The Vaccine Discussion Thread

[Freeman867]

So somebody had a seizure and went into a cardiac arrest because they were psychosomatic. My friend's arm swelled because she was psychosomatic. Please that's a bit of stretch.

Could be there was an underlying issue that the vaccine didn't cause and it was purely coincidental the vaccine was given right before. Could be the vaccine started an immune response as expected and that caused issues. So if the vaccine didn't cause the problem, something was going to soon enough. Correlation is not causation.

 

[DCLMP]

Could be there was an underlying issue that the vaccine didn't cause and it was purely coincidental the vaccine was given right before. Could be the vaccine started an immune response as expected and that caused issues. So if the vaccine didn't cause the problem, something was going to soon enough. Correlation is not causation.

It kind of reminds of me of the Covid debates. Did they die from Covid or was it one of their ten co-morbidities? Sound familar?

 

[Mousequake]

Most of what's going on with VAERS is completely coincidental. No connection at all to the vaccine. They're tracking trends there to research them if the data is there to do so, but in most cases there is absolutely no direct correlation to the vaccine itself. Anyone can report anything there, so take it with a grain of salt.

Directly from the VAERS website:

"
VAERS accepts and analyzes reports of possible health problems—also called “adverse events”—after vaccination. As an early warning system, VAERS cannot prove that a vaccine caused a problem. Specifically, a report to VAERS does not mean that a vaccine caused an adverse event. But VAERS can give CDC and FDA important information. If it looks as though a vaccine might be causing a problem, FDA and CDC will investigate further and take action if needed.
Anyone can submit a report to VAERS — healthcare professionals, vaccine manufacturers, and the general public. VAERS welcomes all reports, regardless of seriousness, and regardless of how likely the vaccine may have been to have caused the adverse event."

This is my absolute favorite thing on VAERS-- their disclaimer that you have to read before doing a search:

VAERS accepts reports of adverse events and reactions that occur following vaccination. Healthcare providers, vaccine manufacturers, and the public can submit reports to the system. While very important in monitoring vaccine safety, VAERS reports alone cannot be used to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to an adverse event or illness. The reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable. In large part, reports to VAERS are voluntary, which means they are subject to biases. This creates specific limitations on how the data can be used scientifically. Data from VAERS reports should always be interpreted with these limitations in mind.

My favorite all-time thing unfortunately no longer exists on VAERS: an entry saying a flu vaccine turned someone into the Incredible Hulk. The doctor who submitted it to show how you could literally submit anything to VAERS with no verification lobbied them to have it taken down.

 

[DCLMP]

Incentive to get the vaccine, I guess, or plan vacations that don't involve cruising. A recent study out of Northwestern does show a correlation between lower income and vaccine resistance (I want to be clear that I am not impugning anyone's economic status here). Cruising is a relatively expensive mode of vacationing, so it seems less likely to me that the the unvaccinated 50% would be people choosing to cruise.

Your assuming low income people are the ones not getting vaccinated. So you're basically saying a store like Walmart couldn't be successful banning the unvaccinated but Saxs Fifth avenue could?

There's is reason every thread on cruise forums get's shut down. It's a very divisive topic and it's not based on income level.

 

[DCLMP]

This is my absolute favorite thing on VAERS-- their disclaimer that you have to read before doing a search:

My favorite all-time thing unfortunately no longer exists on VAERS: an entry saying a flu vaccine turned someone into the Incredible Hulk. The doctor who submitted it to show how you could literally submit anything to VAERS with no verification lobbied them to have it taken down.

Did you bother to take note of any reputable claims or did you just bring up the silly ones to discredit the whole site.

 

[blabadie]

This is going to sound snarky, but I truly do not intend it that way. I find it fascinating how there seem to be so many severe reactions after the vaccine among the population that seems to be the most resistant to the vaccine.

Conversely, I know of no one even remotely connected to me who has had anything beyond the standard common side effects. There have only been a handful of people in the entire large metro area where I live who have had to be hospitalized for anything vaccine-related. And yet almost every person I’m aware of who is resistant to the vaccine knows someone with a horrible side effect.

Im wondering if there’s a psychosomatic component to some of those reactions because they’re expecting something bad to happen.

Perhaps vaccine-hesitant people seem to know more people with serious vaccine reactions simply because witnessing those reactions is what made them hesitant to begin with.

I don't actually know of anyone in my extended social network who had a serious reaction following the vaccine. If multiple people I knew had nearly died immediately following the Pfizer vaccine, it might have made me reluctant to get it--even in spite of statistics currently showing no correlation between the vaccine and serious health scares. Similarly, those who know someone who died or had serious damage from covid are probably more scared of it than those whose friends and family only had mild infections. That's just human nature.

 

[wideeyedwonder]

"Moderna said Tuesday its Covid-19 vaccine was 100% effective in a study of adolescents ages 12 to 17, making it the second shot behind Pfizer’s to demonstrate high efficacy in younger age groups.

The company said it plans to ask the Food and Drug Administration to expand the emergency use of its Covid vaccine for teens early next month. If approved, it would likely dramatically expand the number of shots available to middle and high school students ahead of the next school year. Pfizer and German partner BioNTech were cleared to use their vaccine for 12- to 15-year-olds earlier this month."

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/25/cov...ve-in-teens-plans-to-seek-fda-ok-in-june.html

 

[sethschroeder]

Still don't see DCL requiring vaccines in the US and with possible Alaska cruises they can't pass the buck to another country it would be 100% on Disney likely.

I supposed they could try to hide behind the CDC but wonder if by July the policies regarding starting cruises back up changes as well.

 

[ahain]

Still don't see DCL requiring vaccines in the US and with possible Alaska cruises they can't pass the buck to another country it would be 100% on Disney likely.

I supposed they could try to hide behind the CDC but wonder if by July the policies regarding starting cruises back up changes as well.

I thought I read on another thread that Washington State has a rule that they would only allow cruise ships over250 passengers if everyone was vaccinated. So if DCL does sail to Alaska out of Seattle, they will need to require vaccinations, I believe.

 

[mevelandry]

The current progress as of yesterday, for 3 countries that I see a lot of DISBoards members are from:

View attachment 577544View attachment 577546
View attachment 577547

It shows the difference vaccination (and full vaccination makes). In Canada, most of the public —age groups that are working— have only been eligible to get vaccinated for their first shot in April. You can see the huge drop in cases, especially in the last three weeks.

 

[mevelandry]

(...)

To say mandatory vaccines won't continue to drag on the tourism industry is being unrealistic. Cruises and international travel may have a much slower recovery.

Not all countries are resistant to vaccines, though.

IMO, there will be a boost in travel during the first months. Travellers who got vaccinated will travel internationally and some of them will try compensate for all the lost trips of 2020 by travelling more (that would be us...Hi!) or longer and them inject more money.

 

[mevelandry]

What if the 50% are in the percentage that have cruised?

More room for us.

 

[mevelandry]

Come on. We all know the appropriate analogy: Carnival is Wal-Mart.

As a Carnival fan, I feel attacked.

 

[TestingH2O]

I thought I read on another thread that Washington State has a rule that they would only allow cruise ships over250 passengers if everyone was vaccinated. So if DCL does sail to Alaska out of Seattle, they will need to require vaccinations, I believe.

The CDC has inducted that it has jurisdiction over the ports. So, just like they are saying they can ask for vaccinations in Florida, they could, theoretically, also have alternative requirements in Washington.

**not a lawyer, but that is how I interpret it.**

 

[randumb0]

For Cruises Departing from the U.S. or The Bahamas

For sailings departing on or before August 1, all Royal Caribbean guests age 16 and older must complete all doses of their COVID-19 vaccine at least 14 days before their sailing. For sailings departing after August 1, the age requirement for vaccination will change from 16 to 12 years of age.

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/faq/...-covid-vaccine-to-cruise-what-counts-as-proof

RC has updated their website. Instead of it saying US it says Seattle


QDo I need a COVID-19 vaccine to cruise? What documents count as proof of vaccination? How far in advance do I need to get my vaccine?
A


For Cruises Departing from Seattle or The Bahamas
For sailings departing on or before August 1, all Royal Caribbean guests age 16 and older must complete all doses of their COVID-19 vaccine at least 14 days before their sailing. For sailings departing after August 1, the age requirement for vaccination will change from 16 to 12 years of age.

 

[BadPinkTink]

I work in marketing and follow a lot of marketing industry people. Yesterday I saw that a PR firm is offering big money to high profile bloggers and influencers, for an anti vax campaign. Like any industry, there are people who have no problem promoting something if it pays big money. It does not surprise me that PR companies have anti vax clients, and are using celebs and high profile bloggers and influencers for their campaigns. Its the trickle down marketing process, get the message out there and suddenly its being cited as a credible source and it gets into mainstream though process.

 

[hrhdhd]

RC has updated their website. Instead of it saying US it says Seattle


QDo I need a COVID-19 vaccine to cruise? What documents count as proof of vaccination? How far in advance do I need to get my vaccine?
A


For Cruises Departing from Seattle or The Bahamas
For sailings departing on or before August 1, all Royal Caribbean guests age 16 and older must complete all doses of their COVID-19 vaccine at least 14 days before their sailing. For sailings departing after August 1, the age requirement for vaccination will change from 16 to 12 years of age.

Maybe because they've been approved for test cruises that will be leaving from another port. No vaccination required for those.

 

[wideeyedwonder]

get the message out there and suddenly its being cited as a credible source and it gets into mainstream though process.

Off topic, but this is EXACTLY the focus of the book “Trust me, I’m lying” by confessed media manipulator Ryan Holiday. This is one of the reasons that I tell people that this is a “post fact society”, because opinions and rumors are shopped up the media food chain, to finally be referred to as “verified fact”. For a recent example, just look at how many news outlets called the possible “lab leak” origin of COVID-19 as a “lie” and a “conspiracy theory”, instead of saying all along that the origin is *unknown*, and should continue to be investigated.

Anyways, it’s too easy for any of us to believe a lie or a half truth from today’s media because we don’t consider that, more than ever, there are incentives (including $$$) to be sloppy or omit important facts, or to treat opinion as fact.

 

[tink2424]

How accurate are the rapid antibody tests? I know not everyone that has Covid or has had a vaccine will have a positive antibody test. T cell test are expensive?
I might try the rapid test it’s only 25 bucks.

I don't know that they have rapid antibody tests. I thought the rapid tests were for the antigen (so if you have the virus actively or have just had it and it is still in your system). I did have the yes/no antibody test 4 months after infection and had antibodies then again at 9 months later and it was a no but I have no idea the sensitivity level. I'm not aware of any labs right now that are running commercially available tests to pick up the lower levels of antibodies but we definitely should have these available.

If you have an example of a rapid antibody test and can post it I would love to look into it.

 

[BadPinkTink]

Off topic, but this is EXACTLY the focus of the book “Trust me, I’m lying” by confessed media manipulator Ryan Holiday. This is one of the reasons that I tell people that this is a “post fact society”, because opinions and rumors are shopped up the media food chain, to finally be referred to as “verified fact”. For a recent example, just look at how many news outlets called the possible “lab leak” origin of COVID-19 as a “lie” and a “conspiracy theory”, instead of saying all along that the origin is *unknown*, and should continue to be investigated.

Anyways, it’s too easy for any of us to believe a lie or a half truth from today’s media because we don’t consider that, more than ever, there are incentives (including $$$) to be sloppy or omit important facts, or to treat opinion as fact.

exactly and to keep this on topic about vaccines and cruising. The PR and Marketing industries have a very dark side to them which most people don't realise. But with the whole Covid and vaccine / anti vax issue, its just taken an even darker turn. Like any industry, the majority of people are good honest people, who follow the law and industry rules and regulations. But there are a number of people who don't. Now before Covid, it was a big deal but it didn't really have an impact on global issues and the health of the global population if payment disclosures were omitted. No one would die if a lifestyle personality "forgot" to mention that they were paid by a PR company to wear a certain brand of lipstick. It was dishonest and deceitful and against industry rules but thats about it.

Now though, PR companies are actively looking for these same high profile people for anti vax campaigns. The people who before "forgot" to disclose payment will have no problem doing anti vax campaigns , even if they hold totally different views.

Thats why the whole anti vax movement is growing. Its because the information is being spread in a very non threatening, easy to find way, by people who have a voice and who are being paid to spread the information. You may find the anti vax information on Facebook, as your sister shared a link. But thats the end result of the influencer PR campaign. That information would have been shared many many times from the original source.