Things not going well with the DDP changes

[TLSnell1981]

Did he read the material he was given when he checked into his resort? I find it hard to believe someone would not know what's included before heading to the restaurant.

For all those who didn't know about the changes, how did you know which restaurants were included in the plan? How did you know you needed to make ADRs before your trip?

How did you find out about the park hours, EMHs...

Do you REALLY read all the "stuff" they give you at check-in? I know I stick it in a bag and head to the park.

Believe it or not, some people don't know to make ADRs, therefore, no need to even know what restaurants are included. I have read posts where people automatically think ALL Disney restaurants are on the DDP.

Way before I knew about these boards, I had a great CM or two, that gave me a wealth of info about ADRs. I have NEVER looked at a DDP brochure until the last few months.....and YES...I have used the DDP and other dining packages at Disney in the past. I call to make ADRs and if asked, told them I was on a plan.

 

[LSchrow]

I don't think a letter from Disney will help because I don't think most families are used to going out to eat at a restaurant where entrees cost 25-30$, and then ordering drinks, appetizers, and desserts for the whole family - and THEN paying a 20% tip on the 150$-200$ +++ bill.

I can imagine that a family that saved and paid in advance for a 7 night MYW package would be very stressed to get a bill for a 30-40$ gratuity that first night - multiply that by 7 and you just added 200-300$ onto your OOP expenses. Nobody wants an unexpected expense to hit them on vacation.

exactly why letting them know in advance would alleviate that: they would know in advance, & could adjust their plans accordingly.
if they don't have a car, there are some excellent CS in WDW, none of which involves a tip (tho we do tip the "bussers", but that's our preference ).
it appears that those who opted for the deluxe plan did receive info tho....

btw, we are using the 2008 DDP (gosh, i feel like i should hang my head in shame! lol). we've used the DDP repeatedly in the past, & enjoyed the way it simplified our vacations. sadly tho, we did see quite a bit of the "squeeze every penny" mentality (especially when a few of our dates crossed into the "free dining" period ) ~ yelling b/c they couldn't get a speciality drink, proudly announcing that they used their kids credits for adult meals (before the seperation of TS), throwing fits when they couldn't get the filet minon with a child's credit, adding "phantom guests" for extra credits........
unfortunately, changes had to occur to keep the DDP alive, but as long as it fits into our (relaxed ) vacationing style, we will continue to opt for it (since it is, as it was, an option).

 

[TLSnell1981]

I remember when the current DDP first came out. We were "tutored" by the CMs on how to get the most "bang" for our buck. Kids want adult TS, no problem, the credits aren't separate. We walk in to get snacks on MS and were told how to buy lunch with snack credits. We never knew this wasn't normal because it was Disney employees giving us the info.....unsolicited!

 

[disneyjunkie]

Do you REALLY read all the "stuff" they give you at check-in? I know I stick it in a bag and head to the park.

I read the times guide right away. The rest gets tossed to side until later.

However, I made sure to read the dining plan booklet ASAP during our last trip. The plan was new and I wanted to be sure I understood how it worked.

 

[soonerlpn]

I understand the online ressies...but when I booked through wdw on the phone the CM reiterated three times that the dining plan had changed and tip and appetizers were no longer included.

 

[KelsiesMommy]

Can anybody answer my question--do you actually receive information about the 2008 DDP after you buy it??
What I'm trying to establish is if all of those complaining were actually given wrong or erroneous information, or were simply lazy and didn't check what WAS given to them. Or worse, well knew the new policy and simply decided to save even MORE $$$ by not tipping. And cover that up by displays of mock outrage over the new policy.

I wasn't given any information about the Plan- this is my first trip, so no previous expectations, and since I'm a well informed person and have done my research (here and TGM) I'm well aware of the DDP for 2008. I plan on bringing cash for each meal and leaving our tip this way. DH however is not a huge tipper, so unfortunately, he will leave likely a max of 15%- in this case, the servers were better off with tip included, as I bet MANY people will not leave 18% if they're not accustomed to tipping

 

[angelmav]

I read the times guide right away. The rest gets tossed to side until later.

However, I made sure to read the dining plan booklet ASAP during our last trip. The plan was new and I wanted to be sure I understood how it worked.

But again, you knew to check, I think its being a bit harsh to 'expect' others to do so, especially those that had some idea on how it worked the week prior. I do see how many of those there now deserve a pass on this. I also think there will be many a cancellation once this info gets out the way it should have from the beginning (unless Disney axes the plan and goes in another direction altogether).

 

[robinb]

Yes...average prices of what? The meals themselves (without DDP) or the meals that were charged to the DDP's? What I see is that Disney lowered the prices of their meals at the different restaurants, to compensate for the price change.

The averages were calculated by adding up all the items in a specific category for a specific restaurant and then dividing by the number of items in that category. So, if you look at the Coral Reef in 2007 the average price for a full meal on the DDP (avg appetizer + avg entree + avg dessert + avg drink + tax + 18% gratuity) was $52.35. In 2008 the average price for a full meal on the DDP (avg entree + avg dessert + avg drink + tax) was $34.72. That is a loss of $17.63 between the 2007 and 2008 plans.

The 2008 plan is in the right columns and the 2007 plan is in the left columns. Disney did not lower prices, but raised them. Sorry it was confusing.

 

[Krmrr]

Let's remember that some people DO know about making ADR's and they made them last JULY way before the dining plan was changed. The CM had nothing to tell them. People who have gone to WDW for the past two years in January using the DPP and not being on this board, would have no clue as to the changes. "Oops, what's this $24 charge for our shrimp cocktails and $38 for tips. Change in plan, what change. This never happened in the past."

As to the handouts, we were late getting in the last time, we checked in, got our cards, and headed straight out to La Boma. I didn't even know which building our room was in until after dinner.

Have a GREAT YEAR!

 

[Krmrr]

Never under estimate an American's ability to ignore the truth and go on wishes.

 

[byoung]

How sad . I just can't understand that even though you are angry about something, that people will yell and hollar. I would just quietly take it up with a manager, not take it out on the poor waitstaff Now, I have to admit, that central reservations never told me anything about it either, but since I spend so much time on the Dis boards, I knew from the start. I'll bet the unexpected tip is cutting into peoples budget that wasn't planned for right now

By doing all the yelling and screaming Disney gives in to them, to me this is wrong.

 

[2Princes2Princesses]

I have DVC. We can not pay for the DDP until check-in. I haven't received anything. Thank heavens for the DISboards!!

Us too. We have the basic DDP for May and October and the deluxe DDP for July.

I have recieved nothing in regards to the plan.

 

[Colleen27]

Let's remember that some people DO know about making ADR's and they made them last JULY way before the dining plan was changed. The CM had nothing to tell them. People who have gone to WDW for the past two years in January using the DPP and not being on this board, would have no clue as to the changes. "Oops, what's this $24 charge for our shrimp cocktails and $38 for tips. Change in plan, what change. This never happened in the past."

The information about the change was there on the Disney site before those people could book packages, though. Sure, I made my ADRs at 180 out, in July, but the package information wasn't released until later and the tip and appetizer exclusions have been noted on the standard plan brochure since DIsney announced the 2008 plans.

 

[angelmav]

The information about the change was there on the Disney site before those people could book packages, though. Sure, I made my ADRs at 180 out, in July, but the package information wasn't released until later and the tip and appetizer exclusions have been noted on the standard plan brochure since DIsney announced the 2008 plans.

Yes but their own site does mention that tax and gratuity are included where applicable, what 'they mean' is the three dinner shows, but this is still being presented in a way that makes people think there getting something there not. Its not as if there was a dramatic change in price (would you even notice the $1 difference?), so no real alarm bells there.

 

[TLSnell1981]

By doing all the yelling and screaming Disney gives in to them, to me this is wrong.

This is wrong. There are reports of security being called to remove patrons. Guests are complaining to the managers and getting ZERO results.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Why? The restaurant managers are the one that wanted to make these changes.

No. The DISNEY Managers - i.e. ManageMENT - wanted the changes. The restaurant managers did not.
Reasonably - why would any restaurants manager want, promote, or advocate ANY change that could potentially be detrimental to their excellent wait staff?

Then they get the grat bill. I imagine this is part of the issue here. Not everyone reads the DIS .

If it's just John and Sally, or even them and their three kids, they will not get a grat BILL.

I, too, feel sorry for the waiters. Yes, food management wanted this change. Why? So they could cut their losses.

I disagree with the 'Disney is losing money on the Dining Plan' theory (not arguing with the poster I quote, simply using the quote as a jumping-off point ). Disney Management has simply determined that they can spend less of their own money subsidizing the Dining Plan. High estimate: I can get filet mignon at a butcher shop with a good reputation (and, okay, they deal in volume since it's part of a steak house) for $8 a pound. Le Cellier sells a seven ounce filet, which means they get two steaks per pound, for a likely cost of well under the $4 each I would pay. They charge $28 for a steak. Now, I realize there's a lot more involved - other food, china/silverware, cloth goods, wages, utilities... but no, even when Disney was covering the gratuity, they weren't losing money.

... unless it's called a "service charge" and you dine at Disney.

And wouldn't it be great if Disney would just cowboy up and start calling it what it is?

 

[TLSnell1981]

The restaurant managers know they have to make a profit. I think that would trump almost everything else.

 

[solgent]

The averages were calculated by adding up all the items in a specific category for a specific restaurant and then dividing by the number of items in that category. So, if you look at the Coral Reef in 2007 the average price for a full meal on the DDP (avg appetizer + avg entree + avg dessert + avg drink + tax + 18% gratuity) was $52.35. In 2008 the average price for a full meal on the DDP (avg entree + avg dessert + avg drink + tax) was $34.72. That is a loss of $17.63 between the 2007 and 2008 plans.

The 2008 plan is in the right columns and the 2007 plan is in the left columns.

Your spreadsheet is very interesting. Really shows how the dollar value of the plan has decreased. By looking at what you calculated for the restaurants we're interested in, it's easy to see that our family is better off paying out of pocket. Thanks for posting it.

 

[tloft]

High estimate: I can get filet mignon at a butcher shop with a good reputation (and, okay, they deal in volume since it's part of a steak house) for $8 a pound.

This is the kind of presumption that can make owning and running a restaurant so exasperating when dealing with the public. Frontline wholesale pricing from Sysco (Disney's provider) for USDA Choice Angus Whole Loin today is $13.53/lb. Your high estimate is $5.53 short of reality. This is for a Choice whole loin. You will lose at least 10% to trimming which runs your cost closer to $14.86/lb. Additionally, any reputable steak house should not be serving Choice - but USDA Prime. USDA Prime is going for $16.41/lb for whole loins in 60 lb cases. Again, after trimming, you are pushing $18/lb. No one, anywhere in this country, is paying $8/lb for a prepared USDA Choice or better filet mignon. This is frontline pricing but discounts on beef are not very large these days. The biggest and best customers might be able to swing 20 - 30% off under contract sales. If someone is really willing to sell you filet for that price invest in a freezer and fill it up. There are very few indications that beef prices will come down anytime in the near future.

So to reverse the argument. The old DDP cost $37.99 per adult. The average table service meal cost approximately $40. An 18% gratuity was being paid to the servers based on actual menu prices (Every single server in 22 days over 3 trips using the DDP confirmed that they were paid in full based on the menu and they would only have had motive to tell me otherwise) would put average gratuity at $7.20. State sales tax would run 6.5% and would would be an additional $2.40 for a total of $9.60. Before one dime has been applied to the cost of the meal the money Disney management has to work with to offset the cost of your DDP food purchases has been reduced to $28.39. Thats $28.39 to cover an average of $56 a day in food spending per adult credit.

No one with any credibility has posted anything indicating how disney actually allocated funds to the restaurants. The objective and fair way to the restaurant managers would have been for the restaurants to be reimbursed in full and the losses absorbed by a promotional or advertising account. This would have allowed the profitability of individual restaurants to be measured as accurately as always while fixing a specific cost to operating the dining plan. However, I'm sure this is not how it was done and restaurants received a pro rata per DDP credit redeemed. Now, restaurants that have normally run at astronomical 80%+ profitabilities are breaking even or eeking out meager profits. And while it is no fault of theirs, I'm sure managers are being put through the ringer as a result. While the larger Disney company nets the same amount of money, individual managers are still held accountable for their divisions.

In my three DDP trips my total discounts ran well over 50% each time. Being in the business it was easy to see that these kind of discounts were unstainable for the long run - which is why we packed as many trips in as we could.

 

[tloft]

High estimate: I can get filet mignon at a butcher shop with a good reputation (and, okay, they deal in volume since it's part of a steak house) for $8 a pound.

This is the kind of presumption that can make owning and running a restaurant so exasperating when dealing with the public. Frontline wholesale pricing from Sysco (Disney's provider) for USDA Choice Angus Whole Loin today is $13.53/lb. Your high estimate is $5.53 short of reality. This is for a Choice whole loin. You will lose at least 10% to trimming which runs your cost closer to $14.86/lb. Additionally, any reputable steak house should not be serving Choice - but USDA Prime. USDA Prime is going for $16.41/lb for whole loins in 60 lb cases. Again, after trimming, you are pushing $18/lb. No one, anywhere in this country, is paying $8/lb for a prepared USDA Choice or better filet mignon. This is frontline pricing but discounts on beef are not very large these days. The biggest and best customers might be able to swing 20 - 30% off under contract sales. If someone is really willing to sell you filet for that price invest in a freezer and fill it up. There are very few indications that beef prices will come down anytime in the near future.

So to reverse the argument. The old DDP cost $37.99 per adult. The average table service meal cost approximately $40. An 18% gratuity was being paid to the servers based on actual menu prices (Every single server in 22 days over 3 trips using the DDP confirmed that they were paid in full based on the menu and they would only have had motive to tell me otherwise) would put average gratuity at $7.20. State sales tax would run 6.5% and would would be an additional $2.40 for a total of $9.60. Before one dime has been applied to the cost of the meal the money Disney management has to work with to offset the cost of your DDP food purchases has been reduced to $28.39. Thats $28.39 to cover an average of $56 a day in food spending per adult credit.

No one with any credibility has posted anything indicating how disney actually allocated funds to the restaurants. The objective and fair way to the restaurant managers would have been for the restaurants to be reimbursed in full and the losses absorbed by a promotional or advertising account. This would have allowed the profitability of individual restaurants to be measured as accurately as always while fixing a specific cost to operating the dining plan. However, I'm sure this is not how it was done and restaurants received a pro rata per DDP credit redeemed. Now, restaurants that have normally run at astronomical 80%+ profitabilities are breaking even or eeking out meager profits. And while it is no fault of theirs, I'm sure managers are being put through the ringer as a result. While the larger Disney company nets the same amount of money, individual managers are still held accountable for their divisions.

In my three DDP trips my total discounts ran well over 50% each time. Being in the business it was easy to see that these kind of discounts were unstainable for the long run - which is why we packed as many trips in as we could.