The VGF 2 pricing thread

[pinkxray]

I am horrible at predicting what DVC will but I am really hoping for something closer to $207.
I am looking to add on at an MK resort and at $207 will add on direct VGF. I don’t have direct points yet and would like some unrestricted points.
On the other hand, my DH hates GF so anything over $210ish, I‘m out. I’ll just purchase resale BLT and hope to book an MK resort at 7 months or use my savings to get a transfer once in awhile.

 

[Ruttangel]

Just wondering if anyone had heard if member adding on would be minimum of 25 or 50 pts?

 

[dvc lover 1970]

I am guessing it opens at 225 per point if sales are slow they offer incentives to bring the price down to 200 point

 

[nuhusky123]

Disney stock is in trouble as investors now question Disney+ subscriber growth given Netflix is likewise in trouble

disney+ was the golden child but now Disney cannot rely on Disney+ to prop up the stock

parks and dvc must now start looking more profitable. Where dvc may have been able to be more greedy with a good looking Disney stock I think that ship has sailed. Dvc needs the money from gfv ASAP, not in ten years.

honestly $207 in this economy is pushing it. Riv is not selling well at $201 and and that was in somewhat good time. Inflation is going to get worse before it gets better. I’d expect dvc sales across the board decrease short term and increasing riv to $207 isn’t going to help.

alas the price will rise but I think gfv trying to get a premium above riv will simply mean gfv fails to sell well. in the current environment Disney needs the next couple of quarters to look much much better otherwise fy22 is going to be a bad one for chapek

 

[Sandisw]

Just wondering if anyone had heard if member adding on would be minimum of 25 or 50 pts?

I bet it’s raised to the 50 minimum they are at with RIV.

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

There are some hotels on the other side of Disneyland where the walk is a bit shorter, but then it’s a longer walk to Downtown Disney, and most of them seem kind of rundown.

Some are and many aren’t, but the point is they are 1/5th the price of Disneyland Hotel for an experience that isn’t particularly different in any appreciable way.

 

[Nabas]

honestly $207 in this economy is pushing it. Riv is not selling well at $201 and and that was in somewhat good time. Inflation is going to get worse before it gets better. I’d expect dvc sales across the board decrease short term and increasing riv to $207 isn’t going to help.

As you note, RIV sales have been subpar since the start of the pandemic. Increasingly, it's difficult to imagine how opening VGF2 at a high price will help Disney's revenue.

 

[nuhusky123]

given current economic and political uncertainty in the Ukraine were I dvc I’d hold on increasing riv prices and then match gfv at $201. I think increasing riv to $207 is premature and will result in further decline in sales at that resort

if the Ukraine is invaded sanctions will cripple Russia but impact to the rest of us will be higher fuel prices. the US is already discussing increased fuel production to offset Russian imports. The eu however relies overwhelmingly on Russian natural gas an fuel imports. The impact will be more expensive everything thereby making buying luxuries harder. Us and eu citizens will see their spending power decrease

although we may view Disney as a basic need, in reality everything Disney sells is a luxury.

is the sky falling today, no, but Disney would be foolish to overprice gfv given these uncertainties

 

[zebsterama]

Obviously who knows what will happen -- it's always fun to speculate.

Some are saying $207 is too high in this inflationary economy with rising interest rates, and others are saying it's got to be $225 PP, or something in that range: this is after all Disney's flagship resort ... just look at the enthusiasm on this board alone.

My 2 cents ... I think that WE "DVC and all things Disney Enthusiasts" are not the primary target of DVC. Yes they will take our money, smile, and run, but its the newbie's they need, and want: if for no other reason, sheer volume alone.

Starting (and let me emphasize "starting") at $207 does a lot positive things for DVC sales IMO:

1. I think it's really bad optics if you start at $225, and then are forced to drop prices to say $215 or $207. It cheapens the brand, and it makes people wonder ... "if I wait long enough will DVC's GF price drop even lower??"

Start at $207 PP, and if sales pick up, raising the price is a perfectly acceptable practice in our capitalistic fun filled world. You could even announce (based on recent precedence) ... today's GF price is $207 PP, but come May 1 2022 it goes up to $215 PP. All you fence sitters, you better get it while it's hot!!

2. Starting at $207, forces the sales conversation/engagement to go further/deeper: a sales persons dream , because now you are forced to compare resorts, benefits, preferences etc. There will be newbies (and people like us) who will be sitting down with their sales rep, and they will really be challenged / incentivized to chat -- i.e. "which resort is really better for me and my family --- RIV or GF?" ... as we see many examples with this thread.

How does this point have any relation to price? Price is KING - and you need an apples to apples comparison on price, to drive that interaction/choice/sale. By starting the price at $207, you may (believe it or not) drive sales into RIV that were originally intended for GF. $207 PP provides you with that opportunity, $225 narrows your choice exponentially.

Furthermore - by executing point 1 (see price raise hype on May 1, 2022) you may drive a lot of sales into RIV for a short spurt and create an artificial demand cycle. Fear of missing out, is the great driver of western culture --- just ask my millennial children, but I digress.

3. DVC is super expensive. At the best of times, there's serious sticker shock. Those DVC sales people in those kiosks, standing in the sun between Future World and World Pavilion (or whatever they call it now ), need a punchers chance at making a sale. I think $225PP at the onset (or something north of $207PP to start) is a bridge too far. The 150 minimal entry point for newbie's is a real killer IMO. I have nothing to prove this -- I just think you're excluding a huge demographic in an unfavorable time when you need to pump out 80+K points a month --- and WE on this board just can't buy them all.

... but wouldn't it be great if we could?

Anyhoo -- it's all fun and games talking about it ... ... I guess we'll find out.
I'm likely totally wrong -- it has happened!!! ... just ask my wife

This reply is already too long --- my apologies (I'm Canadian) --- like you, I'm looking forward to seeing what's what soon!

Cheers

 

[Sandisw]

Obviously who knows what will happen -- it's always fun to speculate.

Some are saying $207 is too high in this inflationary economy with rising interest rates, and others are saying it's got to be $225 PP, or something in that range: this is after all Disney's flagship resort ... just look at the enthusiasm on this board alone.

My 2 cents ... I think that WE "DVC and all things Disney Enthusiasts" are not the primary target of DVC. Yes they will take our money, smile, and run, but its the newbie's they need, and want: if for no other reason, sheer volume alone.

Starting (and let me emphasize "starting") at $207 does a lot positive things for DVC sales IMO:

1. I think it's really bad optics if you start at $225, and then are forced to drop prices to say $215 or $207. It cheapens the brand, and it makes people wonder ... "if I wait long enough will DVC's GF price drop even lower??"

Start at $207 PP, and if sales pick up, raising the price is a perfectly acceptable practice in our capitalistic fun filled world. You could even announce (based on recent precedence) ... today's GF price is $207 PP, but come May 1 2022 it goes up to $215 PP. All you fence sitters, you better get it while it's hot!!

2. Starting at $207, forces the sales conversation/engagement to go further/deeper: a sales persons dream , because now you are forced to compare resorts, benefits, preferences etc. There will be newbies (and people like us) who will be sitting down with their sales rep, and they will really be challenged / incentivized to chat -- i.e. "which resort is really better for me and my family --- RIV or GF?" ... as we see many examples with this thread.

How does this point have any relation to price? Price is KING - and you need an apples to apples comparison on price, to drive that interaction/choice/sale. By starting the price at $207, you may (believe it or not) drive sales into RIV that were originally intended for GF. $207 PP provides you with that opportunity, $225 narrows your choice exponentially.

Furthermore - by executing point 1 (see price raise hype on May 1, 2022) you may drive a lot of sales into RIV for a short spurt and create an artificial demand cycle. Fear of missing out, is the great driver of western culture --- just ask my millennial children, but I digress.

3. DVC is super expensive. At the best of times, there's serious sticker shock. Those DVC sales people in those kiosks, standing in the sun between Future World and World Pavilion (or whatever they call it now ), need a punchers chance at making a sale. I think $225PP at the onset (or something north of $207PP to start) is a bridge too far. The 150 minimal entry point for newbie's is a real killer IMO. I have nothing to prove this -- I just think you're excluding a huge demographic in an unfavorable time when you need to pump out 80+K points a month --- and WE on this board just can't buy them all.

... but wouldn't it be great if we could?

Anyhoo -- it's all fun and games talking about it ... ... I guess we'll find out.
I'm likely totally wrong -- it has happened!!! ... just ask my wife

This reply is already too long --- my apologies (I'm Canadian) --- like you, I'm looking forward to seeing what's what soon!

Cheers

These are all great points. Last Spring and early Summer, the sales data did suggest that price was a factor with new buyers as points were sold at SSR when it was the lowest (and then OKW when it became the lowest).

So, those new buyers...which I also agree is the target...not the small section of owners here...could be faced with an amount where that extra buy in cost makes a difference. My hope is 2 weeks left until we get some prices!!!

 

[nuhusky123]

These are all great points in last Spring and early Summer, the sales data did suggest that price was a factor with new buyers as points were sold at SSR when it was the lowest (and then OKW when it became the lowest).

So, those new buyers...which I also agree is the target...not the small section of owners here...could be faced with an amount where that extra buy in cost makes a difference. My hope is 2 weeks left until we get some prices!!!

I agree the new to dvc is the target. Given 150 point minimum thats the price of a new car. do buyers buy the new car they have been delaying due to supply shortages or pick up dvc

one is a necessity for most, the other a luxury

I also think the value of everyone’s retirement funds will take a hit over the course of the next few weeks as we do seem to be in a correction with drum beats of war and inflation fanning the flames

 

[Sandisw]

I agree the new to dvc is the target. Given 150 point minimum thats the price of a new car. do buyers buy the new car they have been delaying due to supply shortages or pick up dvc

one is a necessity for most, the other a luxury

I also think the value of everyone’s retirement funds will take a hit over the course of the next few weeks as we do seem to be in a correction with drum beats of war and inflation fanning the flames

Of course, it will all depend on the goals of DVD too...they don't always seem to do things we understand! I would assume they want to sell the product and the magic that goes with it vs. just one resort so any level of price difference that can be seen as big.....could back fire on them for total sales.

So, initial starting price close if not the same as RIV would seem like the logical move to spark initial sales, and then raise it if its selling like hot cakes. Also, the points from the new building will not be eligible for trips until that building opens...RIV points are available for immediate stays...for VGF, one would have to be deeded to the current building to get that and they may or may not do that before the building opens.

 

[Einstein509]

That’s why nothing beats relying on your own two feet to get to and from the parks. Thats why the 3 B’s reign supreme for me.

This. Location, location, location.

That's my main point with VGF. We own only at resorts that have walking access to the parks. After standing in bus, monorail, ferry boat, etc. lines.....we were done with that. Despite all of the other valid points being made on this forum, you can't beat VGF's location and Disney knows that.

This may not apply to Disney newbies as some of the posts alluded to, especially since Riviera's location on the Skyliner is a selling point. Folks made some good points about the demographic DVD is targeting with VGF2 and I didn't take that into account. However, I still think the higher price is more likely. There's plenty of people out there with a ton of cash and with everything Disney has done lately in terms of pricing, it's clear they are targeting a higher level income demographic. Just look at AP prices. A few years ago, they were priced around $700-$800, which is still a lot. Now they are around $1200. That's a huge increase in a relatively short timeframe.....and people will buy them when they go on sale again otherwise Disney wouldn't have priced them at that price point. So if a family of four is willing to spend $5000 on a year long annual pass, why wouldn't folks have money to buy in to VGF2 at $220? That equates to roughly $33,000 for many, many years of use. At $207, it would cost roughly $31,000. At these price points, if you're already spending upwards of $30k, what's another $2k?

If it's one thing we've seen with the current regime, it's that they will squeeze every dime out of us if they can. I think that mindset trumps everything else and they will go with a higher price point, just to make more $$$.

Disney isn't stupid.....when they see people lining up for six hours to buy a plastic popcorn bucket for $30, they know there's money out there. Even ear headbands almost doubled in price over the last few years ($17 versus $30 now).

 

[sndral]

As you note, RIV sales have been subpar since the start of the pandemic. Increasingly, it's difficult to imagine how opening VGF2 at a high price will help Disney's revenue.

View attachment 641564

Thank you for the chart, the difference in Riviera sales pre & post pandemic onset is an eye opener. It’d be interesting to see what happened to DVC sales in the 07-09 era since we may be poised on a similar precipice.

 

[Sandisw]

This. Location, location, location.

That's my main point with VGF. We own only at resorts that have walking access to the parks. After standing in bus, monorail, ferry boat, etc. lines.....we were done with that. Despite all of the other valid points being made on this forum, you can't beat VGF's location and Disney knows that.

This may not apply to Disney newbies as some of the posts alluded to, especially since Riviera's location on the Skyliner is a selling point. Folks made some good points about the demographic DVD is targeting with VGF2 and I didn't take that into account. However, I still think the higher price is more likely. There's plenty of people out there with a ton of cash and with everything Disney has done lately in terms of pricing, it's clear they are targeting a higher level income demographic. Just look at AP prices. A few years ago, they were priced around $700-$800, which is still a lot. Now they are around $1200. That's a huge increase in a relatively short timeframe.....and people will buy them when they go on sale again otherwise Disney wouldn't have priced them at that price point. So if a family of four is willing to spend $5000 on a year long annual pass, why wouldn't folks have money to buy in to VGF2 at $220? That equates to roughly $33,000 for many, many years of use. At $207, it would cost roughly $31,000. At these price points, if you're already spending upwards of $30k, what's another $2k?

If it's one thing we've seen with the current regime, it's that they will squeeze every dime out of us if they can. I think that mindset trumps everything else and they will go with a higher price point, just to make more $$$.

Disney isn't stupid.....when they see people lining up for six hours to buy a plastic popcorn bucket for $30, they know there's money out there. Even ear headbands almost doubled in price over the last few years ($17 versus $30 now).

Isn't that extra $2K about two years worth of MF's (assuming $207 vs. $225) ?? If it comes out with a larger spread...which some have predicted it will be near sold out price...its at least $7 K. So, how do you sell that aspect to someone who says "Can't I just buy RIV for less, and trade into it at 7 months since you are telling me that it is so easy?' or "What makes a resort that has 6 less years cost more if I can stay at all the resorts?"

Now, the walking path was a game changer for VGF...and for some families who see wanting to be at MK and in studios, I agree those buyers will be willing to pay more for VGF...the big question is will that be the bulk of the target audience??? Or, will those new buyers be cost conscience and choose a resort that fits the budget better???

 

[Einstein509]

the big question is will that be the bulk of the target audience??? Or, will those new buyers be cost conscience and choose a resort that fits the budget better???

I guess we'll find out soon enough!

 

[Paul Stupin]

This. Location, location, location.

That's my main point with VGF. We own only at resorts that have walking access to the parks. After standing in bus, monorail, ferry boat, etc. lines.....we were done with that. Despite all of the other valid points being made on this forum, you can't beat VGF's location and Disney knows that.

This may not apply to Disney newbies as some of the posts alluded to, especially since Riviera's location on the Skyliner is a selling point. Folks made some good points about the demographic DVD is targeting with VGF2 and I didn't take that into account. However, I still think the higher price is more likely. There's plenty of people out there with a ton of cash and with everything Disney has done lately in terms of pricing, it's clear they are targeting a higher level income demographic. Just look at AP prices. A few years ago, they were priced around $700-$800, which is still a lot. Now they are around $1200. That's a huge increase in a relatively short timeframe.....and people will buy them when they go on sale again otherwise Disney wouldn't have priced them at that price point. So if a family of four is willing to spend $5000 on a year long annual pass, why wouldn't folks have money to buy in to VGF2 at $220? That equates to roughly $33,000 for many, many years of use. At $207, it would cost roughly $31,000. At these price points, if you're already spending upwards of $30k, what's another $2k?

If it's one thing we've seen with the current regime, it's that they will squeeze every dime out of us if they can. I think that mindset trumps everything else and they will go with a higher price point, just to make more $$$.

Disney isn't stupid.....when they see people lining up for six hours to buy a plastic popcorn bucket for $30, they know there's money out there. Even ear headbands almost doubled in price over the last few years ($17 versus $30 now).

Not sure that lining up for a popcorn bucket equates to plunking down a minimum of 31K that will only give you a VGF studio for a week at certain times of the year. And not sure that "there are plenty of people out there with a ton of cash" who will be willing to buy VGF2 points indiscriminately. More well off buyers are savvy ones too, and they're just as eager, if not more so, to spend their money wisely. A VGF2 price thats set too high will potentially drive them elsewhere as well.

But, as you said, we'll find out soon enough!

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

I said it several pages back but I’ll say it again:

Timeshare margins are so massive that they maximize profits more by selling quickly and moving along to the next build than they do by charging the highest price.

They’ll make way more money over the next 5 years in they price VGF to sell out VGF in 9 months and have another conversation ready to go in 2023 than they will if they price VGF to sell out in 18 months and have another conversation ready in 2024.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

If price were the sole driving indicator, logic has it that RIV would be near selling out. And it is not. There are other factors, some of which we are not aware of, that are going to determine the starting price.

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

If price were the sole driving indicator, logic has it that RIV would be near selling out. And it is not. There are other factors, some of which we are not aware of, that are going to determine the starting price.

I personally think the slow sales of Riviera are a point in favor of a lower price for VGF not a higher one.