetizer OR dessert.

I hope Disney is listening!!

 

[skater]

And basically it comes down to this for me - if I have to work at it (i.e. only eat dinners and order mostly the more expensive entrees) to come out ahead or break even and the gratuity isn't included - then, its no longer convenient or a good value.

 

[Turtlegirl]

TLSnell, That's a great way of looking at it. AND You could easily spend $60 on just 2 meals-say lunch at Tony's Town Square and dinner at Hollywood Brown Derby so anything else is a bonus, really.

 

[wide awake]

I don't think they were losing money. I'm sure lots of people that bought the DDP didn't know how to maximize it...I know a family that used it but that ate at some of the cheapest TS, and didn't get the most expensive entrees...I check Allears...not to make note of the most expensive entrees, but to plan my eating so I'm not going to repeat meals...also I like to be careful w/ my calories so a high fat place one day means watching it for the next couple of days. We also drink alcohol, buy mineral water, etc...things we had to tip OOP for anyway, so the servers did well by us, even if they weren't given the full 18% of the tip.

 

[VLee]

Even though we enjoyed the old DDP, our trip agenda seem to revolve around dining, having to be somewhere to eat at a specific time, which was not always convenient.

On a couple of occasions our service was bad (the waitress knew she had a 18% tip wrapped up) and I realized I should have send a terrible steak back and would have if I was paying cash at that point in time.

We always had trouble using all of the CS meals, and usually spend the last day trying to use all the snack credits.

I have DDE this year,(I know 18% tip is included on this), also may work my dining times to get either AP or DVC discounts, if available and think that we will begin to SHARE table service meals and just pay cash. Will try to go at least busy times and not have to plan our day's agenda around eating. Oh yes, the mini-kitchen or full kitchen in the DVC units will be a big help in fixing a quick snack or baking a pizza...not really planning on cooking a meal.

At least now, when dining on my own dime,(exception if I use DDE), I will be in charge of the tips...and will not leave the 18% for poor or average service.

 

[TLSnell1981]

The restaurant division was losing money. This is why management demanded a change in the DDP.

 

[tloft]

The restaurant division was losing money. This is why management demanded a change in the DDP.

You are absolutely right and I am baffled at why people refuse to do the math and continue to be angry about the changes. It was such a good deal, and everyone is sad to see it go, because it did lose money. Using the wonderful 2007 dining spreadsheet circulating these boards, the average tables service meal was $37.38 and the average counter service meal was $12.11. The tax and tip on the TS would be $9.16, the tax on the CS would be $0.79. This is a total of $9.95. So before one penny has been applied to the cost of meals Disney has $29.04 to apply to your $49.49 in meals. This is a 42% discount at the average.

So if everyones orders had really worked out to the average price and people ate equally at all the restaurants the disney would only have given the 40% discount advertised. But we know full well that the average visitor did not buy prepaid dining and use the credits on average or low end price items. Plus add free dining for 4 full weeks of the year - and we know a majority of Disney resort guests took advantage of this plan during this time since the restaurants are more booked in September, still one of the slowest months of the year, than any other time of year.

Continuing to be upset in the changes to dining seems the same to me as if someone gets upset if Disney doesn't offer the 40% discount that is circulating right now again next year. The old DDP was a tremendous value and was very successfully used as a marketing tool. It has clearly served its usefulness in the eyes of the Disney execs and they made the changes they deemed necessary.

 

[Sarubo]

This is the very reason I'm glad we didn't purchase the DDP. Too many headaches! (Of course it may also have something to do with the fact that we have AP's and would have to purchase a useless admission ticket just to purchase it)

Disney did do wrong by everyone who purchased it for 2008 however, there should have been a mailing sent out explaining changes and allowing people to back out without a penalty. Still, I'd have to say caveat emptor.

And I can believe that they were losing money. From what I've seen and heard, people were paying about 35 bucks a day per person. And consuming about 90+ dollars worth of food. Plus the included tip was calculated on the price of the food ordered, not the price of the DDP. I'd be curious to see how that money was managed. How much of that 35 dollars do the restaurants actually see? The steak you ordered costs the restaurant the same whether you're on the DDP or not. So who makes up for the loss? Who pays the tip? Certainly that 35 dollars doesn't stretch very far in the whole scheme of things. I certainly see why they wanted to change the program.

 

[angelmav]

This is the very reason I'm glad we didn't purchase the DDP. Too many headaches! (Of course it may also have something to do with the fact that we have AP's and would have to purchase a useless admission ticket just to purchase it)

Disney did do wrong by everyone who purchased it for 2008 however, there should have been a mailing sent out explaining changes and allowing people to back out without a penalty. Still, I'd have to say caveat emptor.

And I can believe that they were losing money. From what I've seen and heard, people were paying about 35 bucks a day per person. And consuming about 90+ dollars worth of food. Plus the included tip was calculated on the price of the food ordered, not the price of the DDP. I'd be curious to see how that money was managed. How much of that 35 dollars do the restaurants actually see? The steak you ordered costs the restaurant the same whether you're on the DDP or not. So who makes up for the loss? Who pays the tip? Certainly that 35 dollars doesn't stretch very far in the whole scheme of things. I certainly see why they wanted to change the program.

Heres the thing, the food is only 90+ dollars by your calculations because thats how much they charge for it. Disney's true expenses are nowhere near that and I would venture that the plan was at worst break even for them if not slightly in their favor. However, Disney is a publicly traded company and its their obligation to do better in every division than 'break even or slightly ahead' and the plan had its intended effect of getting people back into their parks in a highly competitive environment. I get that too, but nobody was bankrupting Mickey Inc. under the old plan.
That said, given the state of affairs in the world today, its not out of the realm of possibility that they have mis-stepped badly with these changes and gone too far, too quickly.
It should be an interesting year!

 

[kaytieeldr]

angelmav, have we ever agreed on anything regarding the DDP before? Because I agree with your post! People are confusing "Disney's cost" with "retail price". IF Disney were reimbursing the restaurants at the menu price, then, yes, obviously they'd have been losing money. But they're not.

These changes enable Disney to KEEP more money, resulting in higher profits and, ultimately, happier shareholders.

 

[mommym]

Just wanted to add my own experience...Have done DDP twice on previous trips to the world. In Nov. 2007 booked a trip for Feb. 2008. I booked the DDP and there was no mention by the CM of any changes. I then came on the DIS to DVC site and just happened to see mention of the changes. I then went to WDW's official website to confirm and NO information I found mentioned this change-it still included all appetizer and gratuity. I did go to FAQ's and another page (sorry, can't remember which one) My point is, I went looking specifically for information on these changes on the official WDW site and couldn't find any information. Feel like Disney pulled a bait and switch. I should also add that I never received any mailing from Disney either.

 

[angelmav]

angelmav, have we ever agreed on anything regarding the DDP before? Because I agree with your post! People are confusing "Disney's cost" with "retail price". IF Disney were reimbursing the restaurants at the menu price, then, yes, obviously they'd have been losing money. But they're not.

These changes enable Disney to KEEP more money, resulting in higher profits and, ultimately, happier shareholders.

Theres a first time for everything I suppose!

 

[TDC Nala]

So, were they really losing money on it? I'm just not sure I ever saw it as a give away program (with the exception of some of the huge entrees that were originally included). If they were truly losing money in which case, it seems like someone messed up big in the creation of the original DDP, I can agree that it would have been better for the average consumer for them to raise the price and leave in gratuities. Otherwise it sounds like their taking their ideas from politicians who raise taxes and convince some people its a good thing.

I believe they vastly understimated the number of guests who would use the dining plan, who would return to WDW on a regular or semiregular basis in order to use the dining plan, and who would order the most expensive items they could find in the restaurants.

I remember they used to sell that Cinderella slipper dessert in CRT itself, as part of the dessert menu. When the dining plan came out, practically everyone who went in there ordered it. It was not meant to be a mass ordered item, as it takes time to make and the ingredients are expensive. That's why you now have to order one separately and ahead of time if you want one.

And everyone has to pay taxes. Not everyone has to buy the dining plan, or even travel to WDW.

 

[disneyfav4ever]

I was just looking at my 2008 Brinbaum's "official" guide for WDW, and the DDP info lists the 2007 info, saying that appetizers and tips are included with TS meals. There is also no mention of the deluxe plan. The 2008 Pass Porter, which is an "unofficial" guide however, is up to date.

 

[Tricia1972]

I have a fun story and I'd like to preface this with "It's NOT true! The CM was wrong"

In booking Crystal Palace for lunch Easter week (3/28) the CM informed me that at Crystal Palace the gratuity is included. I immediately questioned it, stating that I have a DDE card and will be charged the 18% gratuity. She again assured me, several different ways that this is NOT the case, gratuity is included at some locations and this is one of them.

My word of caution, and how it relates to the topic at hand, is that CM's absolutely do not know everything when it comes to Disney. If I were not a fanatic I would go to Crystal Palace fully expecting to not pay a gratuity. Once I got my bill with a gratuity on it I'd be torqued. Not screaming mad torqued, but you can bet that I'd talk to a manager. It'd be approximately $24 more than I had expected to pay for that meal.

Now in her defense, I made a reservation for Tony's and she did not inform me of this policy there. So I would expect to pay a gratuity at Tony's but not Crystal Palace.

I think we need to cut those who aren't as informed as we are a little slack. Why should the average planner question a CM? To the average planner the CM they talk to is Disney. Not everyone has the time, energy or desire to search independent websites to find out the 'real' story after receiving word directly from Disney. It is not the consumer's responsibility to dig and dig until they find out the real truth, after being presented information directly from the company.

 

[sandym718]

Heres the thing, the food is only 90+ dollars by your calculations because thats how much they charge for it. Disney's true expenses are nowhere near that and I would venture that the plan was at worst break even for them if not slightly in their favor. However, Disney is a publicly traded company and its their obligation to do better in every division than 'break even or slightly ahead' and the plan had its intended effect of getting people back into their parks in a highly competitive environment. I get that too, but nobody was bankrupting Mickey Inc. under the old plan.
That said, given the state of affairs in the world today, its not out of the realm of possibility that they have mis-stepped badly with these changes and gone too far, too quickly.
It should be an interesting year!

I agree, I think the better way to word it is that Disney was losing PROFIT due to the old DDP, not actually losing money.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Disney was paying tax and gratuity out of the $39.....tax and gratuity of the full price of the meal.....that's 24.5%. You also have to factor in the cost to run the restaurant...not just buy the food. I have no difficulty believing the restaurant division was losing money.