The US will never understand Islam....

[eclectics]

ann coulter is a satarist. as far as i know ann coulter hasn't invaded countries, killed their leaders and converted them. islam has. in fact, most islamic countries have become so by the sword. if you are a woman in saudi arabia, try driving a car or reading a BIBLE. in fact, try smuggling a BIBLE into the country.

Interesting definition of her, cause when asked if she really means the things she says, her response is "I wouldn't say them if I didn't believe them". I think you are the only one left in her fan club.

 

[DawnCt1]

No, but President Bush who listens to her has.

i didn't realize that ann coulter was a member of the cabinet. who knew? no, i don't think President Bush listens to ann coulter any more than he listen to you.

 

[punkin]

i don't think President Bush listens to ann coulter any more than he listen to you.

Agreed. He only listens to the voices inside his head and thinks he is speaking directly to God.

 

[Mrs.Toad]

Yes, but that is Ann Coulter... consider the idiotic source.

This is exactly what my peace-loving Muslim friends think about the Muslim terrorists. They are completely wacked-out idiots whom no one could possibly think represent all Muslims.

But these friends are lay people, not religious leaders. I agree that peaceful Muslim leaders need to publicly denounce what the terrorists are doing and band together to do something about it. I think they don't, not because they agree with the terrorists, but because they are afraid for their own lives.

 

[DawnCt1]

I agree that peaceful Muslim leaders need to publicly denounce what the terrorists are doing and band together to do something about it. I think they don't, not because they agree with the terrorists, but because they are afraid for their own lives.

When the imams do decide to "speak out", the board a us air jet, behave suspiciously, arrousing fear in not only the english speaking passengers and crew but a muslim passenger who reported what he was hearing in arabic. and then they speak out that they were mistreated.

 

[DawnCt1]

Agreed. He only listens to the voices inside his head and thinks he is speaking directly to God.

even you must recognize that your statement is totally ridiculous.

 

[Chloe'sMom]

ann coulter is a satarist. as far as i know ann coulter hasn't invaded countries, killed their leaders and converted them. islam has. in fact, most islamic countries have become so by the sword. if you are a woman in saudi arabia, try driving a car or reading a BIBLE. in fact, try smuggling a BIBLE into the country.

Islam has not! People have! Would you say that Christians bombed abortion clinics? Or would you say that individuals bomed abortion clinics? You can't lump all of Islam into one catergory. I know many Islamic people and they are disgusted with the way their religion gets twisted for the sake of individuals.

Not to mention terrorist also laugh all the way to the bank, just like anne coulter - they both spread hatred and intolerance and they are both well funded for doing so. Just like Osama wasn't on the planes that hit the towers, anne wouldn't be the one holding the sword.

I don't know why I open these threads. Papa in reality all you are doing is spreading more and more ignorance and intolerance with this kind of post. Americans won't understand Islam because America has taken strides to keep their Church and their Goverment seperate. This protects American's from becoming the kind of country you made an example of. Just once I would love to see you and Dawn actually post something that wasn't condemning a whole lot of people.

Hey Dawn - still wishing assisanation on world leaders?

Peace and Love!

~Amanda

 

[Papa Deuce]

Papa... Just once I would love to see you and Dawn actually post something that wasn't condemning a whole lot of people.

Hey Dawn - still wishing assisanation on world leaders?

Peace and Love!

~Amanda

So we shouldn't condem terrorists? And I have not labelled all Islamists as bad or terrorists. I do want to know how come the "TRUE" Muslims aren't stepping up to the plate.

Let's just say - and I have no real number - that 2% of all Muslims are of this fanatical nature.... that would leave 98% of them to AT LEAST say the rights things, and hopefully do the right things. So where are they? I'm not hearing anything from the leaders of that 98%.

 

[Laura]

ann coulter is a satarist. as far as i know ann coulter hasn't invaded countries, killed their leaders and converted them. islam has. in fact, most islamic countries have become so by the sword. if you are a woman in saudi arabia, try driving a car or reading a BIBLE. in fact, try smuggling a BIBLE into the country.

Satanist or satirist? I thought she was neither.

And yeah, more examples of why it's great that church and state are separate here.

 

[Chloe'sMom]

So we shouldn't condem terrorists? And I have not labelled all Islamists as bad or terrorists. I do want to know how come the "TRUE" Muslims aren't stepping up to the plate.

Let's just say - and I have no real number - that 2% of all Muslims are of this fanatical nature.... that would leave 98% of them to AT LEAST say the rights things, and hopefully do the right things. So where are they? I'm not hearing anything from the leaders of that 98%.

Probably hanging out with the 98% of Christians who think Anne Coulter and Pat Robinson are crazy.

 

[Laura]

So we shouldn't condem terrorists? And I have not labelled all Islamists as bad or terrorists. I do want to know how come the "TRUE" Muslims aren't stepping up to the plate.

Let's just say - and I have no real number - that 2% of all Muslims are of this fanatical nature.... that would leave 98% of them to AT LEAST say the rights things, and hopefully do the right things. So where are they? I'm not hearing anything from the leaders of that 98%.

That's because you're not listening. Plenty of Muslim leaders have denounced acts of terrorism. Is there some specific response to an event that you need linked to?

You may never understand another religion. But it's obvious you and Dawn aren't even attempting to.

 

[JennyMominRI]

That's because you're not listening. Plenty of Muslim leaders have denounced acts of terrorism. Is there some specific response to an event that you need linked to?

You may never understand another religion. But it's obvious you and Dawn aren't even attempting to.

I have repeatedly posted links to Muslims and Muslim organizations condemning terrorism..No one ever seems to respond to them.

 

[Crankyshank]

There is no longer one united Umma (Muslim community). While it would be nice to come out and have a united front against the extremists, there isn't exactly a united front coming out against Christian whack jobs that have Diarrhea of the mouth and are clamoring for Christians to eradicate Muslims. there have been examples posted here before of Islamic leaders speaking out against terrorism. What do you want? A daily unified chant?

Our leaders don't speak out against every nation with horrific civil rights policies. Why not instead take a moment to educate yourself on what Islam is and the sects of Islam and realize for yourself that much like abortion clinic bombers, Islamic terrorists are not the majority of Muslims.

Geez. I tried to give a thoughtful answer on what is breeding this behavior and what sect of Islam are terrorists and SMMOG I even tried to give some information and it appears that was for naught.

 

[Chloe'sMom]

http://groups.colgate.edu/aarislam/response.htm

Monday, September 17, 2001


Dozens of scholars of Islam issued a statement today, condemning the violent attacks of September 11th.

“We are grief-stricken at these horrifying events,” they wrote; “the murder of innocents can never be justified and must not be tolerated.”
In a lengthy statement, professors from major colleges and universities throughout the country expressed their compassion for grieving family members while also decrying the increase in violence against American Muslims this past week. “Anger and frustration are completely understandable and shared by us all,” they wrote “yet that anger must not be directed at individuals utterly innocent of these terrible crimes.”

In recent days, verbal and physical attacks against Muslims (and people who were thought to be Muslims) have been reported from California to Vermont. Muslims have been warned to stay home or to avoid wearing traditional dress. “Particularly distressing is the fact that many American Muslims have fled to the United States, seeking a haven from intolerant regimes in Kosovo, Afghanistan or Iraq. For them now to face intolerance and violence here is an abuse of our Nation’s most deeply cherished beliefs” they said.

The co-signers of the statement are members of many scholarly societies in the United States and Canada. They include:


Professor Asma Afsaruddin, of Notre Dame University
Professor Vivienne Sm. Angeles, La Salle University
Professor Ghazala Anwar of the University of Canterbury, New Zealand
Professor Jonathan Brockopp, Director of the Religion Program at Bard College
Professor Patrice C. Brodeur of Connecticut College
Professor Arthur Buehler of Louisiana State University
Professor Amila Buturovic of York University
Professor Juan E. Campo of the University of California, Santa Barbara
Professor Vincent J. Cornell of University of Arkansas
Professor Frederick M. Denny Chair of Islamic Studies and the History of Religions, University of Colorado
Professor Abdullahi Gallab of Hiram College
Professor Behrooz Ghamari of Georgia State University
Professor Alan Godlas of University of Georgia
Professor Hugh Talat Halman, of University of Arkansas
Professor Pieternella (Nelly) Harder Vandoorn,, of Valparaiso University
Professor Marcia Hermansen of Loyola University, Chicago
Professor Valerie J. Hoffman, of University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Professor Qamar ul-Huda, of Boston College
Professor Aaron Hughes of the University of Calgary
Professor Amir Hussain of California State University, Northridge
Professor John Iskander of Georgia State Univeristy
Professor Ahmet Karamustafa of Washington University in St. Louis
Professor Tazim Kassam of Syracuse University
Professor Zayn Kassam of Pomona College
Professor Ruqayya Khan of University of California at Santa Barbara
Professor Kathryn Kueny, of Lawrence College
Professor Jane Dammen McAuliffe, Dean of the College, Georgetown University
Professor Richard C. Martin, Emory University
Professor J.W. Morris, Chair of Islamic Studies at the University of Exeter
Professor Gordon D. Newby, Executive Director, Institute for Comparative and International Studies at Emory University
Professor James Pavlin of Rutgers University
Professor Jack Renard of St. Louis University
Professor Omid Safi of Colgate University
Professor Walid Saleh of Middlebury College
Professor Zeki Saritoprak of Berry College
Professor Michael Sells, Haverford College
Professor Laury Silvers-Alario of Holy Cross University
Professor Alfons Teipen of Furman University


The full text of the statement follows.
For more information, contact Jonathan Brockopp at 845-876-4927 or see the website of the Study of Islam Section.
For more information on Islam, see the web page on Islam and Islamic Studies.

 

[punkin]

even you must recognize that your statement is totally ridiculous.

Really? You mean Bush neer said that God told him to invade Iraq? I'm sure I read that somewhere....


ETA: Here's a link I just found googling for it http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2005/10_october/06/bush.shtml

This is not where I originally saw it, but it seems similar.

 

[Chloe'sMom]

http://islam.about.com/cs/currentevents/a/9_11statements.htm

Muslim Condemnations of 9/11
From Huda,
Your Guide to Islam.
FREE Newsletter. Sign Up Now!
Muslim leaders speak out against violence and terrorism
In the aftermath of the violence and horror of 9/11, criticisms were made that Muslim leaders and organizations were not outspoken enough in denouncing acts of terrorism. Muslims are constantly perplexed by this accusation, as we heard (and continue to hear) nothing but unequivocal and unified condemnations by the leaders of our community, both in the United States and worldwide. But for some reason, people are not listening.

For the record, the inhuman attacks of September 11 were condemned in the strongest terms by virtually all Islamic leaders, organizations, and countries. TheGrand Mufti of Saudi Arabia summarized that, "...hijacking planes, terrorizing innocent people and shedding blood, constitute a form of injustice that cannot be tolerated by Islam, which views them as gross crimes and sinful acts."

For more statements by Islamic leaders, see the following compilations:

Scholars of Islam and the Tragedy of September 11th - statements compiled by over 50 professors of Islamic Studies and Middle Eastern Studies from the U.S.

and Canada, members of the American Academy of Religion in Atlanta, GA

Islamic Statements Against Terrorism in the Wake of the September 11 Mass Murders - compiled by Professor Charles Kurzman, University of North Carolina

Muslim American Groups Denounce Terrorist Attacks - from the U.S. Department of State, September 12, 2001

Kuala Lumpur Declaration on International Terrorism - unanimously adopted at the April 2002 conference of the Islamic Conference of Foreign Ministers (held by the 56 member nations/states of the Organization of Islamic Conference)

 

[Crankyshank]

Probably hanging out with the 98% of Christians who think Anne Coulter and Pat Robinson are crazy.

No they're selling sweaters at the Gap and perpetuating the war against Christmas.

 

[Chloe'sMom]

No they're selling sweaters at the Gap and perpetuating the war against Christmas.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I am by no means an expert on Religious history or Islam. I am a military history buff and can tell you that virtually every religion has carried out some pretty monstorous acts in the name of their faith, Christians included. What I see with Islam is that its more than just a religious belief or act. Its more like a social and economic struggle. As an earlier poster stated Islam has tended to catch on in the poor and impoverished nations and the vast majority of its followers are impoverished. Now ther are exceptions, Bin Laden is from a wealthy Arab family and there are a few others you can name more but for the most part the masses who carry out the acts are the impoverished. That leads me to my belief that a lot of the violence is really stemming from desperation. Imagine living in a third world country where you struggle everyday to live. Basics like food, clean water, and medical care are almost impossible to attain. You see America and the abundance of wealth and what your leaders call decadence occuring in that country. You are very easily convinced that they are your enemey and having little to live for you are a very easy convert to radical Islam. I mean even a strict interpretation of the Christian Bible would and does lead many to believe there is a huge amount of moral decay in the US. The bible calls for help for the poor and the sick and while it is a parable with a not so clear meaning Jesus did tell the wealthy man who wanted to receive the Kingdom of heaven that to do so he should give away all his wealth.

So my point through all this rambling is simply this: is radicall Islam something that uses its teachings to commit acts or is their condition what leads them to their acts and radical Islam is just their justification.

Excellent rambling. Notice that Osama is not the one piloting the plane into the building or strapping bombs to his chest. The leaders find these people that are disadvantaged and angry about it and then use that anger to fulfill their own bizarre world view.
I don't believe that we should think that just giving the countries economic aid will fix the problem. I don't think it's that simple. I do think that bringing some economic stability will help, but I don't think it will eradicate the problem entirely.

 

[bicker]

there is a huge difference because there are no Christian fundamentalist leaders that would not condemn violence and conversion "by the sword".

I disagree that the difference is significant. Indeed, perhaps it is better to be honest about advocating violence versus how some fundamentalist Christian leaders go about advocating it, by misdirectly, lying, and secrecy.

Remember, the spiritual leaders of violent Christian entities lead as much of the Christian world as the spiritual leaders of the extreme wings of Islam. There are hundreds of millions of Muslims led by spiritual leaders who uniformly condemn violence.