They know where you are.......

[shrubber]

Oops sorry about the error in numbers I'm sure the 50,000 that were enslaved and the 12 million Africans who were enslaved over the next 100 or so years really care if the numbers are off a bit. I'm sure they were extremely happy that those other 2 million people were able to enjoy their "freedom"

But your right it is sad that we have yet to live up to the ideals in any of our historical documents.

There were never 12 million slaves here in the US.
You are making things up, or grossly ill informed.

It was not 'a hundred years or so either '
The horror of slavery lasted in this country from the ratification of the Constitution to the Emancipation Proclamation,,about 75 years

 

[sbell111]

Fer cryin out loud,

The Bill of Rights does NOT GRANT YOU RIGHTS!!!!

The first ten admendments GUARANTEE that the Government can not take these rights away from you!!!!( they had to put these in to get the whole thing ratified or a bunch of States were not going to vote for it )

All other rights are UNALIENABLE and divined by God.

1) Religious discussion is not allowed on the Dis.
2) Where are these so-called unalienable rights that protect your celphone's location written down?

 

[Barbossa]

Fer cryin out loud,

The Bill of Rights does NOT GRANT YOU RIGHTS!!!!

The first ten admendments GUARANTEE that the Government can not take these rights away from you!!!!( they had to put these in to get the whole thing ratified or a bunch of States were not going to vote for it )

All other rights are UNALIENABLE and divined by God.

6 of one, half dozen of the other. God may give me unalienable rights, but human beings certainly do not. Any rights we have in the U.S. are granted by the Constitution. Without it, they might exist in principle, but certainly not in practice.

 

[shrubber]

You might note that no where in your list of so-called privacy rights did you include your celphone's right to keep it's location secret from the gubmint.

It is found in the 4th

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized

 

[eliza61]

It's still a matter of debate. Many people believe it was an issue over states rights. Southern states did not want to be told what to do but the reason why they were worried about it was because they feared having to get rid of their number #1 wealth producing instrument. slavery. So indirectly it was very much a contributing factor to the war.

But my basic message which I admit I stated badly is that Historically this country has never, not by any stretch of the imagination lived up to it's ideals. We have large segments of our populations (African Americans and native Americans) who will tell you that while the constitution and the Declaration were lovely documents, they have never been applied to all.

The history behind why they never included banning slavery is interesting. I apologize for not knowing all of it.

But outside of her very off numbers---

I would guess the person is referring to the Civil War when the southern states wished to secede from the union. All surrounding the issue of slavery. I'm sure you know the specifics.

But the war was our nation--against the other part of the nation wanting to not be in this nation. So the premise that the war was to keep slavery. Not entirely accurate.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

There were never 12 million slaves here in the US.
You are making things up, or grossly ill informed.

It was not 'a hundred years or so either '
The horror of slavery lasted in this country from the ratification of the Constitution to the Emancipation Proclamation,,about 75 years

It actually existed prior to that while our country was still under the varying powers of control of England and Spain.

Studying with my 4th grader and Slavery existed since at least the 1500s.

Slavery did not begin in 1776. It just wasn't prohibited b/c "they" (no citation as we are not there yet and I'm remember a little of our tour of monticello a few years back) were concerned that they would get a successfullly signed declaration if they banned slavery. Fuzzy on those details and I do apologize. But when my 4th grader gets to that time period in a few months, I'll be nice and fresh on those facts.

In fact--slavery existed from the 1500s until 1864 when the south lost the civil war. in the neighborhood of 300+ years.

 

[sbell111]

There were never 12 million slaves here in the US.
You are making things up, or grossly ill informed.

It was not 'a hundred years or so either '
The horror of slavery lasted in this country from the ratification of the Constitution to the Emancipation Proclamation,,about 75 years

1. Slavery existed in this country prior to the Constitution being ratified.
2. Starting the count from the start of the country to the end of the Civil War puts it at 89 years, which rounds nicely to 100 years.
3. According to the 1860 census, there were around 4 million slaves in the US at that time. Since that is merely a snapshot of a single point in time, it's not unimaginable that the total number of slaves in the US over the 100ish year span was well over 12 million.

 

[eliza61]

I never said there was 12 million African slaves in the US. I said 12 millions African were shipped And according to the 1860 census there were 4 million people. As for slavery. Slavery it what is now the US started in 1654, NOT when the constitution was ratified. Now I sure that doesn't mean any thing to you but for me those extra few years still count. I most certainly am not misinformed

There were never 12 million slaves here in the US.
You are making things up, or grossly ill informed.

It was not 'a hundred years or so either '
The horror of slavery lasted in this country from the ratification of the Constitution to the Emancipation Proclamation,,about 75 years

 

[shrubber]

6 of one, half dozen of the other. God may give me unalienable rights, but human beings certainly do not. Any rights we have in the U.S. are granted by the Constitution. Without it, they might exist in principle, but certainly not in practice.

Wow,
You surprise me.
Not a dig, but an honest question....
Have you attended a school were they taught a Government or Civics class?
( there is no way of telling how old somebody is here on the internets )
Rights are not Granted by this government.
They are Guaranteed.
It is not 6 of one half a dozen of the other.
It is an important difference!
Things are granted by such entities as Kings and Churches.
We do not have that here in the US.
We are all born with Unalienable rights, and our Government is supposed to guarantee that they are preserved.
Words mean things.

 

[sbell111]

It is found in the 4th

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized

Again, the knowledge of your celphone's location does not violate the 4th Amendment. Nothings is being searched or seized.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

It's still a matter of debate. Many people believe it was an issue over states rights. Southern states did not want to be told what to do but the reason why they were worried about it was because they feared having to get rid of their number #1 wealth producing instrument. slavery. So indirectly it was very much a contributing factor to the war.

But my basic message which I admit I stated badly is that Historically this country has never, not by any stretch of the imagination lived up to it's ideals. We have large segments of our populations (African Americans and native Americans) who will tell you that while the constitution and the Declaration were lovely documents, they have never been applied to all.

Exactly.

But keep in mind--the northern states were not fighting for that cause. They were anti-slavery. The war began when the little southern rebels wanted to leave and the north did not let them. South didn't like it so they showed them who in return kicked their butt eventually.

Our country certainly has a long way to go.

And my memory is fuzzy--but they did consider aboloshing slavery in 1776, but the concerns were that they could not successfully form a country if they did that b/c some of our founding fathers were not interested in changing their labor force so to speak.

To say never though--is a bit of a stretch.

They aren't perfect documents (i.e. all men...no mention of women or blacks)--but they aren't useless parchment with no meaning for which our country doesn't strive to achieve the ideal.

 

[eliza61]

Here is a timeline for the history of Slavery in America

1619 The first African slaves arrive in Virginia.

1787 Slavery is made illegal in the Northwest Territory. The U.S Constitution states that Congress may not ban the slave trade until 1808.
1790
1793 Eli Whitney's invention of the cotton gin greatly increases the demand for slave labor.
1793 A federal fugitive slave law is enacted, providing for the return slaves who had escaped and crossed state lines.
1795
1800
1800 Gabriel Prosser, an enslaved African American blacksmith, organizes a slave revolt intending to march on Richmond, Virginia. The conspiracy is uncovered, and Prosser and a number of the rebels are hanged. Virginia's slave laws are consequently tightened.

1863 President Lincoln issues the Emancipation Proclamation, declaring "that all persons held as slaves" within the Confederate state "are, and henceforward shall be free."

Almost 250 years give or take a few.

 

[shrubber]

It actually existed prior to that while our country was still under the varying powers of control of England and Spain.

Studying with my 4th grader and Slavery existed since at least the 1500s.

Slavery did not begin in 1776. It just wasn't prohibited b/c "they" (no citation as we are not there yet and I'm remember a little of our tour of monticello a few years back) were concerned that they would get a successfullly signed declaration if they banned slavery. Fuzzy on those details and I do apologize. But when my 4th grader gets to that time period in a few months, I'll be nice and fresh on those facts.

In fact--slavery existed from the 1500s until 1864 when the south lost the civil war. in the neighborhood of 300+ years.

I fully realize that, the comment was made about our country and specifically the failings of our Constitiution, which could hardly be held accountable some 287 years before Jefferson wrote the thing.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

We are all born with Unalienable rights, and our Government is supposed to guarantee that they are preserved.
Words mean things.

inalienable rights

 

[eliza61]

Exactly.

But keep in mind--the northern states were not fighting for that cause. They were anti-slavery. The war began when the little southern rebels wanted to leave and the north did not let them. South didn't like it so they showed them who in return kicked their butt eventually.

Our country certainly has a long way to go.

And my memory is fuzzy--but they did consider aboloshing slavery in 1776, but the concerns were that they could not successfully form a country if they did that b/c some of our founding fathers were not interested in changing their labor force so to speak.

To say never though--is a bit of a stretch.

They aren't perfect documents (i.e. all men...no mention of women or blacks)--but they aren't useless parchment with no meaning for which our country doesn't strive to achieve the ideal.

Which is what I generally try to remind people when they start waving them around as the "be all to end all" because for many people they were not.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I fully realize that, the comment was made about our country and specifically the failings of our Constitiution, which could hardly be held accountable some 287 years before Jefferson wrote the thing.

I believe her point is that our government did absolutely nothing about it when they were formed.

While they couldn't change the past, they had every opportunity to change the future but opted not to out of fear of disagreement.

 

[shrubber]

inalienable rights

The text of the DOI reads UNalienable, however, both words mean the same thing

 

[FireDancer]

Here is a timeline for the history of Slavery in America

1619 The first African slaves arrive in Virginia.

1787 Slavery is made illegal in the Northwest Territory. The U.S Constitution states that Congress may not ban the slave trade until 1808.
1790
1793 Eli Whitney's invention of the cotton gin greatly increases the demand for slave labor.
1793 A federal fugitive slave law is enacted, providing for the return slaves who had escaped and crossed state lines.
1795
1800
1800 Gabriel Prosser, an enslaved African American blacksmith, organizes a slave revolt intending to march on Richmond, Virginia. The conspiracy is uncovered, and Prosser and a number of the rebels are hanged. Virginia's slave laws are consequently tightened.

1863 President Lincoln issues the Emancipation Proclamation, declaring "that all persons held as slaves" within the Confederate state "are, and henceforward shall be free."

Almost 250 years give or take a few.

I think you forgot one very important date, December 6, 1865: The 13th Amendment is ratified. Without it the Emanicpation Proclimation could have very likely been found unconstitutional.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Here is a timeline for the history of Slavery in America

1619 The first African slaves arrive in Virginia.

1787 Slavery is made illegal in the Northwest Territory. The U.S Constitution states that Congress may not ban the slave trade until 1808.
1790
1793 Eli Whitney's invention of the cotton gin greatly increases the demand for slave labor.
1793 A federal fugitive slave law is enacted, providing for the return slaves who had escaped and crossed state lines.
1795
1800
1800 Gabriel Prosser, an enslaved African American blacksmith, organizes a slave revolt intending to march on Richmond, Virginia. The conspiracy is uncovered, and Prosser and a number of the rebels are hanged. Virginia's slave laws are consequently tightened.

1863 President Lincoln issues the Emancipation Proclamation, declaring "that all persons held as slaves" within the Confederate state "are, and henceforward shall be free."

Almost 250 years give or take a few.

I stand corrected--I included the slavery of the islands and mexico. Clearly not the US--but part of the early settlement of the Americas.

Funny that Spain banned slavery in Mexico in the 1500s. DD had a question comparing how Spain handled things versus how England/colonists handled things.

 

[shrubber]

Here is a timeline for the history of Slavery in America

1619 The first African slaves arrive in Virginia.

1787 Slavery is made illegal in the Northwest Territory. The U.S Constitution states that Congress may not ban the slave trade until 1808.
1790
1793 Eli Whitney's invention of the cotton gin greatly increases the demand for slave labor.
1793 A federal fugitive slave law is enacted, providing for the return slaves who had escaped and crossed state lines.
1795
1800
1800 Gabriel Prosser, an enslaved African American blacksmith, organizes a slave revolt intending to march on Richmond, Virginia. The conspiracy is uncovered, and Prosser and a number of the rebels are hanged. Virginia's slave laws are consequently tightened.

1863 President Lincoln issues the Emancipation Proclamation, declaring "that all persons held as slaves" within the Confederate state "are, and henceforward shall be free."

Almost 250 years give or take a few.

What country was this in 1619 again?

You were incorrect in your first statement.
This country has indeed not held the institution of slavery for more than 200 years.