Things not going well with the DDP changes

[paulh]

i personly think disney had good meal plans in the past.
IMHO what caused them to alter it,was the reatcion to the free ddp when they introduced it.Folks became wise on how to get the best out of it.
When word spread that it was great value even if you paid for it and used every credit on it
I rember the bedlem 2 years ago when 2,000 people checked in at pop on the same day due to the free ddp
Last year they spread the free ddp about a bit so it wasnt as bad
As people got used to using the plan(we have paid as well as had it free,and used all credits every time)the bean counters realised it wasnt making as much as they hoped.
As a new round of contract negotiations were about to take place,disney realise they could realine the ddp
What they havent realised it the reluctance to tip,or to be told and anger of not having an app included
As someone elce steted they could have raised it by $5 kept it the same and we would all have been happy
I can see them changeing it but not this year but for next year
i would erge everyone who wants this to happen to contact disney(like i did last sept)as voice there concerns,they more who do this,the more likley they will change thinks
Paulh

 

[robinb]

I said it before, Ill say it again

Wow. It looks like you have quite the fan club, TLSnell1981 .

 

[Nancyg56]

I was not addressing the percentage...but how misleading the $2.15 per hour is. I get tired of the sympathy angle for a larger grat. One table per hour @ $50 comes out to $72 for an 8 hour shift. I think that would be pretty easy to make.

I haven't tipped 15%, except maybe at a buffet, in years. I'm sorry if you thought I was against tipping generously......I just feel it should be the guest's decision, based on the server's performance.

If you are going to try to figure out wages you might want to factor in, or out if you will, the amount the wait staff tip out to the others assisting them. When my DS worked at a resort restaurant the establishment had an auto grat of 18% added on to every check. That amount was not my son's money. Out of that money a % went to others. He earned a living wage but he did not make the sums of money that some here have determined servers earn.
I don't remember the amount that was taken out. I do know that I would never presume to know how much people earn based on my own calculations with amounts that I have decided to use.

 

[Allensfan]

Everyone should remember that the servers only have so much control. If someone is pleasant and providing the best service possible, even if things aren't perfect......they will still receive a generous tip from me.

I could not agree more

Bottom line, tipping 15-20% is standard. It is not the servers fault if your steak was cooked med and not med rare...they did not cook it...it is not their fault if your diet coke was less fizzy than you like or if your mashed potatoes were not creamy. They should smile, try and make you happy or take something back to the kitchen if it is not right. They are only servers after all, they serve food, that's it. Not miracle workers. I expect them to be kind and helpful and I tip, usually 20%...unless they are grumpy or unwilling to take care of problems.

 

[TLSnell1981]

If you are going to try to figure out wages you might want to factor in, or out if you will, the amount the wait staff tip out to the others assisting them. When my DS worked at a resort restaurant the establishment had an auto grat of 18% added on to every check. That amount was not my son's money. Out of that money a % went to others. He earned a living wage but he did not make the sums of money that some here have determined servers earn.
I don't remember the amount that was taken out. I do know that I would never presume to know how much people earn based on my own calculations with amounts that I have decided to use.

I understand about tipouts. It is a small percentage. I used to own a restaurant. I know what my employees made and we had no where near the volume or prices that WDW has. There have been numbers mentioned by Dis servers that at the minimum are more than double the low figure above. If they are so unhappy with their pay..I promise.. there are many who would love to to wait tables at WDW.

 

[DevilDuckie]

Here in the US servers make well below minimum wage and rely on tips to bring their wages up. I think their salary is about $2.15 per hour ...

This is not entirely correct. While SOME parts of the US allow such practices, other parts do not. Here in California a server makes $8.00 an hour (the state minimum wage) before tips. It is not a national standard to mistreat servers in such a heinous way.

That said, we still tip, because that's just how civilized people behave where I was raised. If you cannot afford to tip, you need to pick a less expensive restaurant.

 

[VacationDad]

Here in California a server makes $8.00 an hour (the state minimum wage) before tips. It is not a national standard to mistreat servers in such a heinous way.

Anyone else from California want to back that up? If that is the case, I have to imagine the restaurants have raised the meal prices to account for those wages.

So now the customer gets socked with high meal prices plus high gratuity requirements. Of course this is a State where people pay $500,000 for a fixer-upper starter home, so it doesn't surprise me.

 

[VacationDad]

Anyone else from California want to back that up? If that is the case, I have to imagine the restaurants have raised the meal prices to account for those wages.

So now the customer gets socked with high meal prices plus high gratuity requirements. Of course this is a State where people pay $500,000 for a fixer-upper starter home, so it doesn't surprise me.

Hmmm...maybe I will rescind these comments. This site seems to explain that an employer needs to make up the difference if a server does not earn at least minimum wage in tips anyway:

http://fairtip.org/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1000

 

[robinb]

This is not entirely correct. While SOME parts of the US allow such practices, other parts do not. Here in California a server makes $8.00 an hour (the state minimum wage) before tips. It is not a national standard to mistreat servers in such a heinous way.

Three cheers for California! Here is Wisconsin the minimum wage for servers is less than $3. I did look up the minimum wage for "tipped positions" in FL and it was $3.77. I thought I had read the $2.15 somewhere and I was wrong. I can admit that . I also recall the exact percentages of tip outs were recently listed on a thread (maybe even this one?). All I can remember is that bartender's were tipped out 10% of the alcohol receipts. I wish I could find that post as it was quite informative.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Three cheers for California! Here is Wisconsin the minimum wage for servers is less than $3. I did look up the minimum wage for "tipped positions" in FL and it was $3.77. I thought I had read the $2.15 somewhere and I was wrong. I can admit that . I also recall the exact percentages of tip outs were recently listed on a thread (maybe even this one?). All I can remember is that bartender's were tipped out 10% of the alcohol receipts. I wish I could find that post as it was quite informative.

You have read it here. The $2.15 figure is thrown around this board all the time.

 

[VacationDad]

Back to the original point of this thread...

I just looked through the 54 page 2008 Disney World information book that we got from our travel agent and on page 41 in bold it states:

Gratuities not included.

This is a booklet produced by the Walt Disney Travel Company.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Back to the original point of this thread...

I just looked through the 54 page 2008 Disney World information book that we got from our travel agent and on page 41 in bold it states:

Gratuities not included.

This is a booklet produced by the Walt Disney Travel Company.

...

Wow....page 41. That big of a change.... in a wildly, popular Disney program.....buried on page 41......and this is if you received this info book.

Even the IRS booklets are more user friendly.. They summarize the major changes from the year before in the beginning of the book.

 

[DevilDuckie]

Anyone else from California want to back that up? If that is the case, I have to imagine the restaurants have raised the meal prices to account for those wages.

So now the customer gets socked with high meal prices plus high gratuity requirements. Of course this is a State where people pay $500,000 for a fixer-upper starter home, so it doesn't surprise me.

If you doubt me, try:

http://www.dir.ca.gov/IWC/MinimumWageHistory.htm


There is no provision for paying below minimum wage to tipped positions.

 

[kstgelais4]

When I was a server in MA (about 5 years ago) The wage was 2.63. I'm guessing it is probably in the low 3's now.

 

[VacationDad]

...

Wow....page 41. That big of a change.... in a wildly, popular Disney program.....buried on page 41......and this is if you received this info book.

Even the IRS booklets are more user friendly.. They summarize the major changes from the year before in the beginning of the book.

Seriously TLSnell, how many people do you think really had no idea about this change to the DDP? Maybe it is the fact that before I spend one cent on anything I research it to death that makes me incredulous that anyone didn't know, but it still has to be a pretty small number. Not the legions of pitchfork and torch wielding mobs that Jim Hill would have you believe.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Seriously TLSnell, how many people do you think really had no idea about this change to the DDP? Maybe it is the fact that before I spend one cent on anything I research it to death that makes me incredulous that anyone didn't know, but it still has to be a pretty small number. Not the legions of pitchfork and torch wielding mobs that Jim Hill would have you believe.

I posted on this board about a year and a half ago....to rent DVC. I didn't get on the board again until I bought DVC....and started reading the threads pertaining to DVC. It was there I first learned of the changes. This was around October. I had the dining plan and wasn't told of the changes. After reading these boards and moaning and groaning...I decided to by a DDE card.....then I found out about those changes. (more moaning and groaning) I sat down did the math and decided on the deluxe.

I am sure most people that are shocked by the changes... just grin and bear it. I truly believe there are quite a few people that slipped through the cracks.

By the way, being DVC, I don't pay until I arrive.....so, I still haven't received anything about DDP.

 

[Uncleromulus]

I don't begrudge a good wage (tips included, as even minimum wage is hardly enough for what they have to put up with) for servers. Make it difficult for them to earn pretty good money and the servers we'll find in the restaurants will be simply going through the motions.
And we're not actually talking about California or Wisconsin here--it's WDW we're interested in. So--what is the EXACT wage for a server at WDW??
And as for "who knew what and when" about the DDP changes, sounds like Disney dropped the ball somewhat. But I still think some folks made little effort to check anything and just assumed too much.
As time goes by there should be far fewer folks who aren't informed about the new DDP. And then we'll find out if "gratuity shock" keeps them from participating, or if they participate and decide to save that money by stiffing the servers.

 

[hematite153]

Seriously TLSnell, how many people do you think really had no idea about this change to the DDP? Maybe it is the fact that before I spend one cent on anything I research it to death that makes me incredulous that anyone didn't know, but it still has to be a pretty small number. Not the legions of pitchfork and torch wielding mobs that Jim Hill would have you believe.

as for "who knew what and when" about the DDP changes, sounds like Disney dropped the ball somewhat. But I still think some folks made little effort to check anything and just assumed too much.

We have had at least two different people talk about ordering the disney planning DVD this fall (one in October and one in December, I believe) who said that even though they indicated they were planning a 2008 vacation they were sent the 2007 DVD that said, "all gratuities included".

Why are they being accused of not doing their research, or of assuming too much, when they trusted the information that Disney sent them about a 2008 Disney vacation?

Yes, those two people ended up here and learned of the changes later. But, do we really think it is inappropriate for people to plan their vacation by ordering and watching the planning DVD? There must be hundreds (if not thousands) of people who plan their wdw vacations this way every year.

I know about the changes from reading the disboards and allears. When I booked the free-dining bounceback I was told about the changes (even though I was booking deluxe). But, we recently had the DDP added to our Jan vacation because of a booking error (by disney) and our willingness to switch resorts to help them out. The CM said, "you've used the DDP before?" I said, "yes" and we moved on from there. There was no further discussion of the details of the plan.

I, and others, have said that we have not usually received any literature or brochures from disney when we've booked directly through them.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you. I think that Disney has a responsibility to provide better information when they make changes of this magnitude.

When they changed to the MYW tickets there was SO much information that even though I barely knew anything about Disney at the time, I heard all about the ticket changes. I think that Disney didn't want the information to get out as quickly this time.

 

[skater]

ITA with hematite - I don't think Disney placed a reasonable amount of effort in getting the word out.

 

[BAST]

For what it is worth - when I booked my Aug trip through WDW yesterday, the CM did point out the no tip/ No app. changes to the DDP (I did not really care since I got 40% off my room, and my DD9 will turn 10 at WDW but still be considered a child for the whole trip on the DDP).