The Vaccine Discussion Thread

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You have to also add in those who had Covid and have immunity for the total of herd immunity.
I don't believe those who had COVID are being counted towards the herd immunity goal because it's still recommended they get vaccinated. The "natural immunity" from having the virus seems to vary how long and how well it protects.
 
I think many people who aren't planning on getting vaccinated may change their mind assuming it continues to be safe and effective. But some people just will never be vaccinated for whatever reason.
 
Just to be transparent I have removed a couple more posts for going off topic into mask debate, and a couple more that quoted/replied to them. Please keep the thread on topic and politics out of it as much as possible. Thank you!
 

I think many people who aren't planning on getting vaccinated may change their mind assuming it continues to be safe and effective. But some people just will never be vaccinated for whatever reason.

well, thankfully, they can have "whatever reason" they choose to not be vaccinated. There are risks associated with all vaccines due to allergies and sensitivities to vaccine and vaccine mediums - they weigh those risks against the risks of whatever disease for which the vaccine is for and make an adult decision on how to proceed. Frankly, given some of the recent findings about vaccine efficacy and length of innoculation (6 months), I think many may change their mind.
 
Frankly, given some of the recent findings about vaccine efficacy and length of innoculation (6 months), I think many may change their mind.

The vaccines are proving effective. They are not 100%, but no vaccine in history has been 100%. The variants are a challenge, but the vaccines are providing at least some protection against the variants. As for the length of efficacy being reported as 6 months, it is "at least" 6 months. They can't say any longer yet because it hasn't been more than 6 months since the end of the phase 3 trials. The vaccines could prove to provide much longer immunity as we move further out from the end of the clinical trials.
 
well, thankfully, they can have "whatever reason" they choose to not be vaccinated. There are risks associated with all vaccines due to allergies and sensitivities to vaccine and vaccine mediums - they weigh those risks against the risks of whatever disease for which the vaccine is for and make an adult decision on how to proceed. Frankly, given some of the recent findings about vaccine efficacy and length of innoculation (6 months), I think many may change their mind.

They should also look at countries in Europe and India etc to see what happens when the vaccine rollout has been slow. It is not the same picture we have here right now. I know within the last couple of weeks ICUs in France were full or near full.
 
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The vaccines are proving effective. They are not 100%, but no vaccine in history has been 100%. The variants are a challenge, but the vaccines are providing at least some protection against the variants. As for the length of efficacy being reported as 6 months, it is "at least" 6 months. They can't say any longer yet because it hasn't been more than 6 months since the end of the phase 3 trials. The vaccines could prove to provide much longer immunity as we move further out from the end of the clinical trials.

let's hope! Perhaps when more solid data is available, people can make more educated choices...
 
Looks like Silversea Cruises is going to require vaccines yet Desantis is saying no to that. Things are starting to get interesting
 
Looks like Silversea Cruises is going to require vaccines yet Desantis is saying no to that. Things are starting to get interesting

Do you have a link for that? I don't see how a state can tell a private company how to conduct their business (as long as they are not discriminatory). If we want to get sailing again out of the US, I believe vaccines are the way to at least get started and test out the systems for covid.
 
Do you have a link for that? I don't see how a state can tell a private company how to conduct their business (as long as they are not discriminatory). If we want to get sailing again out of the US, I believe vaccines are the way to at least get started and test out the systems for covid.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.su...bpndc5aop6oyla5tgvq-story.html?outputType=amp
Odd move for someone who just sued to resume cruising, claiming cruise lines had the ability to resume cruising with reasonable safety precautions without the CDC's heavy restrictions. This will only strengthen the CDC's position, because a central part of his case is that the CDC hasn't shown state measures are insufficient as required by the regulations. This is a step back for those who want to see cruising resume.
 
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FDA recommends halting Johnson & Johnson vaccine “out of an abundance of caution” as it investigates reports of blood clotting issues in 6 women, one of which has died. Another is currently in critical condition.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/13/us-...n-johnson-vaccine-due-to-clotting-issues.html
This is why we cannot be mandating these right now.

Let's keep this pause in perspective. So far, it is 6 cases out of 6 million+. Literally one in a million odds - which are much better than the odds of blood clotting from birth control pills, and much better odds than clotting from COVID-19 itself. I don't plan to get into the mandate debate, as I think the mods prefer we keep politics off the board. I will say, if we want to see cruising resume soon, I think allowing cruise lines to implement vaccine requirements will be a must for some period of time.
 
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Let's keep this pause in perspective. So far, it is 6 cases out of 6 million+. Literally one in a million odds - which are much better than the odds of blood clotting from birth control pills, and much better odds than clotting from COVID-19 itself. I don't plan to get into the mandate debate, as I think the mods prefer we keep politics off the board. I will say, if we want to see cruising resume, I think allowing cruise lines to implement vaccine requirements will be a must for some period of time.

They have such a microscope on this it is ridiculous, and the media hyping things like this up is giving people more reasons not to take it. If people truly knew the potential side effects of common drugs they take, worse than the vaccine, they would likely never take a medicine again!

Honestly I am hoping for a vaccine requirement for the cruises since people can come from anywhere to sail. I don't believe in the requirement for everything, just certain forms of travel makes sense to me.
 
They have such a microscope on this it is ridiculous, and the media hyping things like this up is giving people more reasons not to take it. If people truly knew the potential side effects of common drugs they take, worse than the vaccine, they would likely never take a medicine again!
So true! All of this investigation typically takes place "behind the scenes" during development and trials. Pushing the vaccines to market quickly has put it all front-and-center for the media and public.
 
Let's keep this pause in perspective. So far, it is 6 cases out of 6 million+. Literally one in a million odds - which are much better than the odds of blood clotting from birth control pills, and much better odds than clotting from COVID-19 itself. I don't plan to get into the mandate debate, as I think the mods prefer we keep politics off the board. I will say, if we want to see cruising resume soon, I think allowing cruise lines to implement vaccine requirements will be a must for some period of time.
In further perspective, 0.018 deaths have occurred per confirmed COVID positive in the US to date. Out of 6M JnJ doses, that would be 108k dead. Instead, we have 1. Even if the critically ill woman passes, that is 0.00000033 deaths per vaccination.

This pause shows that the FDA and CDC are absolutely doing their job. This is likely to cause a hesitancy blip, but I'm really hoping our news media puts this into perspective and doesn't thwart our incredible progress so far.
 
In further perspective, 0.018 deaths have occurred per confirmed COVID positive in the US to date. Out of 6M JnJ doses, that would be 108k dead. Instead, we have 1. Even if the critically ill woman passes, that is 0.00000033 deaths per vaccination.

This pause shows that the FDA and CDC are absolutely doing their job. This is likely to cause a hesitancy blip, but I'm really hoping our news media puts this into perspective and doesn't thwart our incredible progress so far.

Ya I don't think that situation warrants a complete shut down on distribution. 1 death... I mean how many people will end up dying because they are not vaccinated due to it no longer being available?
 
Ya I don't think that situation warrants a complete shut down on distribution. 1 death... I mean how many people will end up dying because they are not vaccinated due to it no longer being available?
I agree that a literal 1:1,000,000 chance (right now) is insignificant (who wouldn't, really). However, if the news outlets would have run with deaths and ill effects while the FDA and CDC sit idly by and do "nothing," it would have been orders of magnitude worse for hesitancy issues. The fodder, ill-conceived or not, would have been there for the hardcore anti-vax crowd.

We have such a short attention span, collectively, that a couple weeks' pause isn't going to do much long term. I'm glad these steps were taken. It allows the message to really get out there that our safety really is at the forefront, before profits and self-aggrandizing behavior. Warranted or not, a change in recommended age groups, gender, or both, for receipt of the JnJ vaccine is the likely outcome here. The types of clots seen here occur in about 5/1M in the general population, with a 3:1 occurrence among women. Maybe much ado about nothing, at least the correct people are taking the correct steps.

Also, remember that one of the issues suspected of causing both severe and "long" COVID is the issue of microemboli (essentially multiple capillaries clotting/stroking) leading to multi-system organ failure. While this finding isn't exciting by any means, it may be a product of our natural immunologic response. To date, roughly 130M people have received an mRNA vaccine. 67M of those people have received two doses. We haven't had a safety pause on those yet. It's incredible how safe and effective these vaccines truly are. That's the real message here.

Our hesitancy fears may be a little unfounded, as well. After a bumpy start and pauses galore with AZ, the EU is finally getting on track with their vaccination program, illustrating that the public may soon forget if the cases and deaths from COVID continue at their currently high clip.
 
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I agree that a literal 1:1,000,000 chance (right now) is insignificant (who wouldn't, really). However, if the news outlets would have run with deaths and ill effects while the FDA and CDC sit idly by and do "nothing," it would have been orders of magnitude worse for hesitancy issues. The fodder, ill-conceived or not, would have been there for the tinfoil hat crowd.

I didn't get mine thinking they were risk free either. People should expect with ANY vaccine that they come with risks. As does walking down a flight of stairs.
 
FDA recommends halting Johnson & Johnson vaccine “out of an abundance of caution” as it investigates reports of blood clotting issues in 6 women, one of which has died. Another is currently in critical condition.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/13/us-...n-johnson-vaccine-due-to-clotting-issues.html
This is why we cannot be mandating these right now.

They are just alting them out of precaution.

Chances are it will be just like AstraZeneca and they'll restart with vaccination in a few days.

And... There are other vaccines available.
 
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