There's Gotta be a better way to get around WDW

The Wuzzels

Earning My Ears
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
25
I can't believe that Disney can't seem to come up with a better transportation system than those dang busses. Why not use the WEDWAY PEOPLE MOVER only with enclosed seats and various turntables on the property to transfer from route to route. It can't be any more expensive than upkeeping the busses and paying drivers not to mention the pollution factor.
I've been to the Magic Kingdom lots and lots of times and have yet to see the People Mover broken down. And it's such a relaxing ride, not nearly as stressful as the busses can be during rushes.


I'm not an engineer or anything but don't you think it would be cool?
 
Well... see... there's a BIG difference between being "Cool" and moving tens of thousands of people in an efficient manner. Some critisize Disney for not expanding the monorail, however, there are many, MANY logistical reasons on why a monorail expansion would be a huge mistake.

Currently, there are two semi-feasible ideas... PRT and BRT. Personal Rapid Transit, and Bus Rapid Transit.

PRT isn't a relativly new concept, however, it never came to be, because until recently, we never had the computing power to make it work. In a nutshell... with PRT... you summon a small, personal car. In Disney's case, perhaps 6 people to a car. You tell the car where to go, and it takes you directly there. No one else to ride with, and no other stops. Although it sounds great, it would pose quite a logistical nightmare for the crowds at WDW.

Bus Rapid Transit can vary in forms... but the basic gist of it, is a bus-type vehicle travelling in its own private lane... bypassing all potential traffic, and controlling traffic lights in its favor. Some forms of BRT include using a special optically controlled guidance system. The Irisbus Civis is a prime example of this.

Would WDW benefit from BRT? Im actually struggling to think of areas where it would make a significant difference. And to be honest, I can only think of just a few. *shrug*


So what does this mean for WDW? Well, for now... I know y'all hate them, but the bus really is the most efficient way for you to get to the parks. It's flexible, cost efficient, and not as pollutant as people think. Today's diesel engines emit 80% less emmissions than just a few years ago. In fact, when properly maintained, they emit LESS pollution than a "Clean Air Natural Gas" fueled bus.
 
Tyler - DW and I _love_ the buses :) We think they are a great perk to get from point A to point B. Besides, when youre at Disney, even the buses seem magical :)

In fact, we often comment at home about how we wish Public transportation of that caliber were available here. Having been to Europe several times, we miss the efficient system of trains, trams and buses.
 
I've typically found that the people who have public transit systems at home, usually find Disney Transport to be quite efficient, and typically appreciate our hard work a little bit more. I'm guessing this, probably because they have something to compare us to.

Most people would be quite surprised at how complex our systems are, and how much work and effort we put into improving them on a daily basis. So, it's always really nice to hear compliments about it. Makes our hard work all the more worth while. :)
 

Why is expanding the monorail not feasible?
The only thing I can think of is that parking would be messed up. If the TTC was used as a hub, then EVERYONE would park there.
But... if you didn't have a hub, then this would not be a problem. For example, you can add a route that runs a loop between EPCOT, MGM and Animal Kingdom, but does not stop at the TTC. That way, you could get to every park via the monorail. (You just may have to transfer once or twice)
I know that building a monorail is expensive, but I would love to see it happen.
 
Why is expanding the monorail not feasible?

I'm not a Disney Transport insider like Chip 'n Dale Express, but my experience in public policy tells me that cost probably has a lot to do with it. Monorails are very expensive to build and maintain. From a business standpoint, will expanding the monoral system bring enough additional revenue to Disney to make it worth the capital expense? Highly unlikely. Same thing with the People Mover, which at one time was thought to be the future of transportation, but has been considered a failure nearly everywhere it has been built.

If you look at cities that are planning major expansions of their mass transit system, most are going with light rail systems or Bus Rapid Transit. Light rail poses the problem of having to install overhead wires. BRT is probably the most feasible, but again there's the issue of taking out a lane of traffic on nearly all of WDW's roadways. Ultimately any improvements in WDW transportation will probably be adjustments to the existing system, but no major building projects.
 
[DISCLAIMER: I'm just going to preface this by saying that I worked in Monorails for a year and a half... have been a member of the Monorail Society for 3 years, and am an avid Monorail fan, as well as a general overal transportation nut. I just finished a rather LARGE debate over on another board on this very subject, and am kinda exhausted about it... so please forgive my brevity.]

While indeed money plays a major factor in the decision not to expand the monorail, it goes much further.

A monorail expansion could be quite expensive, ranging from $500m to $1 billion, depending on size. (And yes, I do have numbers to back that up) That's a heck of a lot of money, especially for a non-revenue generating item. (By comparison, DAK cost $800m to build)

But there are many other factors. When considering such a system, Disney would want to invest thier money wisely. As such, it would install the system into areas where there is high traffic. This would include the All-Stars, Port Orleans, and Caribbean Beach. Park to Park transportation simply does not have the demand to warrant a monorail expansion. Now, since the resorts themselves are the ones that pay for transportation, how would this work? Obviously a brand new monorail system will be more expensive than a bus, and someone's gotta pay for it. This would mean that the All-Stars would face a rate hike... And while we're on the topic, why should someone spend $300 a night for the Contemporary, when they can spend $75 a night for the All-Stars.

The second point... take for example CBR. There are 7 stops within CBR... A monorail wouldn't be able to do all seven stops... it would be able to do one... How would folks get to and from that central monorail station? CBR is too large to hoof it... Same with Port Orleans.

Now, where would the monorail go? Most likely, it'd go to a central transfer station, where guests would transfer to where they want to go. Not a good idea. Keep in mind, we're dealing with people from all around the world, and English isn't always a well known language. And, unfortunetly... even for those of us that English is our first language... the concept of a "transfer" is mind boggling to many. As it stands right now, transferring to the Epcot Monorail is something that a lot of people have a hard time grasping. Guests do not want to transfer, and they get irate when there is no direct route. Not to mention, during peak times, guests would now have to wait in two mammoth lines.

Next... We already encounter this problem on the MK Resort Monorail... if done on a larger scale, it would become more of a problem. The problem with a fixed guideway system and WDW, is that our traffic flow is one way. In the morning, EVERYONE is going to the parks. If you take a look at the MK Resort Monorail... the Contemporary folks fill the seats... the Poly folks fill the standing room... so by the time the train gets to the Grand Floridian... it's full, and few people can get on. So, now folks are forced to wait for the next train. Same problem with that train. And so forth.

With a flexible system like a bus... if a bus fills up, the next bus can bypass the previous stops, and start off right where the other bus left off. And that other bus, can just head right to the park. Not so with a fixed guideway system that must follow its route.


Now, I know most people do not particularly care for the bus. However... it's direct... and it's a lot quicker than any fixed guideway system would be with the required transfer. And THAT is exactly what 90% of WDW guests want. Direct and Expedience.
 
/
Tyler - just back from WDW and count my husband and myself in as fans of the buses. I was prepared to have problems with it, but it seemed to be run as efficiently as possible - in one instance we'd been waiting for a YC/BC/BW bus at Downtown Disney. A bus pulled up for another stop with no one waiting; the attendant turned that bus into a bus for us. You can't improve on a system like that, in our humble opinions.

I even loved the inside of the buses - I walked in to one and it was a nice deju vu to the buses of my hometown (which had a great mass transit system - I didn't learn to drive until I moved away and *had* to :-)

Tyler - thanks for all your informaton - you are a tremendous resource to all of us, and (obvious from your attitude) a true professional.
 
I think the transportation system is just fine. Even though we rent a car, whenever we do take a bus or monorail or boat, we have never had a problem other than a basically minimal wait. You pretty much know that if you are using WDW transportation solely, you must allow for travel time, transfers, etc. You have to budget that into your schedules. The one time it took us an hour to get from a character breakfast at Chef Mickey's to our resort (CBR),we were the only ones on the bus, and the bus driver was so nice and friendly, it honestly didn't matter that it took that long(we had to walk to the TTC from Contemporary and wait for a bus that was going to CBR. Most buses are coming from the resorts in the morning, not going to them. No big deal).
We just choose to rent a car because we do wander off-site quite a bit, and like that extra convenience. I say don't fix what ain't broken. Just MHO.


Sheri
 
I love the buses. Heck I'm just happy to have someone drive me back to the hotel after a long day at the parks. I can't count how many times I've fallen asleep to the restful hums of the WDW buses!
 
Except for the Downtown Disney routes, WDW's buses are just like bus rapid transit.

The direct ride from resort to park makes buses very efficient for WDW, alas the problem is that one driver can move only so many people. WDW could go to longer buses (articulateds) except then the bus stations would need remodeling.

I think something needs to be done about Downtown Disney. Labor costs for buses is high because bus drivers spend a lot of time sitting in traffic. It is not the kind of vehicle but rather the need for more rights of way. A Tomorrowland Transit Authority or Orlando Airport tram or similar elevated system just from Marketplace to Westside makes sense.

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

The transportation experts in Boston say that its subways, rapid transit, and light rail are maxed out for commuting hours! So transportation as a whole is an uneasy balance between public transit and private cars.
 
Originally posted by seashoreCM
Except for the Downtown Disney routes, WDW's buses are just like bus rapid transit.

The direct ride from resort to park makes buses very efficient for WDW, alas the problem is that one driver can move only so many people. WDW could go to longer buses (articulateds) except then the bus stations would need remodeling.

I think something needs to be done about Downtown Disney. Bus drivers spend a lot of time sitting in traffic. It is not the kind of vehicle but rather the need for more rights of way.

Indeed, Artics would be something to look into... in additon, they've come out with 45ft Low Floors... there's lots of things out there worth exploring, and Disney is looking into it.

As for Downtown Disney... the construction is finally taking form, and hopefully will be done in just a few short months... once it's all done, that should take care of a lot of the traffic problems. The only other areas that need work are Typhoon Lagoon... and of course the Studios parking lot exit. I really think they need to build an auxilliary exit for guest cars, that exits onto Victory Way, near CBR... it links right to Osceole Parkway, World Drive, 192, and I4...


By the way... off topic... but Seashore, you're from Nashua? I'm originally from Amherst... lived there all my life until I moved down here. :)
 
Tyler can you tell me what the Monorail Society is? And what does being a member mean?

Thanks for all your info--very interesting to read.
 
Originally posted by disneymom3
Tyler can you tell me what the Monorail Society is? And what does being a member mean?

Thanks for all your info--very interesting to read.

It's an organization that promotes monorails versus light rail. Thier website is www.monorails.org A very informative website. :)
 
Tyler - I have loved the Disney busses from the moment I rode on my first one (before Epcot was built). It is part of the whole Disney vacation that I love. Not having to drive, not having to park, not having to get in a HOT car and wait for it to cool off enough to get in and not get burned by touching the steering wheel, taking a short nap on the way to wherever we are heading to next, ... all that is what makes a true Disney vacation so special. I think Disney does wonderful with moving people. Most major cities should take a lesson from Disney! The only problem I've ever had was when I staying at the Wilderness Lodge. I'll never stay there again because of the problems with the busses. Why a large "deluxe" resort shares a bus with the campground is beyond me. Anyway, you can keep the monorail, I love your bus system! And I love all you bus drivers too. Keep up the great job!
 
Originally posted by TeenaS
Why a large "deluxe" resort shares a bus with the campground is beyond me. Anyway, you can keep the monorail, I love your bus system! And I love all you bus drivers too. Keep up the great job!

And what's wrong with the folks at the Campground? They do have showers there, don't worry! :teeth:
 
Actually... while on that topic... something I wish they'd change... I'd rather see the routes become Contemporary/Wilderness Lodge as one route, and Polynesian/Grand Floridian as a second route, and have Fort Wilderness be seperate.
 
The folks there are fine - it's the amount of time it took to get around there. We were coming in from AK once and it first stopped at the campground. By the time it went around and around and around, and got us to the Lodge, it was over an hour. And not just that time. Just about every place we went, we stopped going or coming back at the campground and it took forever and forever - there were always buses in front of us, or we couldn't get around a camper or something. It was a nightmare. Loved the campers but I think they certainly deserve their own bus, just like maybe the Lodge could have their own bus or share with the Contemporary. Anyway, I've stayed at just about every other resort too and even at the GF where you share with other resorts, no trip was ever as long as the trips where we got stuck at the campgrounds. Still love the buses - just not when staying at the WL.
 
Thanks, Tyler for all the great information and insight!

We do not have mass transit where I live and I love the buses at the World. (I put 20,000 miles on my car last year, and I only work 2.5 miles from home!) My philosophy on transportation is the same as I have for cooking. You can serve me anything and it will be wonderful as long as I didn't have to cook it.....and as long as I don't have to drive it, it is the best transportation there is!

Thanks for all your hard work, maybe we'll see you in November!

Soccer Mom
 














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