The US will never understand Islam....

Chloe'sMom said:
Islam has not! People have! Would you say that Christians bombed abortion clinics? Or would you say that individuals bomed abortion clinics? You can't lump all of Islam into one catergory. I know many Islamic people and they are disgusted with the way their religion gets twisted for the sake of individuals.


I don't know why I open these threads. Papa in reality all you are doing is spreading more and more ignorance and intolerance with this kind of post. Americans won't understand Islam because America has taken strides to keep their Church and their Goverment seperate. This protects American's from becoming the kind of country you made an example of. Just once I would love to see you and Dawn actually post something that wasn't condemning a whole lot of people.

Hey Dawn - still wishing assisanation on world leaders?

Peace and Love!

~Amanda

No, Castro is going to die on his own; with a little luck of course.
I think you need to take a serious look at how islamic countries that abide by sharia law operate and you will see that they are very much in sinque with the koran. of course there are moderate muslims who are appalled by such things as terrorism, jihad, etc. perhaps that is why they have chosen to live here and you have gotton to know them. the same can't be said of many who live in islamic countries, attend the madrasas and preach hate. one just has to turn on the news. while they are a rarity in the usa. they are much more prevalent abroad. surely you recall the riots that france endured last year with neighborhoods that the police are afraid to enter. islam is in need of a reformation and a leader who can emerge and preach moderation. i don't see him on the horizon. i stress "him" because women need not apply.
 
DawnCt1 said:
ann coulter is a satarist. as far as i know ann coulter hasn't invaded countries, killed their leaders and converted them. islam has. in fact, most islamic countries have become so by the sword. if you are a woman in saudi arabia, try driving a car or reading a BIBLE. in fact, try smuggling a BIBLE into the country.

Two points:

1) Ann Coulter is a horse's ***.

2) How come we're not trying to convert Saudi Arabia to democracy?
 
DawnCt1 said:
i didn't realize that ann coulter was a member of the cabinet. :confused3 who knew? no, i don't think President Bush listens to ann coulter any more than he listen to you.

But, he did listen to Ted Haggard ............ every Monday via conference call.
 
Chloe'sMom said:
Would you say that Christians bombed abortion clinics?

~Amanda

Maybe I missed something, but when was the last time someone died from a an abortion clinic being bombed?
 

Interestingly, I'm from a country where 'terrorism' didn't begin on 9/11 - for many years, we suffered bombings, murders and violence in the name of religion. The leaders of these murderers were financed by prominant people in other countries who claimed they were 'freedom-fighters'. We became terrified of people with a certain 'accent' and people became scared to use public transport in case these people decided to strike.

However, these were not Muslims they were CHRISTIANS...the financiers were AMERICANS............The IRA was their name!!!!!
 
JennyMominRI said:
I have repeatedly posted links to Muslims and Muslim organizations condemning terrorism..No one ever seems to respond to them.

You're confusing them with facts and the facts don't fit the cherished belief or the agenda.
 
JMD said:
Maybe I missed something, but when was the last time someone died from a an abortion clinic being bombed?

Thankfully it's been awhile - but it has happened and all in the name of Christianity.
~Amanda
 
Crankyshank said:
Our leaders don't speak out against every nation with horrific civil rights policies. :confused3

No, they hold hands with them .............. Bush and Prince Abdullah of Saudi Arabia.
 
Here is another example of a Muslim Speaking out against Terrorism...

http://www.tulsaworld.com/NewsStory.asp?ID=061201_Ne_A16_Local20348

What was the response from the Muslim community? He was assaulted and kicked out of his mosque.

Miftah was banned last week after a confrontation at the mosque over a guest commentary he wrote that appeared Oct. 29 in the Tulsa World.

In it, Miftah criticized Osama bin Laden and other terrorists and suggested some U.S. mosques have been collecting money for them.

Miftah filed a police report stating that he was backed up against a wall after Nov. 18 prayers by two men who harassed him and called him anti-Muslim.

He said he was not struck, but was shaken up by the incident, in which one man waved a shoe in his face, an Arab insult.

He said he filed a police report about the incident because he feared for the safety of his family.
 
DawnCt1 said:
No, Castro is going to die on his own; with a little luck of course.
I think you need to take a serious look at how islamic countries that abide by sharia law operate and you will see that they are very much in sinque with the koran. of course there are moderate muslims who are appalled by such things as terrorism, jihad, etc. perhaps that is why they have chosen to live here and you have gotton to know them. the same can't be said of many who live in islamic countries, attend the madrasas and preach hate. one just has to turn on the news. while they are a rarity in the usa. they are much more prevalent abroad. surely you recall the riots that france endured last year with neighborhoods that the police are afraid to enter. islam is in need of a reformation and a leader who can emerge and preach moderation. i don't see him on the horizon. i stress "him" because women need not apply.

Assume away! Did I ever state that my Islamic friends live here in the states? In fact 2 of them live in Iran, and another in Kuwait.

Yes I recall everything you stated. Do you recall abortion clinics being bombed by Christians? It is the SAME THING. Individuals taking their religious beliefs to the extreme for their own selfish purposes and nothing more.

I am so very thankful that I live in the United States because of freedom of speech - which means I can learn from many different sources. Some of these countries you are talking about have no such freedom. So it isn't so much that the people are violent but more that they are not educated.

Which is why I don't condemn the religion but those in power who opress their people from keeping them to be educated and learn the truth of their religion.

~Amanda
 
Chloe'sMom said:
Assume away! Did I ever state that my Islamic friends live here in the states? In fact 2 of them live in Iran, and another in Kuwait.

Yes I recall everything you stated. Do you recall abortion clinics being bombed by Christians? It is the SAME THING. Individuals taking their religious beliefs to the extreme for their own selfish purposes and nothing more.

I am so very thankful that I live in the United States because of freedom of speech - which means I can learn from many different sources. Some of these countries you are talking about have no such freedom. So it isn't so much that the people are violent but more that they are not educated.

Which is why I don't condemn the religion but those in power who opress their people from keeping them to be educated and learn the truth of their religion.

~Amanda

and how LONG AGO were there abortion clinics bombed? what happened to the perpetrators? they were arrested and imprisoned. its a rare event in the usa and to use it as an example particularly when we see world wide terrorism every day in the name of islam is disingenuous to say the least. in a theocracy such as all of those countries in question, the religion dictates the law. their religion is the reason for the lack of freedom and the oppression of women. we know a family who actually was returning to a moderate islamic country (qatar) after living in the usa for 5 years. his wife did not want to return because no matter how "moderate" it still spelled oppression for her.
 
I still see no responses to the links to Islamic leaders condeming violence.

I still see no-one here blasting the President for being friends with Saudi Arabia, a hotbed of "Islamo-fascism".

As long as people continue to paint with broad strokes about Muslims, instead of focusing on the problems, then we will continue to see more stories like this:

Houston Suburb Objects to Mosque

Houston Suburb Objects to Mosque Plans
By RASHA MADKOUR, Associated Press Writer
2 hours ago

KATY, Texas - A plan to build a mosque in this Houston suburb has triggered a neighborhood dispute, with community members warning the place will become a terrorist hotbed and one man threatening to hold pig races on Fridays just to offend the Muslims.

Many neighborhood residents claim they have nothing against Muslims and are more concerned about property values, drainage and traffic.

But one resident has set up an anti-Islamic Web site with an odometer-like counter that keeps track of terrorist attacks since Sept. 11. A committee has formed to buy another property and offer to trade it for the Muslims' land. And next-door neighbor Craig Baker has threatened to race pigs on the edge of the property on the Muslim holy day. Muslims consider pigs unclean and do not eat pork.

"The neighbors have created havoc for us and we didn't expect that," said engineer Kamel Fotouh, president of the 500-member Katy Islamic Association.

Fotouh vowed to press ahead with plans for a mosque on the 11-acre site, as well as a community center that would offer after-school activities, housing for senior citizens, a fitness center and an Islamic school.

"We just bought it," Fotouh said. "And we are going to use it. We have the right like any one of them."

Katy, population 13,000, is a mix of middle-class bedroom-community neighborhoods and small farms on Houston's western edge and boasts of being the hometown of Oscar-winning actress Renee Zellweger. It is 70 percent white and 24 percent Hispanic.

The Houston metropolitan area has about 170,000 Muslims, according to the Islamic Society of Greater Houston, and among their many mosques is one built in Houston by former NBA star Hakeem Olajuwon.

The Islamic association bought the land in Katy in September for $1.1 million. It said the overall cost of the project has not been determined.

The dispute began when the group asked Baker to remove his cattle from their newly bought land. Baker agreed but mistakenly thought the Muslims also wanted him off the land his family has lived on for more than 100 years. The rumor spread.

Baker, who makes marble and granite fixtures for kitchens and bathrooms and also owns livestock, said he got so mad he put up a sign announcing the pig races.

(Baker's attempt to offend missed its mark, according to Fotouh. Muslims do not hate pigs, he said; they just don't eat them.)

As for the Web site, the address is virtually identical to that of the Katy Islamic Association. The site claims the neighbors will have to hear the Muslim call to prayer from the mosque's minaret five times a day _ the Islamic group denies that _ and offers an audio sample.

Besides keeping track of the running total of post-Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, the Web site provides home addresses of some association members and advises people who see anything suspicious to contact the FBI. Many people have sent anti-Islamic e-mails to the site.

A few complaints about the mosque project have also trickled in to Harris County offices: The "Coming Soon" sign was on government property; the parking lot gravel was piled up without a permit; the project would increase traffic in the quiet neighborhood.

County Commissioner Steve Radack said traffic concerns can be addressed as they are elsewhere, with off-duty police officers. He also noted the group has said it would comply with rules on drainage and flood control.

Cynthia Blackman wrote Radack that the center was a security risk: "Would you and your family safely and comfortably live next to this 11-acre Muslim mosque and facilities?"

The reaction has not been all negative. Fotouh said one man came to the mosque on a Friday afternoon and apologized for his neighbors. "He moved me, really," Fotouh said. "The sense of fairness, the sense of standing by the underdog."

Though he now concedes the Muslims are probably not after his land, Baker said he is obligated to go through with the pig races, probably within the next few weeks, because "I would be like a total idiot if I didn't. I'd be the laughingstock now because I've gone too far."

___

On the Net:

http://www.katyislamicassociation.com

http://www.katyislamicassociation.net
 
DawnCt1 said:
and how LONG AGO were there abortion clinics bombed? what happened to the perpetrators? they were arrested and imprisoned. its a rare event in the usa and to use it as an example particularly when we see world wide terrorism every day in the name of islam is disingenuous to say the least. in a theocracy such as all of those countries in question, the religion dictates the law. their religion is the reason for the lack of freedom and the oppression of women. we know a family who actually was returning to a moderate islamic country (qatar) after living in the usa for 5 years. his wife did not want to return because no matter how "moderate" it still spelled oppression for her.

I'll admitt it was awhile ago and thankfully those people were caught. But don't fool yourself into thinking that those people weren't following their religious beliefes - because they were. Much like the man who kidnapped Elisabeth Smart was following his beliefs, or the mass suicide of that cult a few years ago.

Those who have the power keep those people oppressed - not their religion. And even in trying to set up a democracy in Iraq - Islam keeps coming up in their government. I think you are just looking for another reason to condemn anyone different from yourself and your beliefs which is why you paint :artist: with such a broad brush.
~Amanda
 
I'm all for freedom of religion...right up to the point where killing me becomes part of the ceremony. At that point, I don't care what religion the person is, they need to be either put in their place or killed.
 
Adults sure do bicker a LOT :sad2: . Islam, Christianity, and Judaism are all very much alike. Many people don't realize it though. And people who want to behead these people are extremists. Not to mention, Christians used to behead a lot of people too. I know all this and I'm in 6th grade :teacher: .
 
Cool-Beans said:
I'm all for freedom of religion...right up to the point where killing me becomes part of the ceremony. At that point, I don't care what religion the person is, they need to be either put in their place or killed.

It's not PART of the 'ceremony'. Just because a few sickos do stuff like that, doesn't mean that's how the whole religion thinks. If you found one shriveled up pecan in your whole crop, would you throw out every pecan?
 
Chloe'sMom said:
I'll admitt it was awhile ago and thankfully those people were caught. But don't fool yourself into thinking that those people weren't following their religious beliefes - because they were. Much like the man who kidnapped Elisabeth Smart was following his beliefs, or the mass suicide of that cult a few years ago.

Those who have the power keep those people oppressed - not their religion. And even in trying to set up a democracy in Iraq - Islam keeps coming up in their government. I think you are just looking for another reason to condemn anyone different from yourself and your beliefs which is why you paint :artist: with such a broad brush.
~Amanda

Again Amanda, the criminals may have been following "their beliefs" but they weren't following the teachings of their respective houses of worship. the same cannot be said of the graduates of the madrasas. the power in theocrasies come from the tenets of the faith. sharia law spells it out quite clearly.
 
CheezDoodle said:
Christians used to behead a lot of people too. I know all this and I'm in 6th grade :teacher: .

"used to" is the operative phrase here.
 
CheezDoodle said:
It's not PART of the 'ceremony'. Just because a few sickos do stuff like that, doesn't mean that's how the whole religion thinks. If you found one shriveled up pecan in your whole crop, would you throw out every pecan?
Please point out where I said that all members of any one religion all think the same thing.
 
Madrassas are primarily for Shi'ites and some radical Sunni's living in more politically heated areas. Not all Muslims attend Madrassas. They were created specifically to educate future Shi'ite Ulama. Shi'ites have entirely different interpretations of the Quran than Sunnis or Sufis. Sunnis actually make up the majority of the Muslim followers.

To base an opinion of Islam on the actions of Shi'ites is akin to judging all of Christianity based on the opinions of 7th Day Adventists
 


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