The Vaccine Discussion Thread

[PrincessShmoo]

Some say the cruise lines are unlikely to be able to re-open if they require vaccinations, due to the Florida governor's executive order.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story...d-delay-cruise-industry-reopening/7097957002/

It's my understanding that he really can't control whether cruise lines can require vaccinations or not. Especially if the requirement is due to a foreign port requiring it for the ship to port there.

 

[mevelandry]

Some say the cruise lines are unlikely to be able to re-open if they require vaccinations, due to the Florida governor's executive order.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story...d-delay-cruise-industry-reopening/7097957002/

I have absolutely no problem sailing from another state, if that’s what it takes...

Thankfully we still haven’t booked any flights for our family cruise yet and the points I used for my ladies trip can be refunded.

 

[Birdie dog]

No matter what the Florida governor thinks, he can't control what the cruise Ines require. The cruise companies are international and traveling to international destinations.
I don't think he has the power to tell private business what they can do either, but we'll see. There will be legal tests, I"m sure. And this year both Pfizer and Moderna will apply for their Biological License Application this year. Once it's approved, the vaccines lose their "Emergency Use" standing and become like any other vaccine. Then if vaccines are required, (school, camps etc) they can't discriminate against the Covid vaccines.

 

[TestingH2O]

I think the domestic vaccine passport discussion is just political theater to keep a certain segment of the population whipped up and thinking that the government is out to get them. The only people this benefits are those who cater to that group as a base.

What concerns me more is that this resistance to any sort of federal, official vaccine record keeping is going to make it harder for Americans to obtain the required documentation necessary for international travel. While the yellow fever paper was used in the past, I have a hard time believing that other countries won’t require more stringent checks on vaccination status. And despite what many of these vaccine passport opponents think, their freedoms don’t mean squat when they want to travel out of the country.

 

[mevelandry]

I think the domestic vaccine passport discussion is just political theater to keep a certain segment of the population whipped up and thinking that the government is out to get them. The only people this benefits are those who cater to that group as a base.

What concerns me more is that this resistance to any sort of federal, official vaccine record keeping is going to make it harder for Americans to obtain the required documentation necessary for international travel. While the yellow fever paper was used in the past, I have a hard time believing that other countries won’t require more stringent checks on vaccination status. And despite what many of these vaccine passport opponents think, their freedoms don’t mean squat when they want to travel out of the country.

Agreed.

There is an expression here that translate like this: "Your freedom stops where someone else's freedom starts".

With international travel, (Edited) countries will most likely make it necessary to present some proof of vaccination. They'll need it to board the vehicle (bus, plane, ship, etc)

 

[ford91exploder]

I'll be curious to see how long it is actually effective, given the mutations and re-infections that are occurring. Hopefully it is the first step to what I'm sure will be a seasonal vaccination like the flu.

The interesting thing while it's likely to be an annual vaccination like the flu which also mutates at a furious rate, we may be halfway to curing the common cold as well as colds are caused by both rhinoviruses AND other types of coronaviruses

 

[jerry557]

I think the domestic vaccine passport discussion is just political theater to keep a certain segment of the population whipped up and thinking that the government is out to get them. The only people this benefits are those who cater to that group as a base.

What concerns me more is that this resistance to any sort of federal, official vaccine record keeping is going to make it harder for Americans to obtain the required documentation necessary for international travel. While the yellow fever paper was used in the past, I have a hard time believing that other countries won’t require more stringent checks on vaccination status. And despite what many of these vaccine passport opponents think, their freedoms don’t mean squat when they want to travel out of the country.

Increasingly governors are signing orders to not just ban the “vaccine passport” but forbidding the government from assisting in verification efforts. So if some company or country doesn’t accept or like your CDC card for some reason...you’re going back home. There is no way to verify. And I imagine some criminal somewhere is already making a fortune selling phony vax cards.

 

[TestingH2O]

Increasingly governors are signing orders to not just ban the “vaccine passport” but forbidding the government from assisting in verification efforts. So if some company or country doesn’t accept or like your CDC card for some reason...you’re going back home. There is no way to verify. And I imagine some criminal somewhere is already making a fortune selling phony vax cards.

I just don't understand why it can't be a simple opt in process. No one is REQUIRED to have a passport unless they are traveling somewhere that requires it. Well, if we see vaccinations are required to participate in certain activities, anyone should be able to choose to get one so they can participate. Just like people are not required to travel to Switzerland, a country that requires a passport, no one is required to take a cruise, a type of travel that might require a vaccine. No one's freedoms are being violated. Everyone remains free to participate in the activities that have requirements.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

I just don't understand why it can't be a simple opt in process. No one is REQUIRED to have a passport unless they are traveling somewhere that requires it. Well, if we see vaccinations are required to participate in certain activities, anyone should be able to choose to get one so they can participate. Just like people are not required to travel to Switzerland, a country that requires a passport, no one is required to take a cruise, a type of travel that might require a vaccine. No one's freedoms are being violated. Everyone remains free to participate in the activities that have requirements.

Exactly!

 

[Birdie dog]

Increasingly governors are signing orders to not just ban the “vaccine passport” but forbidding the government from assisting in verification efforts. So if some company or country doesn’t accept or like your CDC card for some reason...you’re going back home. There is no way to verify. And I imagine some criminal somewhere is already making a fortune selling phony vax cards.

Not arguing. I haven't seen anything about governors blocking verification access. This makes me furious. No one has the right to limit me proving my vaccination. Them making it so I can't get a vaccine passport is more infringing on my rights than someone not being allowed into someplace because they made a choice not to be vaccinated. I'm vaccinated and I should have no problems giving legal proof to that.

 

[mevelandry]

Increasingly governors are signing orders to not just ban the “vaccine passport” but forbidding the government from assisting in verification efforts. So if some company or country doesn’t accept or like your CDC card for some reason...you’re going back home. There is no way to verify. And I imagine some criminal somewhere is already making a fortune selling phony vax cards.

I'm pretty sure they can verify the info somehow because when we got vaccinated, on our proof of vaccine they put the serial number of the vial and a bar code that can be scanned.

 

[Birdie dog]

I'm pretty sure they can verified the info somehow because when you get vaccinated, on our proof of vaccine they put the serial number of the vial and a bar code that can be scanned.

I give vaccines. I know that in SC, we enter the vaccines in two places, the hospital (that I work for and vaccinate for) website and also VAMS. I can get my info off VAMS including date, time, and vial serial numbers. I've actually printed it and saved it on my phone. But, I feel like we'll need an actual scan-able app, when it comes time to really travel.

 

[jerry557]

I just don't understand why it can't be a simple opt in process. No one is REQUIRED to have a passport unless they are traveling somewhere that requires it. Well, if we see vaccinations are required to participate in certain activities, anyone should be able to choose to get one so they can participate. Just like people are not required to travel to Switzerland, a country that requires a passport, no one is required to take a cruise, a type of travel that might require a vaccine. No one's freedoms are being violated. Everyone remains free to participate in the activities that have requirements.

The big issue is the debate is going well beyond just vacation travel or cruise ships. There are discussions in some circles that you could need a “vax pass” to do anything from go to school, go to a sports game, movie theater, theme parks, social events, or even have a job. Some employers may try to require it. The accusation is that it will be make virtually impossible to socially function unless you “choose” to get the vaccine. So it becomes in essence a way of being forced.

When you see what DeSantis said, he said a person should not be forced to take the vaccine just to be allowed to participate in daily life. So if your choice to not vaccinate leaves you homeless and outcasted, is that really a choice?

Also the WHO recently came out with the statement that they don’t support vaccine passports right now. The White House claims to not support it either. They put out a statement saying there will be no federal database of who has taken the vaccine.

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2021-04-07/white-house-rejects-us-vaccine-passports

 

[Birdie dog]

The big issue is the debate is going well beyond just vacation travel or cruise ships. There are discussions in some circles that you could need a “vax pass” to do anything from go to school, go to a sports game, movie theater, theme parks, social events, or even have a job. Some employers may try to require it. The accusation is that it will be make virtually impossible to socially function unless you “choose” to get the vaccine. So it becomes in essence a way of being forced.

When you see what DeSantis said, he said a person should not be forced to take the vaccine just to be allowed to participate in daily life. So if your choice to not vaccinate leaves you homeless and outcasted, is that really a choice?

Also the WHO recently came out with the statement that they don’t support vaccine passports right now. The White House claims to not support it either. They put out a statement saying there will be no federal database of who has taken the vaccine.

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2021-04-07/white-house-rejects-us-vaccine-passports

In 2021, the vaccines will no longer be "emergency approved". Once they aren't, they can be required if other vaccines are required for school, work, etc. I am an ER nurse and I'm required to have a flu shot. My kids had to show vaccine cards for public school. Other countries can absolutely require them for travel. There is a time when the government has to step up and say, this is for the good of the people. And the vaccine is for the good of the people.

 

[DCLMP]

I think the domestic vaccine passport discussion is just political theater to keep a certain segment of the population whipped up and thinking that the government is out to get them. The only people this benefits are those who cater to that group as a base.

What concerns me more is that this resistance to any sort of federal, official vaccine record keeping is going to make it harder for Americans to obtain the required documentation necessary for international travel. While the yellow fever paper was used in the past, I have a hard time believing that other countries won’t require more stringent checks on vaccination status. And despite what many of these vaccine passport opponents think, their freedoms don’t mean squat when they want to travel out of the country.

It’s not just “some“ Americans that are opposed to these passports. You are also seeing resistance and protests in other countries. Where this all leads is the question.

 

[TestingH2O]

If the government and society were going to make it mandatory and create a vaccine passport system, that should have been made clear from day one. Instead, the government keeps telling us it won't be mandatory. You can't just change your mind in a few months and not have political consequences....

Making a vaccine mandatory and creating a vaccine passport system are two different things.

Making it mandatory says that everyone has to get it. Full stop. I assume at some point medical and religious exemptions would be allowed just like they are for MMR etc, but everyone is supposed to get it.

A vaccine passport though is evidence that a person has chosen to be vaccinated. If other countries require documentation from the federal government in order to travel there, then it is the government's responsibility to have a way for citizens to acquire the required documentation just like it is their responsibility to issue a regular passport. Do I have to show my travel passport in everyday life? Well, since my state finally adopted Real ID, no. If I want to be granted access to a foreign country? Yes. Saying that the government must not create a vaccine passport is like saying they should stop issuing blue book passports. If Americans want to interact with people on a global scale, then the government needs to find a way to allow that to happen. Should we bar nonvaccinated people from the grocery store? I can't think of a good reason for it. Should I have access to a legal record of my vaccination so that I can participate in other activities that I choose to do? Yes, I should have access to that type of documentation if I need it.

 

[ford91exploder]

The problem with the 'vaccine passport' is big tech and the credit reporting industry were salivating over the possibilities of creating a 'social credit' system just like they have in china Covid vaccination money would jumpstart the business for them.

The problem with the vaccine passports is the wannabe Ii Duce's of the world saw it as a way to decide who is allowed to participate in civil society BZZT, Wrong and the guy with the shepherd's crook yanks this bad idea off the stage.

Now I support the idea of an international vaccine passport, because I travel everywhere in non-Covid times it would be really useful if when I was planning the visit I could check my vaccine data and before a trip to NZ for instance and know beforehand if I need to get any additional vaccinations before my trip. Just like a Identity passport it has a SINGLE well defined function, i.e. do I have the necessary vaccines to go to X, When I went to Karnataka state in India I felt like a pincushion.

 

[jerry557]

DeSantis *can't* stop private business from requiring proof of vaccine. His order can't be enforced and I'm looking forward to it going to court. And do you think DCL will pack up and move to another state, as well as *all* the other cruise lines because they're ALL requiring vaccination to board. The millions and millions of dollars in revenue lost because the Florida governor is having a temper tantrum ain't going to happen.

As far as when the vaccine is fully licensed, any other entity that requires vaccines can require them ALL. Do you know of schools, camps or medical setting that mandate polio but not DPT? My hospital requires flu shots. Because the Covid vaccine is still under EUA, they can't require it- yet. Next year, if the vaccines show they need a booster and it's been fully authorised, you can bet that my hospital will require that too. Business, hospitals, schools, do not want to be the cause of further outbreaks. And any governor that can't see that they're hampering the end of the pandemic, IMO, shouldn't be governing.

The White House just said that they do not favor the idea that people carry around vaccine credentials to go about daily life. They say the federal government will not be issuing credentials, nor a vaccine passport, nor maintaining a database of those who are vaccinated. I just gave the link where they said that.

“The government is not now, nor will we be, supporting a system that requires Americans to carry a credential,” Psaki told reporters at the White House on Tuesday. “There will be no federal vaccinations database and no federal mandate requiring everyone to obtain a single vaccination credential.”

Are you saying they are lying?

 

[Birdie dog]

The White House just said that they do not favor the idea that people carry around vaccine credentials to go about daily life. They say the federal government will not be issuing credentials, nor a vaccine passport, nor maintaining a database of those who are vaccinated. I just gave the link where they said that.

“The government is not now, nor will we be, supporting a system that requires Americans to carry a credential,” Psaki told reporters at the White House on Tuesday. “There will be no federal vaccinations database and no federal mandate requiring everyone to obtain a single vaccination credential.”

Are you saying they are lying?

I'm saying that once this vaccine is no longer "experimental" anyone who currently requires vaccines can require it. And quite frankly, there is already a database. It's called VAMS. So the above isn't exactly factual.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

The White House just said that they do not favor the idea that people carry around vaccine credentials to go about daily life. They say the federal government will not be issuing credentials, nor a vaccine passport, nor maintaining a database of those who are vaccinated. I just gave the link where they said that.

“The government is not now, nor will we be, supporting a system that requires Americans to carry a credential,” Psaki told reporters at the White House on Tuesday. “There will be no federal vaccinations database and no federal mandate requiring everyone to obtain a single vaccination credential.”

Are you saying they are lying?

I'm not sure that there should be a system that requires US citizens to carry a credential, or require them to to have a single vaccination credential. I believe what people want is just a document/form that would show they had the vaccine for whatever purpose the individual needs it for. Much like the "old fashioned" yellow immunization record that many of us have.