The things we do for our spawn...

[prestoncaldwell]

I love how you guys like to twist whatever people say. Please try to comprehend what I am saying. I never said that I am not against it, I just don't see it as necessary at such a young age and it most definitely won't hinder them in life to not have access to a computer as a toddler, like some of you seem to think. That is all that I am saying, your child will not suffer any lasting ills if they do not have access to a computer at that age. And replacing life skills with computer classes in third grade, is not a good idea.

That seems a bit young to be teaching computing. No wonder kids can't even make change anymore. SMH

I didn't put any words in your mouth. The above are yours. And again with your thinking kids are too stupid to learn more than "life skills." Not wasting any more time.

 

[prestoncaldwell]

I think it's funny & ironic that in a thread titled "The things we do for our spawn," intended to poke fun at ourselves for all of the things we swore we wouldn't do when we had kids, some of y'all are arguing about the things done for kids.

I think when we all recount what we've done in the context of this thread, we are implying that we had told ourselves we wouldn't do this when we had kids. Unless we're throwing tomatoes at others for the things they are doing for their kids, of course.

 

[dez1978]

I’ve learned that any time I start a sentence with the words “I will never…”, with regards to my kids, all I’m doing is guaranteeing that I will absolutely be unable to avoid that particular thing.

Murphy's law of parenting

I will go one further and find something that your kids like. My girls would never do dance or sports, they are just a bit too uncoordinated. Which is funny because I was in gymnastics. But my youngest did do choir and my oldest was in band and the cooking club. In my area, almost all sports are run by private companies and are extremely expensive and you have to try out for them. No playing sports just for fun here, it is very competitive even at the school level.

Its the opposite here. We only have school sponsored or parks and recs sports

My point was that there is so much stuff that kids are no longer learning, that they should be to replace that time with computer stuff. There is no need for a third grader to learn computing when they don't even have time to teach the basic life skills. There is plenty of time for that when you get to junior high and HS. I work in food and the amount of young people today that can't make basic change in their heads is shocking. Not to mention that they can't read cursive, as if it is another language. There is a whole young generation that did not have computer classes in elementary school that are doing just fine on their computer skills. Pretty much anyone in their 20s and older. Are they all "behind" in technology? Of course they are not. I am not saying that teaching computing is bad, just that it needs to be at an appropriate age and they still need to teach basic life skills too.

I do agree with you on the not being able to count back change. But thats been an issue for 20 plus years. When I was 21 I worked as a manager at a golden corral. I was always shocked at the fact that the high schoolers that worked there couldnt count back change if the register didn't tell them the correct amount. This was prob 1999.

I’m 41 and I had computer classes in elementary school. Frankly, my tech skills are abysmal and I wish I’d gotten a stronger foundation in learning those things when I was younger.

To the point of the thread, I can’t think of any major philosophical changes I’ve had since having kids. I parent pretty much the way I thought I would. One pleasant surprise is that parenting is not nearly as miserable an experience as I expected it to be based on all the complaining I’d always heard from parents about how awful it is.

You have been lucky lol. I love my children dearly, but parenting has been so much harder than I ever expected it to be.

Maybe that depends on where you were. For us(I am 48) that stuff wasn't until junior high. My children(20 &21) also did not get any of that in elementary school. Like I said, I know that computers are in every day life now. But my point was that even if a child does not have access to one at a young age, they are not going to be "behind" in life in any way. It's not like learning that stuff takes a lifetime. Some people are so afraid that if they don't give their preschooler a tablet, that they are somehow going to be disadvantaged in life and that is just not true.

I'm 43. We had computers in prob 3rd grade

We are talking about the very young here. Do you truly believe that if someone under the age of 10 does not get computer training that they will forever be "behind" everyone else and be a total computer illiterate? That makes zero sense. Like I said, where we live, we did not get any computer training until junior high, and that was the most basic of basics for only a quarter of a semester, not even half of the school year. And there were no coding classes in our HS either. Guess what? My husband is a programmer and a damned good one that has been with his company for 26 years. He learned after HS. So it didn't hinder him in any way to not learn about computers until adulthood. There is zero evidence that supports giving children technology at such a young age makes any difference when they get older.

I wouldn't think that computer literacy would be different than any other thing. Like sports.. Now kids are starting sports much younger than they did when I was a kid. My kids have been in competitive wrestling since kindergarten and tackle football in 3rd grade. Kids who don't start until 5/6th grade will generally not catch up to the kids who have been doing it their whole lives. Academics and computers would be the same I'd think. Of course a kid who has been doing coding since kindergarten will have an advantage over a kid who didn't start until jr high. That doesn't mean the kid that started later can't learn it or be sucessful at it, but it won't be as easy as it was for the one doing it all their lives. There does need to be a balance tho between learning and kid stuff.

 

[dez1978]

I think when we all recount what we've done in the context of this thread, we are implying that we had told ourselves we wouldn't do this when we had kids. Unless we're throwing tomatoes at others for the things they are doing for their kids, of course.

One of my least fav parts of parenting. No matter what or how you do it, someone somewhere will judge you for it lol.

Theres another thing I said I'd never do. Worry about what someone thinks of my parenting. Heck 1/2 of what I do is only after I've considered how it looks to others.

 

[sam_gordon]

We only have school sponsored or parks and recs sports

My kids have been in competitive wrestling since kindergarten and tackle football in 3rd grade.

umm... did the school or the parks and rec put on the "competitive wrestling" and football?

Kids who don't start until 5/6th grade will generally not catch up to the kids who have been doing it their whole lives.

I sort of agree with this, but there should be a place for EVERYONE to play. And kids CAN "catch up", maybe not with the top tier players, but by about HS, they should be able to contribute.

 

[mom2rtk]

I’m 41 and I had computer classes in elementary school. Frankly, my tech skills are abysmal and I wish I’d gotten a stronger foundation in learning those things when I was younger.

To the point of the thread, I can’t think of any major philosophical changes I’ve had since having kids. I parent pretty much the way I thought I would. One pleasant surprise is that parenting is not nearly as miserable an experience as I expected it to be based on all the complaining I’d always heard from parents about how awful it is.

Ever hear that phrase "little kids little problems, big kids big problems"........

Not that you should expect things to change. Mine are all young adults now and haven't presented us with any major problems. And I've really enjoyed the ride. But I promise they will challenge you in ways you haven't even contemplated yet.

 

[dez1978]

umm... did the school or the parks and rec put on the "competitive wrestling" and football?

I sort of agree with this, but there should be a place for EVERYONE to play. And kids CAN "catch up", maybe not with the top tier players, but by about HS, they should be able to contribute.

school sponsored wrestling and tackle football, parks and rec for flag football.

Editing for clarification: By school sponsored what I mean is we use the school team name, the school facilities and wear the logo. Youth wrestling (kindergarten-8th) is coached by volunteers, and parents pay per tournament. Tackle football (3-6th grade) is paid for by the parents, coaches are parents/volunteers and any $ for uniforms and such comes from selling concessions. In 7th grade it becomes coached and paid for by school funds. So I suppose technically it's not school stuff, but it's also not the same as these expensive competitive traveling leauges in bigger cities where they have pop warner leagues and "real" coaches and access to real trainers and equipment. We just have dads coaching using the high school equipment. I hope what I'm saying makes sense.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

I wonder if there was ever a time where someone griped about young elementary children learning how to count change. “Why do they need to know how to handle money at this age? They aren’t employed, they aren’t paying for things!” But, it wouldn’t make sense to withhold education based on arbitrary age restrictions, to wait until they needed to use the skill to teach it. We don’t teach three year olds the alphabet because a three year old needs to know the alphabet to get through their day, we teach it to them as the foundation for things they will need to know later in life. Computers are no different. If a kid is old enough to grasp it, then what’s the harm in teaching it?

Counting change seems like such a simple skill to those of us who know how to do it that it’s odd to think anyone wouldn’t be able to. However, it’s one of those “signs of the changing times” things, like knowing how to write in cursive. We live in a world that’s moving away from using cash in favor of paying by cards, iPhones, and watches. I’m sure cash payments are the minority for most cashiers these days and they don’t need to be able to calculate the change in their head because the screen does it for them. As long as they can count up some correct combination of coins and bills to return to you, they’re sufficiently skilled for what their job requires of them.

A lot of what is taught in schools today isn’t in the curriculum because it’s vital for preparing students to survive in “the real world.” It’s there because it’s a holdover from when the public school system was being formed in the 1800s, in a time when ship navigation was an important skill to have and formal documents were written in cursive. Today, those things don’t matter as much. Everything is typed, GPS exists, and the computers and calculators in our pockets solve the problems for us.

I think school curriculums need a huge overhaul and I agree there should be a big focus on basic life skills. But, what’s a basic life skill is going to be different today than it was in the past. I think back on all the time during my schooling spent learning about Mesopotamia, and the Globe Theatre, and quadratic equations and I wish someone had had the good sense to scrap that stuff and instead teach us about budgeting our money, doing our taxes, understanding mortgages, credit cards and interest and student loans, setting up retirement funds, 401k’s, Roth IRAs and, of course, computer literacy. Computers are a huge part of today’s world. At this point, they are a basic life skill.

 

[tvguy]

So they likely had wifi at home. You always describe your prior coworkers as some helpless babies, they probably were a lot more resourceful than many of the older workers. Maybe that is why most of the talk usually has a "get off my lawn" vibe. **Understand there will be less resourceful employees always no matter the time period we're talking about

If they couldn't connect to the Internet at home, no, no Wifi.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

And kids CAN "catch up", maybe not with the top tier players, but by about HS, they should be able to contribute.

I was watching something this past weekend wish I could remember it but they were talking about how our bones form when we're kids and how the things we do interact with that. Kids playing sports young literally change the way their bodies form, I think the example they gave was a pitcher whose arm bones lengthen/change because of the repetitive movement. In that way and a few others ways it can put them behind. There's no rule either way saying you'll be behind or you'll be able to catch up. Some kids can some kids can't.

I did acrobatics when I was like 3,4,5 I was able to bend backwards and walk that way on my hands and feet. If I tried to do that now in my 30s, if I had tried to do that in my 20s, honestly my very late teens I would not have had that flexibility. But I bet you since I started early had I kept up with it I would have been in a much better position to continue. Many gymnasts start early for that reason too, their bodies are malleable early on and they can maintain a flexibility and skill as their bodies grow.

Most kids will be able to do a sport in some way but it would also depend on their goal..is it for fun or is this something that they want as their college thing or their career and starting late may interact with that.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

If they couldn't connect to the Internet at home, no, no Wifi.

What I'm trying to say is it's very unlikely that they actually didn't have internet. I don't know a single person my age or in their 20s that doesn't have internet (and yes when I said wifi that's what I was meaning, back in my early days it would have been ethernet cables but let's be real few young people are going to have that hence why I kept repeating wifi) let alone a slew of them that would be at a workplace..other than not being able to afford it. So I'm guessing either you misunderstood (maybe they didn't have VPNs, connection speed, bandwidth, etc) or it's just another way to say how your prior coworkers (which you're now retired remember ) were helpless babies when I doubt they really were all that bad, otherwise man you hit the lottery on the worst of the worst of the absolute worst prior coworkers.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

Ever hear that phrase "little kids little problems, big kids big problems"........

Not that you should expect things to change. Mine are all young adults now and haven't presented us with any major problems. And I've really enjoyed the ride. But I promise they will challenge you in ways you haven't even contemplated yet.

I don’t mean that I expect my kids will never have problems or give me problems, I’m talking about the day-to-day grind of having kids that you always hear complaints about. The sleep deprivation, the exhaustion, the death of your social life or ability to have any time for yourself, missing conversations with other adults, the general annoyance of having kids in your face 24/7 sucking the life force out of you. That hasn’t been as bad as I expected based on what I’d heard from parents prior to having kids myself.

 

[jaybirdsmommy]

Good advice! But if your theater kid is really into it, you suddenly find yourself shuttling him to rehearsals, dance classes, voice lessons and performances. You might even find yourself watching the same show three times in one day! You have to see your kid do his lead role. Then you have to see the other casts where your friends' kids have the leads and your kids does a bunch of supporting roles. If your kid is in demand, several theater companies will invite him to audition and he'll end up doing 4-5 shows a year. He might even be rehearsing two shows at a time. You'll be thrilled when he finally gets his driver's license and you will even buy a new car so he can have one exclusively for his use. Then he'll audition for college musical theater programs and get into a really good one...over 2500 miles away. He'll get cast in shows at least once each semester, so you'll have to save your pennies to fly out and see them. Because you can't stay home and miss seeing your kid in a show. Yep, our theater kid cost us tons of time and money. I wouldn't trade a second of it!

We aren't quite there yet, but I've got a theater kid....practices all hours of the day and night. He's a techie, too so even if he isn't in the show, they still want him. He played a couple of sports over the years - theater is just as bad.


As to what I always said I'd never do.....NO DRUMS!!!!! What did my youngest get for Christmas after his music teacher told my husband he was a prodigy? (I thought there was a separate drum playing smilie, but apparently you get the whole band - if he isn't drumming, he's beat boxing and he and his guitar playing brother fight over the one amp constantly so I guess it fits).

 

[tvguy]

What I'm trying to say is it's very unlikely that they actually didn't have internet. I don't know a single person my age or in their 20s that doesn't have internet (and yes when I said wifi that's what I was meaning, back in my early days it would have been ethernet cables but let's be real few young people are going to have that hence why I kept repeating wifi) let alone a slew of them that would be at a workplace..other than not being able to afford it. So I'm guessing either you misunderstood (maybe they didn't have VPNs, connection speed, bandwidth, etc) or it's just another way to say how your prior coworkers (which you're now retired remember ) were helpless babies when I doubt they really were all that bad, otherwise man you hit the lottery on the worst of the worst of the absolute worst prior coworkers.

Actually, beyond my former work place, one of the biggest issues facing the Sacramento City School District with Distance learning was how many students had no internet access at home. The schools gave them all lap tops but they were useless. They equipped buses with WiFi as mobile hot spots and parked them during the school day in areas with the highest concentration of students so the students could do their remote classes.
I think there are FAR more folks with no internet access than you might expect. https://www.scusd.edu/e-connections-post/new-wifi-bus-program-beginning-may-4

 

[prestoncaldwell]

We aren't quite there yet, but I've got a theater kid....practices all hours of the day and night. He's a techie, too so even if he isn't in the show, they still want him. He played a couple of sports over the years - theater is just as bad.


As to what I always said I'd never do.....NO DRUMS!!!!! What did my youngest get for Christmas after his music teacher told my husband he was a prodigy? (I thought there was a separate drum playing smilie, but apparently you get the whole band - if he isn't drumming, he's beat boxing and he and his guitar playing brother fight over the one amp constantly so I guess it fits).

Buy another amp and reap the rewards of the next sibling sensation.

 

[jaybirdsmommy]

Buy another amp and reap the rewards of the next sibling sensation.

The neighbors would hate us.

They actually had 2 but one caught on fire.

 

[prestoncaldwell]

one caught on fire.

Wow, that's one heckuva guitarist! images of Back to the Future come to my mind.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Actually, beyond my former work place, one of the biggest issues facing the Sacramento City School District with Distance learning was how many students had no internet access at home. The schools gave them all lap tops but they were useless. They equipped buses with WiFi as mobile hot spots and parked them during the school day in areas with the highest concentration of students so the students could do their remote classes.
I think there are FAR more folks with no internet access than you might expect. https://www.scusd.edu/e-connections-post/new-wifi-bus-program-beginning-may-4

I'm well aware..it's actually one of the things I talked about for my state during the early days of the pandemic (actually I talked about that quite a lot). My governor had to inject millions to get more infrastructure for that. But remember we're talking about your coworkers. Not distance learning, not school buses, not students. What does the above have to do with anything that we're talking about. Not to mention if your stance is the plight of the people you may want to change your tone in how you talk about your coworkers (which again was the topic).

Here's a reminder:

Actually, my former employer was shocked to learn when they shifted us to remote work almost two years ago at many employees had no computer or internet at home.

And based on your many prior conversations we know that the majority of your prior coworkers were under 30. I'm unaware but are you trying to say your coworkers were in high school?? (I'm jesting because I know you're not). I also gave the caveat multiple times..unless they couldn't afford it. So if you're trying to say that there's no internet access for the 20 year olds at your prior workplace due to financial issues it would fall under the caveat I said multiple times over.

 

[debster812]

DH and I had no idea what to expect with DS. We would up being all in with soccer. He started playing town rec at 5, graduated to town travel at 9, joined his club at 11, played for his club through high school, played for his high school, and played for his college team. The craziest trips were the weekend back to backs where the boys would play a team in Burlington VT and Ottawa, Ontario back to back over a weekend (we're from Mass). But we've been all over New England, some other parts of the country, and to the UK with his club team, and his college teammates are still his closest friends.

 

[tvguy]

I'm well aware..it's actually one of the things I talked about for my state during the early days of the pandemic (actually I talked about that quite a lot). My governor had to interject millions to get more infrastructure for that. But remember we're talking about your coworkers. Not distance learning, not school buses, not students. What does the above have to do with anything that we're talking about. Not to mention if your stance is the plight of the people you may want to change your tone in how you talk about your coworkers (which again was the topic).

Here's a reminder:


And based on your many prior conversations we know that the majority of your prior coworkers were under 30. I'm unaware but are you trying to say your coworkers were in high school?? (I'm jesting because I know you're not). I also gave the caveat multiple times..unless they couldn't afford it. So if you're trying to say that there's no internet access for the 20 year olds at your prior workplace due to financial issues it would fall under the caveat I said multiple times over.

So you're just yanking my chain. But there is still a digital divide. And no, not ALL my former co-workers who had no internet at home were under 30. At least one was 68.