The Vaccine Discussion Thread

[Intr3pid]

Those percentages you quoted are of the *total* US population, including babies and small children, and teens under 18 that haven’t been permitted to get vaccinated until just recently (last week or so?)

However, For adults (Americans age 18 and over), the percentage fully vaccinated are now at 47%, and 60% are either fully or partial vaccinated.

Most US states have had 16+ getting their shots for a while. The 36% includes the 16- and 17-year olds. Your 47% is an incorrect number since no public data source is reporting vaccinations separately for 16- and 17-year olds. The incorrect 47% simply divides the total vaccinations by the adults in the 18+ group. Similarly, the 60% first-dose number is incorrect.

Where the number lies between 36% and 47% is still noticeably lower than the 60% NIH number.

 

[wideeyedwonder]

Most US states have had 16+ getting their shots for a while. The 36% includes the 16- and 17-year olds. Your 47% is an incorrect number since no public data source is reporting vaccinations separately for 16- and 17-year olds. The incorrect 47% simply divides the total vaccinations by the adults in the 18+ group. Similarly, the 60% first-dose number is incorrect.

Where the number lies between 36% and 47% is still noticeably lower than the 60% NIH number.

I don’t understand. My number (47%) is for adults 18 and older, and has nothing to do with 16 and 17 year olds. It’s off of the CDC web site, as of 30 minutes ago.

47% of the entire US adult (18 and older) population is *fully* vaccinated.

60% of the entire US adult (18 and older) population is at least partially vaccinated.

From the CDC Covid data tracker : https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations

 

[mevelandry]

I think it is going to be tough for many people as there are a lot of concerns with the length of these trials as well as some of the ways these trials were conducted. So I think FDA approval will help for some but for others it won't make a difference.

Additionally the CDC & NIH are ignoring natural immunity and the research that supports that no vaccine is needed for those with natural immunity. If you want people to take you seriously and say that you are following the science then you need to actually follow the science.

I don't know about the CDC but Health Canada definitely states that they recommend at least 1 shot for people who have been infected with COVID. They are definitely not ignoring data about natural immunity.

 

[AquaDame]

I don't know about the CDC but Health Canada definitely states that they recommend at least 1 shot for people who have been infected with COVID. They are definitely not ignoring data about natural immunity.

CDC is also recommending vaccination for those who have been previously infected as it appears to provide a better antibody response and protection against variants.

 

[Intr3pid]

I don’t understand. My number (47%) is for adults 18 and older, and has nothing to do with 16 and 17 year olds. It’s off of the CDC web site, as of 30 minutes ago.

47% of the entire US adult (18 and older) population is *fully* vaccinated.

60% of the entire US adult (18 and older) population is at least partially vaccinated.

From the CDC Covid data tracker : https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations

The reason why these numbers are not comparable is because you are looking at data asymmetrically - that is, you are excluding only those under 18.

The 47% number represents all 18+ vaccinations. This includes 65+ as well, which you can imagine isn't the age group working at NIH.

To compare apples to apples, count how many full vaccinations have been completed for 18-65 age group. The number from the CDC website is 121 - 40 = about 81 million.

About 66% of 331 million total US population is in the 18-65 age group. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States. This works out to 218 million people.

So, 81/218 = 37% estimate is awfully close to the 36% number I quoted. I simply took the shortcut by removing both 0-17 and 65+ - i.e. trimming at both ends.

Regardless, whichever way you slice the data, there is a noticeable difference form the 60% NIH number.

 

[DCLMP]

It was certainly not intended to be condescending. I don't think it is condescending to say we should educate people on the benefits of the vaccine, the same as you could say you want to educate people on the risks. That wouldn't offend me in the slightest. I think getting more information is always a good thing. The funny thing is that I was pushing back on treating those who don't want to vaccinate as stupid or calling them names. Maybe you are being a little overly sensitive?

I have not and never would try to educate people on the risks.
My main concern with all this is I don’t want to see them mandated in this country. Other than that I don’t care if people get the vaccine or not.

 

[hrhdhd]

Most US states have had 16+ getting their shots for a while. The 36% includes the 16- and 17-year olds. Your 47% is an incorrect number since no public data source is reporting vaccinations separately for 16- and 17-year olds. The incorrect 47% simply divides the total vaccinations by the adults in the 18+ group. Similarly, the 60% first-dose number is incorrect.

Where the number lies between 36% and 47% is still noticeably lower than the 60% NIH number.

Deleted

 

[jrapps]

I have not and never would try to educate people on the risks.
My main concern with all this is I don’t want to see them mandated in this country. Other than that I don’t care if people get the vaccine or not.

I understand this perspective, but I don't want a double standard applied to this vaccine due to political reasons. All 50 states mandate vaccines in certain situations.

Once the Covid vaccine is fully FDA approved, I fully expect schools and other places that currently mandate vaccines to require Covid, just like they require

• Diphtheria-tetanus-acellular pertussis (DTaP)
• Inactivated polio vaccine (IPV)
• Measles-mumps-rubella (MMR)
• Varicella (chickenpox)
• Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib)
• Pneumococcal conjugate (PCV13)
• Hepatitis B (Hep B)

Edit: I should add, once it is fully FDA approved for all age groups

 

[soniam]

CDC is also recommending vaccination for those who have been previously infected as it appears to provide a better antibody response and protection against variants.

They are also seeing reduced or diminished long haul symptoms when vaccinated.

 

[mostlytraveling4food]

While we are on th subject of government agencies and accuracy, did you know that in March 2015, the SSA Inspector General released a report that 6 million people 112 years+ were active in the system?

100,000 of that six million were before they went with electronic records in 1972, so we can let that slide a little.

 

[MrFish]

CDC is also recommending vaccination for those who have been previously infected as it appears to provide a better antibody response and protection against variants.

Israel's large 3 month study found natural infection to be 96 percent effective against hospitalisations versus 94 percent with the vaccine. The fact that vaccines are being given to people with previously confirmed infections is highly worrying to me. "Follow the science", or just parts of it, when it suits.

 

[mefordis]

Sorry if this has been covered upthread, but is there a place to see the requirements of each cruise line in order to cruise? For example, I hear Carnival will not require vaccines, and I'm not sure if Disney has decided (for the Wish). Have they?

 

[jrapps]

Sorry if this has been covered upthread, but is there a place to see the requirements of each cruise line in order to cruise? For example, I hear Carnival will not require vaccines, and I'm not sure if Disney has decided (for the Wish). Have they?

Other than Norwegian, I don't believe any cruise line has officially said anything about requirements in the US. Even Carnival's stance was in an interview and not a published "requirement" or lack or requirement.

We wait patiently.

 

[Dug720]

Other than Norwegian, I don't believe any cruise line has officially said anything about requirements in the US. Even Carnival's stance was in an interview and not a published "requirement" or lack or requirement.

We wait patiently.

Pretty sure RCCL and Celebrity are requiring them.

 

[jrapps]

Pretty sure RCCL and Celebrity are requiring them.

Not in the US...they are requiring them on cruises this summer outside the US, as is Disney in the UK. None have said for sure yet what they intend to do once cruising resumes in the US.

 

[HiStitch626]

The Magic is requiring vaccination for all adults on the Staycation sailings this summer, but Disney has not released information about any future cruises. MSC is sailing in the Med and currently requires testing, but not vaccination.

 

[Dug720]

Not in the US...they are requiring them on cruises this summer outside the US, as is Disney in the UK. None have said for sure yet what they intend to do once cruising resumes in the US.

Direct from Celebrity's website. No indication that it is just for the summer:

"We’ve been hard at work developing new health and safety protocols to keep you Healthy at Sea.
We’ve partnered with medical and scientific advisors from our Healthy Sail Panel, our Global Head of Public Health and Chief Medical Officer; and local health and government authorities to guide us in the development of our protocols. These measures include reduced capacities, enhanced cleaning and sanitization and physical distancing.
Guests 18 years and older must be fully vaccinated with all Covid-19 vaccine doses administered at least 14 days prior to sailing. Guests under 18 aren’t required to be vaccinated but if they are, they will follow guidance for fully vaccinated guests. If a guest is unable to be vaccinated, the guest will need adhere to the strictest testing guidelines. We’re also working with local health authorities in our homeport countries to ensure guests meet current inbound travel requirements.
As we return to sailing, your health and safety remains our top priority."

 

[tink2424]

Was there someone that said it shouldn't be a choice to get vaccinated? if they did, I must have missed it.

I did see a reference I believe where it was discussed that if you wanted to cruise with DCL then you must be vaccinated....................that is a little different position to me because anyone could remain unvaccinated, but they couldnt go on a DCL cruise.

Statistics are great for many things but they can be used to promote or argue against a position. I agree with your reasoning that each person/family should look at all available intel and make the best choice for themselves knowing the possible outcomes OR social limitations.

We decided to get the vaccine based on our situation and so far it has worked out. I wish everyone all the wisdom in your arsenal when choosing for yourself.

Yes, many here on this site have said that it shouldn't be a choice.

It shouldn't matter... But it does:

When too many people end up hospitalized, it creates stress on the health care system. In my province, having 500-1000 people hospitalized for COVID takes enough beds and the result is that important surgeries have to be postponed. People can die from collateral damages of COVID. In regions with very little hospital beds, the impact of an outbreak in a small town can be dramatic. A high number of unvaccinated people could have a huge impact on the health care system.

Well that is socialized medicine for you...

I don't know about the CDC but Health Canada definitely states that they recommend at least 1 shot for people who have been infected with COVID. They are definitely not ignoring data about natural immunity.

There is absolutely no data on this at all comparing those that have had COVID getting the vaccine having more immunity or better immunity than those who had COVID but do not get the vaccine. Not one real world study on this.

 

[tink2424]

I understand this perspective, but I don't want a double standard applied to this vaccine due to political reasons. All 50 states mandate vaccines in certain situations.

Once the Covid vaccine is fully FDA approved, I fully expect schools and other places that currently mandate vaccines to require Covid, just like they require

• Diphtheria-tetanus-acellular pertussis (DTaP)
• Inactivated polio vaccine (IPV)
• Measles-mumps-rubella (MMR)
• Varicella (chickenpox)
• Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib)
• Pneumococcal conjugate (PCV13)
• Hepatitis B (Hep B)

Edit: I should add, once it is fully FDA approved for all age groups

Yes, they are mandated but there are exemptions. I would argue that none of these should be mandated for anyone.

 

[tink2424]

Israel's large 3 month study found natural infection to be 96 percent effective against hospitalisations versus 94 percent with the vaccine. The fact that vaccines are being given to people with previously confirmed infections is highly worrying to me. "Follow the science", or just parts of it, when it suits.

THANK YOU!! I hadn't seen that study so I will go look for it but yeah the "guidance" from the government that if you have had COVID you should still be vaccinated is not based on any science at all. And people just parrot what they hear on the news, not any real facts.