They know where you are.......

[kaytieeldr]

As to cell phone tracking, my problem with that has a few points.
First, unlike a body scanner, how many people know that they are being or can be tracked by the government by their cell phone? I doubt many.

How many people MIND should be the bigger question. Based on this thread, not many.

Secondly, and most importantly, ( trying hard not to make broad political statements here ) that if the Gov says there is ' no expectation of privacy ' in something as simple as a cell phone call,

A cell phone call? Where do you see that? Because all I see in your original post is "that show where a mobile device placed and received calls".

Not the calls, not the content, not even the called number(s). Simply the location of the phone at the time/s it was in used.

If there is no ' expectation of privacy ' for a cell phone call,

Again, NOT the call. The LOCATION where the phone was used.

FBI agents obtained logs from mobile phone companies corresponding to what their cellular towers had recorded at the time of a dozen different bank robberies in the Dallas area. The voluminous records showed that two phones had made calls around the time of all 12 heists, and that those phones belonged to

NOTHING, repeat NOTHING about the content of the calls, or even the numbers to which the calls were made. Simply THAT it is legal for law enforcement to trace the location of cellphones using phone company records, and that in the case of the Scarecrow robbers [inferred] additional investigation gave the police their suspects and, eventually convicts.

eta: thoughts to ponder - if a crime were committed against you, and you could provide police with the information that the perpetrator had - and used - a cell phone, and so given the interpretation of the law the police can track THE PHONE, would you not want them to do it?

 

[diznygirl]

Same people who think the government is capable enough to track our every whereabouts with cell phone technology are the same people who don't think the government is capable enough to manage a national health care system.

Just an observation.....

 

[shrubber]

How many people MIND should be the bigger question. Based on this thread, not many.
A cell phone call? Where do you see that? Because all I see in your original post is "that show where a mobile device placed and received calls".

Not the calls, not the content, not even the called number(s). Simply the location of the phone at the time/s it was in used.

Again, NOT the call. The LOCATION where the phone was used.

NOTHING, repeat NOTHING about the content of the calls, or even the numbers to which the calls were made. Simply THAT it is legal for law enforcement to trace the location of cellphones using phone company records, and that in the case of the Scarecrow robbers [inferred] additional investigation gave the police their suspects and, eventually convicts.

eta: thoughts to ponder - if a crime were committed against you, and you could provide police with the information that the perpetrator had - and used - a cell phone, and so given the interpretation of the law the police can track THE PHONE, would you not want them to do it?

You are wrong,
the FCC now requires cell phones to be e911 compliant which allows them to located within 300 meters whether they are in use or not.
http://http://news.cnet.com/FCC-mandates-more-stringent-E911-compliance/2100-1039_3-6207530.html

If you had read the article, you would have seen


Whether state and federal police have been paying attention to Hollywood, or whether it was the other way around, cell phone tracking has become a regular feature in criminal investigations. It comes in two forms: police obtaining retrospective data kept by mobile providers for their own billing purposes that may not be very detailed, or prospective data that reveals the minute-by-minute location of a handset or mobile device.
Obtaining location details is now "commonplace," says Al Gidari, a partner in the Seattle offices of Perkins Coie who represents wireless carriers. "It's in every pen register order these days."

The ability to track a citizens location, at will, without probable cause and/or a warrant is an abomination.

 

[golfgal]

Is there a law that protects my privacy?

The obvious answer for you is to not use a cell phone if you are so concerned about this.

There was a woman in MN several years ago that is alive today because they were able to use her cell phone signal to find her. She got caught in a blizzard and her car was completely covered by snow. They were able to get a fix off the cell phone towers of her approximate position and were able to locate her car.

 

[NikitaZee]

I am kind of shocked by all the answers.

I don't care if I am not doing anything wrong, why in the world should the government be allowed to know where I am at all times?

I agree. I am also surprised that so few people are bothered by this.

 

[eliza61]

I agree. I am also surprised that so few people are bothered by this.

In all honesty, I guess it's because the reality of my daily life, I really have 2000 other issues that I could and do stress about. Some unknown government person tracking me ranks probably 999,567th on my list. if it really bothered me that much, I would simply turn my phone off.

Now if you could get this agency to make my son pick a college before he's 23I'd really be impressed. The kid is driving me crazy, every time he changes his mind it cost me $100 bucks.

 

[bettymae1121]

What?
Citizens carry and make cell phone calls. Citizens are ( or in this case should be ) protected from unreasonable searches.

But knowing your location isn't the same as searching you. Right now, the cops could stake out your house and put a tail on you without a warrent and without your knowledge. What's the difference between having a cop follow you around and a guy track your cell phone? Either way they know where you are, either way no warrent is obtained. Heck, the cop following you would know more about your activites than just a computer tracking your gps location. The cop following you knows who you stop and talk to, for instance.

In public the courts have ruled you have no reasonable expectation of privacy, so tracking your location while in public, IMO, wouldn't violate existing law and legal precedense(sp?). And even if your cell phone reveals your location as being at your home, that's all they know...that you are at home. They'd know the same if they drove by and saw your car in your driveway.

Let me ask you a question. Are you just as outraged by some of the parts of the Patriot Act, like the parts that allow the government to know what books you read at the library, for instance?

 

[NikitaZee]

I'm trying to understand why the idea of this is okay to some folks. Is it that it seems more far away and abstract due to the technological aspect of it? What if it were more obvious - say, if you were actually being followed? An actual person was just following you around and jotting down everywhere you went - would that make a difference? I'm truly curious here.

 

[Disney Doll]

Try living in a 3rd world country and see what happens when the government has free access to your whereabouts, conversations, and other information.

I suppose when the USA becomes a 3rd word country, we may all have to rethink our position.

 

[luvmy3]

Same people who think the government is capable enough to track our every whereabouts with cell phone technology are the same people who don't think the government is capable enough to manage a national health care system.

Just an observation.....

just wanted to get that in before this thread is closed

 

[shrubber]

But knowing your location isn't the same as searching you. Right now, the cops could stake out your house and put a tail on you without a warrent and without your knowledge. What's the difference between having a cop follow you around and a guy track your cell phone? Either way they know where you are, either way no warrent is obtained. Heck, the cop following you would know more about your activites than just a computer tracking your gps location. The cop following you knows who you stop and talk to, for instance.

In public the courts have ruled you have no reasonable expectation of privacy, so tracking your location while in public, IMO, wouldn't violate existing law and legal precedense(sp?). And even if your cell phone reveals your location as being at your home, that's all they know...that you are at home. They'd know the same if they drove by and saw your car in your driveway.

Let me ask you a question. Are you just as outraged by some of the parts of the Patriot Act, like the parts that allow the government to know what books you read at the library, for instance?

Again, I am afraid you are wrong,


The police are local and state and not controlled by the Federal Govt.
Big difference.
Aside from that, having the police follow you around or stake out your house without probable cause and/or a warrant will win you a court case about harrassment pretty quick.

Again, if there is no right to privacy, and no legal precedence, I should have as much right as the government to know where you are, should,nt I?
Feel free to jot down your exact location in the next post and update it every few minutes for us, would you?

As far as the Patriot act, you do know that the Government needs to issue a warrant or show probable cause before tapping your phone line or library card don't you?
That is the point, the Government wants to track locations, in real time, without a warrant or probable cause, and you don't have a problem with that?
Really?

 

[MiniGirl]

Obviously, just because the government CAN track everyone doesn't mean it would.

However, we have all heard stories of administrations from both parties making and keeping an enemies list. Should they be able to track their enemies hoping to catch them doing something illegal or something that would cause scandal? It would be for no other purpose than their own gain.

Would our employers have access to this information or be able to locate us? You call in sick and they want to track your cell phone to see if you're home or out having fun. I would've hated to have been able to be tracked when I was in high school and skipping class once a week. LOL!!!

Criminals are pretty savvy. They know they can be tracked and use burn phones, etc, so the only people really capable of being tracked are regular, everyday citizens. I'm sure they would also toss the phone of anyone they abducted.

I think the bigger issue is how willing we are to give away a little bit of our privacy in the name of convienence or safety. I'm guilty of it, too, so I'm not being critical. If we give it away little by little, eventually we will have nothing left. KWIM?

For me, I accept the fact that my cell phone can be tracked, but I would not be willing to get chipped. That is just scary. Those looking to abduct someone and do them harm would only have 2 options. One would be to cut the device out, so the person could no longer be tracked. The other would be to use the person and then kill them immediately. We have people cutting up pregnant women to get their baby. I think people who do these things would think nothing of cutting up a child or woman they abduct to avoid being tracked.

 

[tinkerfan1]

Unless I'm running from the law, I don't care if they can track me. If I go missing for some reason, perhaps they will be able to find me by tracking my cell phone.

My sentiments exactly!!

 

[OK!]

Wrong,
Two years ago, when the FBI was stymied by a band of armed robbers known as the "Scarecrow Bandits" that had robbed more than 20 Texas banks, it came up with a novel method of locating the thieves.

FBI agents obtained logs from mobile phone companies corresponding to what their cellular towers had recorded at the time of a dozen different bank robberies in the Dallas area. The voluminous records showed that two phones had made calls around the time of all 12 heists, and that those phones belonged to men named Tony Hewitt and Corey Duffey. A jury eventually convicted the duo of multiple bank robbery and weapons charges.



Even though police are tapping into the locations of mobile phones thousands of times a year, the legal ground rules remain unclear, and federal privacy laws written a generation ago are ambiguous at best. On Friday, the first federal appeals court to consider the topic will hear oral arguments (PDF) in a case that could establish new standards for locating wireless devices

http://http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10451518-38.html

That is completely different, obviously. The sheer fact that that particular cell phone was in the vicinity of A crime isn't adequate probable cause. What the authorities did was determine a PATTERN of usage by two particular phones in the area of TWELVE CRIMES. Hardly something the average person needs to concern himself with.

 

[kaytieeldr]

If you had read the article, you would have seen

The article linked in the first post? When I tried, it came up as "not found". That made me feel it would be a waste to try any subsequent cnet links.

The ability to track a citizens location, at will, without probable cause and/or a warrant is an abomination.

The same cannot be claimed for a cellular phone. People lose them and others find them; people even (horrors!) steal them.

Therefore, it's the PHONE that's being tracked, and the phone is not protected by any Constitution, Bill of Rights, or law.

Do you REALLY think the government has the time or the money - or cares - to track every single cell phone in the country?

 

[kaytieeldr]

Aside from that, having the police follow you around or stake out your house without probable cause and/or a warrant will win you a court case about harrassment pretty quick.

Case law examples, please.

 

[Disneycrazy!!]

Its to late!!! The government has done found me! They watch me all the time in the trees outside. They got video cameras hidden all in my house too!!
You better watch out! They will be after you next!!! You can't trust the government!!!

 

[eliza61]

Its to late!!! The government has done found me! They watch me all the time in the trees outside. They got video cameras hidden all in my house too!!
You better watch out! They will be after you next!!! You can't trust the government!!!

If they wisk me off to some where warm with no snow, I'll paint yellow arrows directing them to my door. I've got some relatives who no matter who hard I hide always seem to find me right around pay day.

 

[shrubber]

The article linked in the first post? When I tried, it came up as "not found". That made me feel it would be a waste to try any subsequent cnet links.
The same cannot be claimed for a cellular phone. People lose them and others find them; people even (horrors!) steal them.

Therefore, it's the PHONE that's being tracked, and the phone is not protected by any Constitution, Bill of Rights, or law.

Do you REALLY think the government has the time or the money - or cares - to track every single cell phone in the country?

Wrong again, things, objects, are protected by the Constitution from the Government. Not just people.

 

[Ponygirl]

To me, it is the quiet erosion of rights that bothers me. Our country has fought long and hard for basic rights and it seems wrong to let these things just slip by with a "who cares" attitude, no matter under which administration it occurs.

Many wars have been fought over such things that we take for granted.