The Vaccine Discussion Thread

[nancipants]

If you have any doubt or any concerning co-morbidities the decision to get the vaccine or not should be a conversation between you and your physician. It shouldn't be a cruise line or people on a travel forum telling you to do so.

A cruise line requiring vaccinations isn’t forcing anyone to get the vaccine, though. People can choose another cruise line that does not require it, or choose a different vacation. I’m more comfortable sailing on cruise that requires vaccinations, so if DCL chooses not to do that, that’s a decision I have to make about whether I want to continue to sail with them. No one, including myself, is obligated to or has an inherent right to cruise, as much as I might complain about it.

Also, as other people have started/insinuated, any vaccine requirements may be a short-term solution to getting cruising up and running again. Once cruises have shown they can sail without outbreaks, and the rest of the world has gotten more access to vaccinations, the requirement may go away.

 

[DCLMP]

A cruise line requiring vaccinations isn’t forcing anyone to get the vaccine, though. People can choose another cruise line that does not require it, or choose a different vacation. I’m more comfortable sailing on cruise that requires vaccinations, so if DCL chooses not to do that, that’s a decision I have to make about whether I want to continue to sail with them. No one, including myself, is obligated to or has an inherent right to cruise, as much as I might complain about it.

Also, as other people have started/insinuated, any vaccine requirements may be a short-term solution to getting cruising up and running again. Once cruises have shown they can sail without outbreaks, and the rest of the world has gotten more access to vaccinations, the requirement may go away.

It sounds there are going to be options for people that want vaccinated cruises and those that don't. It's more about the big picture for me. Once one industry gets away with requiring vaccine passports then others will follow suit. I know some people would be perfectly OK flashing their "health" passport everywhere they go.

NCl is the only one not doing test cruises out of PC.

 

[DCLMP]

BINGO! This is exactly how we feel. All vaccinated in our family from age 13 to 80 (with a variety of health issues, I.e., blood clot issues, recent cancer survivor, immune compromised disease, prior covid survivors— all met with doctors prior to getting vaccinated). we have Cruises booked (4 of them in 2022 with 2 cabins each cruise). We are getting impatient. We are up to 8 cruises that have canceled or been moved now. We don’t want to wear mask because we are sailing with unvaccinated guest, nor do we want to be denied port access if unvaccinated cruisers get covid and we don’t want our cruise cut short for the same reason. We did our part, discussed the vaccine with our doctors and got our shots, now waiting for dcl to give us some guidelines. If vaccines are required, we will go. If they are not, we will cancel. Regardless the outcome, we just want to move forward.

I get the feeling that whatever protocols they have now will all change come Nov 1. That's if the CDC gets out of their way. Your best chance of a vaccinated, maskless cruise might be this Summer. I feel bad for you. DCL is not very forthcoming with info. I would be very frustrated as well.

 

[orum]

It sounds there are going to be options for people that want vaccinated cruises and those that don't. It's more about the big picture for me. Once one industry gets away with requiring vaccine passports then others will follow suit. I know some people would be perfectly OK flashing their "health" passport everywhere they go.

NCl is the only one not doing test cruises out of PC.

I think they should make vaccines mandatory, but showing proof optional (to keep with the letter of the FL law). Then, if there is an outbreak, they look at anyone who didn't provide proof to see if they lied on their cruise check in documents and sue them for civil damages. I would expect a single outbreak would be pretty damaging to the cruise line (millions?). I am not sure that would be a deterrent enough to keep people from going on the cruise anyway, but it might.

I already ordered my state vaccination record, just in case the CDC card isn't enough. I probably should just add the data to my yellow vaccination card that I already carried with my passport.

 

[DCLMP]

I think they should make vaccines mandatory, but showing proof optional (to keep with the letter of the FL law). Then, if there is an outbreak, they look at anyone who didn't provide proof to see if they lied on their cruise check in documents and sue them for civil damages. I would expect a single outbreak would be pretty damaging to the cruise line (millions?). I am not sure that would be a deterrent enough to keep people from going on the cruise anyway, but it might.

I already ordered my state vaccination record, just in case the CDC card isn't enough. I probably should just add the data to my yellow vaccination card that I already carried with my passport.

They are not allowed to ask for proof or ask you your vaccination status. Therefore they are not going to take your documentation.

 

[orum]

They are not allowed to ask for proof or ask you your vaccination status. Therefore they are not going to take your documentation.

Edited.. It appears I was correct. It doesn't say they can't require vaccination or that they can't ask for documentation. It says they can't require documentation:

CS/CS/SB 2006 (flsenate.gov)

(1) A business entity, as defined in s. 768.38 to include 1123 any business operating in this state, may not require patrons or 1124 customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 1125 vaccination or post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry 1126 upon, or service from the business operations in this state. 1127 This subsection does not otherwise restrict businesses from 1128 instituting screening protocols consistent with authoritative or 1129 controlling government-issued guidance to protect public health.

My point about ordering the records was to agree with you that there are people that will provide it if asked.

 

[jrapps]

They are not allowed to ask for proof or ask you your vaccination status. Therefore they are not going to take your documentation.

Sorry but this is not accurate. They are allowed to ASK, they just aren't allowed to prohibit you entry if you are not vaccinated, or don't wish to disclose it. Here is the language from the bill:

prohibiting a business entity from requiring patrons or customers to provide documentation certifying vaccination against or recovery from COVID-19;

prohibiting governmental entities from requiring persons to provide documentation certifying vaccination against or recovery from COVID-19;

Nothing in that language says you can not ask for it, or provide a different level of service to those with or without it.

 

[mevelandry]

It sounds there are going to be options for people that want vaccinated cruises and those that don't. It's more about the big picture for me. Once one industry gets away with requiring vaccine passports then others will follow suit. I know some people would be perfectly OK flashing their "health" passport everywhere they go.

NCl is the only one not doing test cruises out of PC.

Celebrity as well, if I am not mistaken.

 

[orum]

Sorry but this is not accurate. They are allowed to ASK, they just aren't allowed to prohibit you entry if you are not vaccinated, or don't wish to disclose it. Here is the language from the bill:

prohibiting a business entity from requiring patrons or customers to provide documentation certifying vaccination against or recovery from COVID-19;

prohibiting governmental entities from requiring persons to provide documentation certifying vaccination against or recovery from COVID-19;

Nothing in that language says you can not ask for it, or provide a different level of service to those with or without it.

I don't see in the law where they can't require vaccination. The only prohibition I could find was on providing proof. So, they can ask you if you are vaccinated and not let you on if you aren't, but if you are not vaccinated and lie and say you are, they can't ask you to prove it.

 

[Snowwhyt]

Celebrity edge just got CDC approval to sail FROM Florida (Ft. Lauderdale/Port Everglades) on June 26th. They are going the full vaccine requirement route to avoid the test cruise. So far, it looks to be the first cruise out of the US to restart.

How many days and what stops are planned? Do they have staffing to attend the vacationers? 30 days out is not much training time for all those departments.
Thank you in advance if you know these answers, but understand if you don’t have them as well.

 

[jrapps]

I don't see in the law where they can't require vaccination. The only prohibition I could find was on providing proof. So, they can ask you if you are vaccinated and not let you on if you aren't, but if you are not vaccinated and lie and say you are, they can't ask you to prove it.

Correct. You can require vaccination. You can ask for proof. But you can not "require" proof. (unless they deem the law unconstitutional but we won't go there now)

So DCL can say we require you to be vaccinated. DCL can ask you to provide proof of vaccination before or at the port. Where it gets sticky is if you pay for a cruise (knowing there will be vaccines required) and then get to the port and opt not to show proof (either because you aren't vaccinated or for privacy concerns). Then DCL either decides to 1) allow you to board if you sign something stating you are vaccinated even though you are not providing any documentation to that effect or 2) deny you boarding. I don't see #1 as viable. #2 is "illegal" under FL law and subject to a $5,000 fine

So the only way the law comes into effect is IF someone is denied boarding, then DCL can be fined.

At least that is how I read it. Others will interpret differently, and there won't be any consensus on which way is right or wrong until a lawsuit happens.

 

[tink2424]

They won't get anyone new. There are not going to be many first-time cruisers for quite some time. People who have never cruised before aren't sitting home right now itching to go on their first cruise vacation at sky high prices in the midst of a pandemic. So the cruise industry is banking on their existing fan base to go out, get vaccinated, and go on multiple trips. If that doesn't happen, the industry won't grow.

A little off topic, but I also think the overall economy is WAY overdue for a breather. When the government COVID stimulus money eases up (it has to at some point or else we will see massive inflation), we could see a downturn within the next few years. If it happens, the cruise lines will be hit with a double-whammy (pandemic followed by a recession). I would expect some bankruptcies in the industry at that point. I admit I have a pessimistic view, but it's how I interpret the trends. I had the same gut feeling in 2006 that I have today.

I agree with you on this. And yes, inflation is already a big problem so everything is going to cost more so people will inevitably have less spending money going forward which will impact travel in the next few years. I should save my money so that I can go on a better vacation when they lower prices.

My co-worker that had a bad reaction had the Moderna vaccine. She also has Graves disease. She will not be getting the second shot. I have a friend that had a covid and her only symptom was Covid toes. Peripheral vascular disease and blood clots run in her family so she's not getting the vaccine. I can't blame her since the vaccine has been linked to blood clots. I have another friend who just about died from a flu shot(anaphalaxis).

If you have any doubt or any concerning co-morbidities the decision to get the vaccine or not should be a conversation between you and your physician. It shouldn't be a cruise line or people on a travel forum telling you to do so.

Absolutely!! And again they continue to ignore those that have had COVID and have recovered. The data is very good for those under 65 that they have immunity just as good or better than those with vaccines. If you are going to have special rules for vaccinated people then the recovered should be in that group as well as long as they are under 65.

 

[sabrecmc]

I wonder how all of this talk of Florida's rules will work with the various requirements for ports of call. Bahamas requires vaccination proof for their visa or a negative test within 5 days (or that was what they did require last I checked). I don't know what Mexico or other ports might require. I wonder if a workaround would be to require people to provide proof of a health visa for each applicable port of call (since, in theory, even if you don't plan to get off the ship, you might have an emergency or there could be an outbreak). Just thinking out loud, not my area.

 

[orum]

I wonder how all of this talk of Florida's rules will work with the various requirements for ports of call. Bahamas requires vaccination proof for their visa or a negative test within 5 days (or that was what they did require last I checked). I don't know what Mexico or other ports might require. I wonder if a workaround would be to require people to provide proof of a health visa for each applicable port of call (since, in theory, even if you don't plan to get off the ship, you might have an emergency or there could be an outbreak). Just thinking out loud, not my area.

Does the Bahamas travel visa apply to private islands like Disney? If so, that might be a way to get around the prohibitions if a visa is required to board the ship. I do see that the Bahamas (at least currently) allows a negative test or vaccination.

 

[sabrecmc]

Does the Bahamas travel visa apply to private islands like Disney? If so, that might be a way to get around the prohibitions if a visa is required to board the ship. I do see that the Bahamas (at least currently) allows a negative test or vaccination.

I think it is Bahamian territory still and utilizes Bahamian workers who would potentially be exposed, so I don't see why not, but again, not an expert.

 

[DCLMP]

I don't see in the law where they can't require vaccination. The only prohibition I could find was on providing proof. So, they can ask you if you are vaccinated and not let you on if you aren't, but if you are not vaccinated and lie and say you are, they can't ask you to prove it.

Sure they can ask, but you aren't required to answer.

 

[DCLMP]

I wonder how all of this talk of Florida's rules will work with the various requirements for ports of call. Bahamas requires vaccination proof for their visa or a negative test within 5 days (or that was what they did require last I checked). I don't know what Mexico or other ports might require. I wonder if a workaround would be to require people to provide proof of a health visa for each applicable port of call (since, in theory, even if you don't plan to get off the ship, you might have an emergency or there could be an outbreak). Just thinking out loud, not my area.

Mexico doesn't require anything.

 

[sethschroeder]

I wonder how all of this talk of Florida's rules will work with the various requirements for ports of call. Bahamas requires vaccination proof for their visa or a negative test within 5 days (or that was what they did require last I checked). I don't know what Mexico or other ports might require. I wonder if a workaround would be to require people to provide proof of a health visa for each applicable port of call (since, in theory, even if you don't plan to get off the ship, you might have an emergency or there could be an outbreak). Just thinking out loud, not my area.

Except do you get a travel VISA prior to leaving the US? Like do you have the VISA on you when boarding the Disney ship? Or do you get the travel VISA when getting to that specific port?

 

[randumb0]

Sure they can ask, but you aren't required to answer.

That's the part that we don't know. If it was so easy to control what cruise ships do then Florida would have allowed for cruising a year ago.

 

[orum]

I wish I was a lawyer... (well, maybe not really).

This was also part of the bill (the same section that prohibits a business from requiring proof of Covid vaccination status).

This subsection does not otherwise restrict businesses from 1128 instituting screening protocols consistent with authoritative or 1129 controlling government-issued guidance to protect public health.

I would expect the CDC guidance to be an authoritative in this case and the cruises following government-issues guidance to protect public health.